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  1. #361  
    ppvsp, Your error is that you are connecting the OTG Cable to one of the DOWNSTREAM ports of the Hub.

    The OTG Cable MUST be connected to the square USB B Connector (UPSTREAM Port) on the Hub using what you call the Printer Cable.

    The Hub must be Powered from its mains PSU.

    The Keyboard must be connected to one of the Downstream Ports

    If that doesn't work, check that the +5V has continuity from the upstream to the downstream ports of the Hub.

    EDIT: In your Y Cable setup, disconnect the Hub and throw it away. Now connect the Keyboard to the Y Cable using a USB A Female to Female adapter. That will work.
    Last edited by Wheel_nut; 10/25/2011 at 08:21 PM. Reason: Added Y Cable configuration.
  2. #362  
    Quote Originally Posted by plgnply View Post
    EDIT
    I have not tried a keyboard with this setup but when I get my TP back from warranty service I will give it a go just to see.
    Just a follow-up: I tested my setup (ogt plug adapter, usb y cable, emergency aa battery charger, dell standard usb keyboard) on my wifes TP and it worked.

    It sounds like wheelnut might be on to something with your setup that includes the powered hub. Hopefully you're able to get it working with wn's advice.
  3. #363  
    Okay folks, it turns out I have a 'cheap' USB hub (disassembled), and can confirm what Wheel_nut said - that the 5 V lines on all of the connections are wired together, allowing one to inject 5 V into the 'A' side of the circuit from the 'B' side.

    For folks like Wheel_nut who know what they are doing, that's fine. For folks like me who know what they are doing, but have a history of reversing wires by accident, that's not good. The potential is there to end up with two 5 V power supplies shorted out in series through the hub. Ick. But again, as long as one knows what's going on, that's fine.

    The powered hub I normally use has several features (PS/2 ports, actual serial and parallel ports, ethernet, optical audio out, mic jack, 1 A USB ports, and standard 500mA USB ports). It's really a Targus USB dock for laptops without the video. That hub does not seem to allow the 5 V from the 'B' side to appear on the 'A' side.

    So both Wheel_nut and I agree that 5 V is needed on the 'A' side for the touchpad. It's just that his hub allows that 5 V to come from somewhere that mine doesn't.

    I've got another experiment to do here, and then I may even make another attempt to help out.
  4. #364  
    Okay, here's another situation that can come up. Not all hotplugging events through a hub are picked up by the Touchpad. In the case of my Targus hub, once the keyboard is recognized, I can unplug the keyboard from the hub, and *not* have the on screen keyboard reappear. I can plug the keyboard back in and continue to use it, but the Touchpad is blissfully unaware that the keyboard was gone for awhile.

    I presume that means that it is possible to connect a hub to the Touchpad first, and then when the keyboard is connected, the Touchpad ignores it, at minimum.

    So, here's my recommendation for those of you using a hub that have followed all of the instructions but still aren't getting good results: plug the keyboard into the hub first, and then plug the hub into the OTG cable as the *last* step. Which means have the OTG cable plugged into the Touchpad before plugging anything into the OTG cable.

    If you have the big three X programs already installed (Xecutah, XServer, and XTerm), it is possible to verify that the OTG cable is triggering the USB 'A' stuff in the Touchpad. Before plugging the OTG cable into the Touchpad, fire up XTerm, and type the following at the Unix Prompt:

    MyPad root # tail -f /var/log/messages

    This will print a live report of the Touchpad's messages file to the screen.

    Next, insert the OTG cable into the Touchpad without anything else plugged into it. If the cable works for OTG, some messages should immediately appear beginning with:

    Qualcomm On-Chip EHCI Host Controller
    new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1

    and probably ending with:

    usb usb1: SerialNumber msm_hsusb_host.0
    hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found
    hub 1-0:1.0: 1 port detected
    msm_otg_suspend: usb in low power mode

    Unless you get messages like that right after plugging in the OTG cable all by itself, I bet the cable is the problem.
  5. #365  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeighWatt View Post
    Okay, here's another situation that can come up. Not all hotplugging events through a hub are picked up by the Touchpad. In the case of my Targus hub, once the keyboard is recognized, I can unplug the keyboard from the hub, and *not* have the on screen keyboard reappear. I can plug the keyboard back in and continue to use it, but the Touchpad is blissfully unaware that the keyboard was gone for awhile.

