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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by cashmonee View Post
    People are still trying to push the "make money off of apps" idea? Look no further than Apple to show that scenario is simply not possible. iTunes Store/App Store is a mostly break even proposition, always has been. While they may turn a slight profit, it is only a blip on the radar, and certainly not enough to subsidize a tablet. HP is writing off

    Amazon is different because they are not using just apps. They are making money off of their entire store which is obviously much more substantial than what Apple offers, and has many more places to make the money necessary to subsidize a tablet. Even then, the Amazon tablet is rumored at $250 with not top-of-the-line specs. In other words, only a slight subsidy. Even at $250, most tablets are not good enough to pick over the iPad. Certainly not a tablet that needs several tweaks and overclocking to make it usable.
    Maybe because when you pay so much for a device you expect it to have everything out of the box? I know some folks complained that the Touchpad did not have a lot out of the box at the original price point.

    When you pay less for an item you have the money to spend on tricking it out. Import car tuners do this all the time. Instead of paying $60,000-100,000 for a good sports car, they pay $25,000-30,000 for cheap one and add another $20,000 in upgrades. Also, how many cheap cars have you seen rolling around with thousands of dollars worth of additional stereo equipment or expensive rims added? A lot right? Don't see to many expensive cars with additional stereo equipment or rims unless the owner is a rapper.

    Most of the folks that I know who bought Macs don't get a lot of software for them. They usually come with a fair amount of software installed already. Most PC owners are a little more liberal with buying software because we paid $500-1000 less for a similar spec device.

    How many XBox owners would pay $1000 for an XBox and still buy 10-20 games? Now how many XBox owners will pay $300 for the device and still buy 10-20 games? I bet the number for the second sentence is higher.

    Apple wanted to be the Ferrari of computers and most Ferrari owners don't make changes to their "perfect" car.

    Edit: I apologize for this being so long (lazy Sunday), but I just remembered a quote that a friend of mine made. She has a $2700 custom MacBook Pro. When I asked her why should spent so much money on it she said she "wanted something nice and something she didn't have to mess with all the time". She got her MacBook "just right" and she did not plan on making any changes to it. She was happy that it had "everything she needed". Funny thing is that she was looking for an Android tablet with a lot of storage to "trick out" and she thought it was sacrilegious to do the same with any of her Mac products except her "cheap little $100 iPhone".

    I have also noticed lately that Apple's commercials for their iOS products are more geared towards what people can do with them out of the box (Facetime, video editing, playing movies, and music) and not towards apps. Now I know why. Besides, most people I know buy an iPhone to replace their old iPod just because it is the best portable music player out there. They don't really care about apps.
    Last edited by k4ever; 09/04/2011 at 09:30 AM.
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  2. cashmonee's Avatar
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    #102  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonesey View Post
    Are you just making this up as you go? Look at the Economy page of the current issue of Time and you'll see some real numbers regarding the ecosystem that is built around Apple products. $2.5 billion in earnings by app designers since 2008. Quote "It has made Apple a player in music, retail and publishing, among other sectors... The consumer-technology world that Jobs shaped is one in which dueling ecosystems- Google, Facebook, Amazon- fight to form their own consumer tribes, none more fiercely loyal than Apple's"

    iTunes and the App store are not a break even proposition. Apple makes a huge profit from software and media consumption.
    I'm not actually making this up. The App Store may have generated $2.5 billion in earnings for developers. That is not Apple. Also, just because Apple is a major player in content delivery, that doesn't mean they are rolling in dough from iTunes and the App Store. Read this article:

    The iTunes Store: Profit Machine - NYTimes.com

    The author makes the same argument you do, but be sure to read the update. The key point is that credit card companies have a minimum fee of 25 cents for each transaction. That cuts deeply into Apple's portion of the app. Don't forget that the 30% also pays for infrastructure, delivery, and marketing. Lastly, remember that there are millions of free apps that generate no money for Apple, but still have the same costs associated. The consensus since the inception of iTunes is that Apple's content delivery makes little money, and is only there to push the hardware. Steve Jobs himself said the App Store was designed to break even.