    I presume that means that it is possible to connect a hub to the Touchpad first, and then when the keyboard is connected, the Touchpad ignores it, at minimum.

    So, here's my recommendation for those of you using a hub that have followed all of the instructions but still aren't getting good results: plug the keyboard into the hub first, and then plug the hub into the OTG cable as the *last* step. Which means have the OTG cable plugged into the Touchpad before plugging anything into the OTG cable.

    If you have the big three X programs already installed (Xecutah, XServer, and XTerm), it is possible to verify that the OTG cable is triggering the USB 'A' stuff in the Touchpad. Before plugging the OTG cable into the Touchpad, fire up XTerm, and type the following at the Unix Prompt:

    MyPad root # tail -f /var/log/messages

    This will print a live report of the Touchpad's messages file to the screen.

    Next, insert the OTG cable into the Touchpad without anything else plugged into it. If the cable works for OTG, some messages should immediately appear beginning with:

    Qualcomm On-Chip EHCI Host Controller
    new USB bus registered, assigned bus number 1

    and probably ending with:

    usb usb1: SerialNumber msm_hsusb_host.0
    hub 1-0:1.0: USB hub found
    hub 1-0:1.0: 1 port detected
    msm_otg_suspend: usb in low power mode

    Unless you get messages like that right after plugging in the OTG cable all by itself, I bet the cable is the problem.
    seighwat

    this seems to be interesting and promising. Will try my cables and update you on the results
  6. #366  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheel_nut View Post
    ppvsp, Your error is that you are connecting the OTG Cable to one of the DOWNSTREAM ports of the Hub.

    The OTG Cable MUST be connected to the square USB B Connector (UPSTREAM Port) on the Hub using what you call the Printer Cable.

    The Hub must be Powered from its mains PSU.

    The Keyboard must be connected to one of the Downstream Ports

    If that doesn't work, check that the +5V has continuity from the upstream to the downstream ports of the Hub.

    EDIT: In your Y Cable setup, disconnect the Hub and throw it away. Now connect the Keyboard to the Y Cable using a USB A Female to Female adapter. That will work.
    Hi WN

    I have already tried this connection before by plugging in printer cable usb-a to otg cable and it dint work. Nevertheless I will try it again and update you with results
  7. #367  
    Quote Originally Posted by ppvsp View Post
    Hi WN

    I have already tried this connection before by plugging in printer cable usb-a to otg cable and it dint work. Nevertheless I will try it again and update you with results
    Ppvsp, I don't think you get it!

    1) The cable plugged into the TouchPad MUST be an OTG Cable

    3) If you are using a Hub, the Hub MUST be Powered AND MUST supply +5V to the Upstream Port

    2) The Hub UPSTREAM Port MUST be connected to the OTG Cable

    4) The Keyboard or other dependent device must be plugged into the Hub BEFORE the Hub is connected to the OTG Cable.

    You seem to be trying a random order and set of connections and are likely to damage your TouchPad.

    Do we have a language barrier here?
  8. #368  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheel_nut View Post
    Ppvsp, I don't think you get it!

    1) The cable plugged into the TouchPad MUST be an OTG Cable

    3) If you are using a Hub, the Hub MUST be Powered AND MUST supply +5V to the Upstream Port

    2) The Hub UPSTREAM Port MUST be connected to the OTG Cable

    4) The Keyboard or other dependent device must be plugged into the Hub BEFORE the Hub is connected to the OTG Cable.

    You seem to be trying a random order and set of connections and are likely to damage your TouchPad.

    Do we have a language barrier here?
    Wheel_nut, I think he gets it. I believe he did try what you suggested, and found it didn't work, possibly for a variety of reasons, but possibly because his hub meets the safety precaution of not letting voltage from the USB-B side appear on the USB-A side, as I see it.


    I'm recommending that we check out the points of possible failure, the easiest first. And that first one is to see if his Touchpad is responding to the OTG cable itself with no other inputs.

    BTW, speaking of random order, in your haste you've got step 3 before step 2 above. I can also tell you that step 3 is false, because even though I have a fancy dock, the basic usb function of it works without any power beyond that supplied to the OTG cable side.
  9. #369  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheel_nut View Post
    Ppvsp, I don't think you get it!

    1) The cable plugged into the TouchPad MUST be an OTG Cable

    3) If you are using a Hub, the Hub MUST be Powered AND MUST supply +5V to the Upstream Port

    2) The Hub UPSTREAM Port MUST be connected to the OTG Cable

    4) The Keyboard or other dependent device must be plugged into the Hub BEFORE the Hub is connected to the OTG Cable.

    You seem to be trying a random order and set of connections and are likely to damage your TouchPad.

    Do we have a language barrier here?
    Hi WheelNut,

    Sorry if i have ****ed you off with my questions. But actually i was trying to tell you in my earlier post that i have tried the connection before and it didnt work. May be that time i missed the sequence. Please check my initial post #350.

    Later in reply to mypost Seighwatt replied (#351, #354) that may be the USB-B side of my HUB might not be getting the power and that could be the reason why my TP didnt recognize the keyboard.

    May be my sequence is wrong!! Should i interchange the step 5 & 6 in my sequence listed in post #350 ??

    Also today i tried your Y cable solution. But it didnt work.

    1. Connect thin wire of Y cable to laptop usb
    2. Connect the thick wire one end (from this end the thin usb wire extends) USB-A to OTG cable
    3. Connect the other end of the thick wire USB-A to USB female to USB female connector
    4. Connect the keyboard to the other side of the USB female connector
    5. Finally connect the OTG micro USB to touchpad

    Hope i didnt do any mistake. Still it didnt work.

    As per Seigwatt earlier reply, i have done the tail -f /var/log/messages before and after the OTG connection.

    I am uploading the photos. Let me know if there is an issue with my Y cable since i see error in the message that "May be the USB cable bad".

    Also i observed that the keyboard is not LIT.

    1.jpg -- before OTG cable is connected
    2.jpg -- after OTG cable inserted into touchpad without any other connections to the OTG cable
    3.jpg -- after i connected the USB Y cable to the OTG cable female end (i have already connected the keyboard to the Y cable using the USB female to female connector)
    4.jpg -- another screenshot of the error

    LASTLY, I will try your USB HUB solution and upload the results.

    Also please explain me on how to know whether my USB-B plug of HUB getting 5V power and other ports are also getting this voltage as I dont know how to check this. The only way i tried to know about this is connect the hub to the laptop (with printer cable) and connect keyboard directly to the USB-A (downstream) port of HUB and saw my laptop recognizing the keyboard and keyboard is LIT. I was able to type with my keyboard. Does this mean the downstream ports getting power?

    Regards
    Attached Images Attached Images
  10. #370  
    Quote Originally Posted by ppvsp View Post
    1. Connect thin wire of Y cable to laptop usb
    2. Connect the thick wire one end (from this end the thin usb wire extends) USB-A to OTG cable
    3. Connect the other end of the thick wire USB-A to USB female to USB female connector
    4. Connect the keyboard to the other side of the USB female connector
    5. Finally connect the OTG micro USB to touchpad

    Hope i didnt do any mistake. Still it didnt work.

    As per Seigwatt earlier reply, i have done the tail -f /var/log/messages before and after the OTG connection.
    <snip>

    Looks like your OTG cable is fine - something else is happening.

    You've got everything connected properly; let's just try changing the order that the connections take place.

    Step minus one (just before liftoff): if you have the actual charger handy for the Touchpad, can we use that instead of the laptop to power the keyboard? If there was a good reason not to do that, please remind me, as I must have missed it.

    First (step zero), on battery power, let's turn the Touchpad all the way off, and then back on again. That should make sure that the hardware is completely reset.

    Now let's try this:

    1. Connect the 'other end' of the thick wire USB-A to USB female to USB female connector (same way as before).

    2. Connect the keyboard to the other side of the USB female connector (same as before).

    3. Connect the OTG micro USB to touchpad. The idea is that this will turn on the USB hub in the Touchpad first, before anything else is connected.

    4. Connect thin wire of Y cable to the Touchpad Charger (or the laptop usb, if necessary, but I'm concerned that may be where we have a problem). This should give power to the keyboard. The keyboard probably isn't going to light up - it probably needs to handshake with the Touchpad first, and even then, one may have to press the NumLock key before the Numlock LED comes on. Also note that NumLock probably will only turn the light on, and send a '%' to the Touchpad. No, I don't know why. Back to business:

    5. Finally, connect the thick wire from the end the thin usb wire extends) USB-A to OTG cable.

    If you are using the laptop for power, and it doesn't work, my suspicion is that either the laptop is turned off (your picture shows the lid closed, I think, but I don't know if you had it up earlier), or the laptop is somehow sensing the other connections, and doing something funny to the voltage levels. That's why I really think you should use the charger. The laptop USB is also probably rated at 500mA, while the Touchpad charger is rated at 2000mA (2 Amps).