    k4ever, I am not sure what your comment has to do with mine. I'll just reiterate that tablets are not consoles. Consoles have a life cycle of significantly longer than tablets, and while they initially lose money, they do turn a profit after a few years because the cost to build goes down, something tablet makers cannot count on. Also, I don't care how much the tablet cost, it needs to be ready to do what it says it will do out of the box, and do it well. A device that doesn't will fail. The Touchpad is not a good experience out of the box and is only average at best after tweaking. That is why it failed, not cost.
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    #103  
    I have these issues too. Stock TP, latest updates. Sometimes I have one browser card open and scrolling down to read a full artjcle it freezes fir about 10 seconds. I'm not sur what's going on as the page should already been rendered. This happens in other apps like facebook. I'll test with turning off logging.
  4. #104  
    hmm never seen this, 1.5 w/ uber on a 16gb.. had since launch.
  5. #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Oh4Sh0 View Post
    hmm never seen this, 1.5 w/ uber on a 16gb.. had since launch.
    The precentral.net review commented on it. Not as bad as the OP, but it's still there. It still happens on mine.

    Hopefully, if HP follows through with what was reported, an update will fix this and other issues.

    Keyboard shortcuts please?
  6. #106  
    I have a 32gb and all I have done is get the webOS update and turn off the background logging. I didn't do anything else to it and I'm not having any of the problems you describe.
  7. #107  
    mine never freezes, but some apps take a few seconds to load. Mail, photo app, adobe, etc.

    I'm oc'ed to 1.7 with all patches
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    The main issue with Webos is just how slow it is and you having to rely on patches and overclocking for improvements . It's still slow after doing these things so I can't imagine imagine how frustrating it is to use the device without doing it. What were they thinking when they released the tp in the current state? In this time people want things instantly without having to wait over 10 seconds for a pdf reader to load.

    When I got my EVO 3d which has the same specs as the tp I was impressed with how fast it operated. I didnt get that feeling with the tp.
    I'm sure these people still use aol. WebOS isnt open source and I love having control over my device. Linux and webOS are my new hobbies, so I suppose tweaking and playing with my tablet is more fun than just using it. I own a iphone, I know apple has its pros over webOS, but since iv gotten my tablet I barely use it unless I get a call. I actually tried to swipe a safari page into oblivion (swiping up) yesterday when I used my phone at the grocery store. If people are too lazy or scared to do the upgrades, patches, and oc`ing then it sucks to be them, its not rocket science. Took me 3 min to do my husbands touchpad when he got his. I'm a freaking nurse, with hardly any webOS experience. Big thanks to All my fellow pre central members for all your support and advise! My TP is stupid fast, and I'm forever tweaking it, to MY liking, not Steve jobs, whoever the ceo is now.
    Last edited by vella_; 09/05/2011 at 12:34 PM.
    Dark Helmet: So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.''`-Space Balls

    What doesn't kill you now, is probably a cyborg sent from the future to protect you.

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  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by vella_ View Post
    I'm sure these people still use aol. WebOS is open source and I love having control over my device. Linux and webOS are my new hobbies, so I suppose tweaking and playing with my tablet is more fun than just using it. I own a iphone, I know apple has its pros over webOS, but since iv gotten my tablet I barely use it unless I get a call. I actually tried to swipe a safari page into oblivion (swiping up) yesterday when I used my phone at the grocery store. If people are too lazy or scared to do the upgrades, patches, and oc`ing then it sucks to be them, its not rocket science. Took me 3 min to do my husbands touchpad when he got his. I'm a freaking nurse, with hardly any webOS experience. Big thanks to All my fellow pre central members for all your support and advise! My TP is stupid fast, and I'm forever tweaking it, to MY liking, not Steve jobs, w/e the he'll ceo is now.
    What's there to tweak after you install the patches and what not? All the patches are on there, it's overclocked, logging disabled, now what?
  10. #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by beardedspoooon View Post
    What's there to tweak after you install the patches and what not? All the patches are on there, it's overclocked, logging disabled, now what?
    I have ibuntu on here so I'm playing with that mostly. And trying out the new tethering that just got put into action, playing with new testing kernels, and often troubleshooting when I pushed my TP too far, 1.9 was too much...heh..and patiently awaiting new patches and apps that I can play with too.
    Dark Helmet: So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.''`-Space Balls

    What doesn't kill you now, is probably a cyborg sent from the future to protect you.