    Good luck! Let's see if we can get this to work!
  11. #371  
    SeighWatt,

    I didn't mean to sound irate, rather, I was trying to illustrate the insanity of some of the connections tried. For example, Plugging a Laptop (Host) USB Port AND the TouchPad OTG Cable into Downstream ports of a a POWERED Hub is patently hazardous! You have TWO Hosts and Hub Host , two of which are suppluing +5V crowbar'd together and that is a recipe for smoke!

    Ppvsp, Until you are able to test for Voltage using a multimeter, I would suggest that you set aside your Hub rig.

    Now, Your Y Cable setup in your fifth picture looks good. If you plug your Keyboard into the USB Female adapter and then plug the OTG Cable into the TouchPad, it should work (Assuming that the Laptop is supplying power at the USB Port).

    p.s. The TouchPad USB Low Power Mode indicated that the OTG cable is NOT Powered.

    p.p.s Where are you? It may be easier to send you a working rig.
  12. #372  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheel_nut View Post

    p.s. The TouchPad USB Low Power Mode indicated that the OTG cable is NOT Powered.
    Actually, that isn't my experience. The port doesn't *stay* out of low power mode until the keyboard is connected. When the keyboard is disconnected, it returns to low power, even though the charger is still connected through the Y-cable and the OTG cable.
    Last edited by SeighWatt; 10/26/2011 at 06:30 PM. Reason: closed the quote box
  13. #373  
    Quote Originally Posted by SeighWatt View Post
    <snip>

    Looks like your OTG cable is fine - something else is happening.

    You've got everything connected properly; let's just try changing the order that the connections take place.

    Step minus one (just before liftoff): if you have the actual charger handy for the Touchpad, can we use that instead of the laptop to power the keyboard? If there was a good reason not to do that, please remind me, as I must have missed it.

    First (step zero), on battery power, let's turn the Touchpad all the way off, and then back on again. That should make sure that the hardware is completely reset.

    Now let's try this:

    1. Connect the 'other end' of the thick wire USB-A to USB female to USB female connector (same way as before).

    2. Connect the keyboard to the other side of the USB female connector (same as before).

    3. Connect the OTG micro USB to touchpad. The idea is that this will turn on the USB hub in the Touchpad first, before anything else is connected.

    4. Connect thin wire of Y cable to the Touchpad Charger (or the laptop usb, if necessary, but I'm concerned that may be where we have a problem). This should give power to the keyboard. The keyboard probably isn't going to light up - it probably needs to handshake with the Touchpad first, and even then, one may have to press the NumLock key before the Numlock LED comes on. Also note that NumLock probably will only turn the light on, and send a '%' to the Touchpad. No, I don't know why. Back to business:

    5. Finally, connect the thick wire from the end the thin usb wire extends) USB-A to OTG cable.

    If you are using the laptop for power, and it doesn't work, my suspicion is that either the laptop is turned off (your picture shows the lid closed, I think, but I don't know if you had it up earlier), or the laptop is somehow sensing the other connections, and doing something funny to the voltage levels. That's why I really think you should use the charger. The laptop USB is also probably rated at 500mA, while the Touchpad charger is rated at 2000mA (2 Amps).

    Good luck! Let's see if we can get this to work!
    Seighwatt,

    Thanks for your updates. I currently dont have the touchpad charger PSU with me right now. I will try to test this tomorrow.. Actually when i took the photo the laptop lid was closed but i tried the solution when the laptop is on. It didnt work.

    The problem is if i connect the thin wire to the TP PSU charger its very difficult for me to connect to the power mains.. i need to get the power cord extension..

    Regards
  14. #374  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheel_nut View Post
    SeighWatt,

    I didn't mean to sound irate, rather, I was trying to illustrate the insanity of some of the connections tried. For example, Plugging a Laptop (Host) USB Port AND the TouchPad OTG Cable into Downstream ports of a a POWERED Hub is patently hazardous! You have TWO Hosts and Hub Host , two of which are suppluing +5V crowbar'd together and that is a recipe for smoke!

    Ppvsp, Until you are able to test for Voltage using a multimeter, I would suggest that you set aside your Hub rig.

    Now, Your Y Cable setup in your fifth picture looks good. If you plug your Keyboard into the USB Female adapter and then plug the OTG Cable into the TouchPad, it should work (Assuming that the Laptop is supplying power at the USB Port).

    p.s. The TouchPad USB Low Power Mode indicated that the OTG cable is NOT Powered.

    p.p.s Where are you? It may be easier to send you a working rig.
    wheel_nut,

    I live in SFO. What do you mean by working RIG? You are planning to send me links to all the working components or asking me to order the components.. Sorry i couldnt decipher.

    Rgds
  15. #375  
    Quote Originally Posted by ppvsp View Post
    Seighwatt,

    Thanks for your updates. I currently dont have the touchpad charger PSU with me right now. I will try to test this tomorrow.. Actually when i took the photo the laptop lid was closed but i tried the solution when the laptop is on. It didnt work.

    The problem is if i connect the thin wire to the TP PSU charger its very difficult for me to connect to the power mains.. i need to get the power cord extension..

    Regards
    Sounds good! I've just remembered a situation I was in once where my laptop didn't supply power to a USB port when I thought it should have, so there may be some bizarre technical reason why it isn't working as expected. Hopefully it will work with the HP PSU.

    Extension cords, power strips, and those little plastic safety plugs are my friends. Oh yeah, UPS's too!
  16. #376  
    Quote Originally Posted by ppvsp View Post
    wheel_nut,

    I live in SFO. What do you mean by working RIG? You are planning to send me links to all the working components or asking me to order the components.. Sorry i couldnt decipher.

    Rgds
    I was hoping that you were on this side of the Atlantic and was considering sending you my working rig in a jiffy bag.

    A couple of thoughts:

    1) What Keyboard are you using? It has to be a very simple USB Keyboard ... nothing fancy with Multimedia function keys or other bells and whistles. Have you tried another keyboard?

    2) have you tried to mount a USB Pen Drive using the Y Cable setup?
  17. #377  
    Hi,
    I just got all my cables for this and I think my power supply is not sufficient. It's providing 5V at 750mA.
    I'm getting this in /var/log/messages when I plug in the OTG (power already supplied):
    2011-10-27T04:30:52.838050Z [1621] webos-device kern.info kernel: [ 1621.743748] usb 1-1: rejected 1 configuration due to insufficient available bus power


    Can someone confirm my suspicions before I go trudging around looking for a 5V 1A power supply?

    Cheers.

    EDIT: nevermind - tried another microSD card reader and it worked first go
    Last edited by dkgiles; 10/27/2011 at 12:24 AM.
  18. #378  
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheel_nut View Post
    I was hoping that you were on this side of the Atlantic and was considering sending you my working rig in a jiffy bag.

    A couple of thoughts:

    1) What Keyboard are you using? It has to be a very simple USB Keyboard ... nothing fancy with Multimedia function keys or other bells and whistles. Have you tried another keyboard?

    2) have you tried to mount a USB Pen Drive using the Y Cable setup?
    Wheel Nut,

    Thank you so much and I really appreciate your consideration of shipping the stuff to me. I was using a DELL keyboard which has multi-media keys (media play, forward, rewind etc buttons). Its in my office and they are newer basic+ keyboards. I will try to find another keyboard and see if i will be successful or not.

    2. I havent tried the USB pen drive solution since i thought i will be successful with this immediate existing devices. I will try to carry my thumb drive tomorrow along with my TP PSU and will update you the results.

    Thanks a lot to you guys for helping me through this process.
  19. #379  
    Quote Originally Posted by ppvsp View Post
    Wheel Nut,

    Thank you so much and I really appreciate your consideration of shipping the stuff to me. I was using a DELL keyboard which has multi-media keys (media play, forward, rewind etc buttons). Its in my office and they are newer basic+ keyboards. I will try to find another keyboard and see if i will be successful or not.
    My bet is that the keyboard is fine, and that the problem is the power supply (occasionally, I win my bets. Keeps me humble, otherwise).

    I've even had a PS/2 multimedia keyboard (from Dell, also) work, using my dock.
  20. #380  
    SeighWatt, The two causes are interdependent. The more complex Keyboards require more current and with a dubious power source, the multimedia keyboard may be exacerbating the power source issue.

    As an aside, many Laptops shut down the USB Ports when inactive to save power. There is a setting in the device Properties which allows you to override this but rather than chase this red herring, it is easier to try a known power source.

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