  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    Just so know webOS is not open source. I wish it was so someone can actually get it working nice and snappy.
    Should HP make webOS open source? | News, Opinion/Editorials |webOSroundup

    typo, mah bad. This is a really interesting article on that debate.
    Dark Helmet: So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb.''`-Space Balls

    What doesn't kill you now, is probably a cyborg sent from the future to protect you.

  12. #112  
    Yes it happens frequently. Maybe if you overclock the thing it might not. But this isn't unique to you or the TouchPad. There's lag. Period.
  13.    #113  
    Quote Originally Posted by Targon View Post
    This is the sort of thread that really really begs for a trollish response. You say you have problems AFTER you install an overclocking kernel and have done this and that, installed various patches, installed apps, etc. Then you do nothing to track down if one of these things may have been the source of the problems.

    The FIRST thing I would do would be to uninstall UberKernel and see if that fixes it. Not every device overclocks equally, and some may not overclock at all(though I doubt it). Doing a WebOS Doctor, and seeing if you still have the problem would be the final test to make sure nothing YOU did is the source of the problems.

    If you look at the car enthusiast market, if you put in a bunch of custom mods and run into trouble, do you say the STOCK car is at fault because after all those mods it doesn't run properly?!? Complaining about a out of the box situation is valid, but complaining after you overclock is another.
    OK, so I apologize for posting and running, but things have been extremely busy lately for me.

    First off, I'm not a troll. The point of this post was two-fold: 1) To try to get some suggestions for fixing my problems, and 2) to try and show those on this forum that are incredibly enamored with webOS why this just wasn't working. I installed 3.0.2 the second I got my tablet out of its box, and installed every patch that everyone in this thread has suggested. EVEN STILL: how is it acceptable to say, "Well, once you install a ton of aftermarket patches that 99% of average consumers don't know about, it's pretty good. A $500 product can't be pretty good. It has to be really good.

    Now, that being said, I do have to admit that I didn't try the most obvious thing: a restart. It seems that made a huge difference. Still, problems linger.

    1) Someone said, "Is your life so busy that you can't wait 5 seconds." It's not 5 seconds. It's wait 5 seconds, then see if it's going to do anything, then after 15 seconds, hit the button again, then wait longer to see if it takes this time. Then, when it doesn't take again, try hitting the button over and over in frustration, and then when it finally takes, it opens two or three of the same thing. This isn't a small usability issue, it's a major one. LUCKILY, it can be partly averted by my now-frequent restarts. However, it's made worse by:

    2) The new second-worst bug that I deal with is when I hit a key or a link and the screen even adjusts to suggest I've clicked something (key animation to press down fires), but nothing actually happens. For example, I'm typing a sentence, and it presses down every key, but one or two don't register. I already type extremely slow on the keyboard to avoid this, but when I get the 5 or 10 second delay (where you're typing, the TP registers it, but doesn't display the letters for 5 or 10 seconds and then pukes them all out at once) I could potentially type a few words before I see that it has skipped a few, and then I have to go back and fix them. Bottom line: if the "key press" animation fires when I press a key, IT SHOULD REGISTER. It's the only feedback I get, so it needs to be accurate. If it isn't going to register, don't press the key. This is just terrible development.

    3) And now for the worst, and most inexcusable issue on this tablet: THIS PIECE OF **** DOESN'T LOAD HALF OF THE FREAKING INTERNET! Go to newegg and try to load up the hard drive page. Can't do it. Fails every time. If you miraculously manage to get to that page, don't run here to post and prove me wrong, try navigating around newegg. It doesn't work. The TP can't render a large portion of the internet. webOS, indeed. Even at $150 it's almost annoying enough to throw it out the window of my moving car sometimes. My wife says it best: she'll go through the trouble to browse around the internet, and then hit a few pages that won't load: not load poorly, just DO NOT LOAD AT ALL (accompanied by an error). The problem is, then she has to open up her laptop for those few pages. Well if that's going to happen every time, eventually it's not worth keeping both devices charged.

    I'm not saying I want to sell my TP: for $150, it is just worth me keeping it, if for no other reason than to rip my DVDs onto it and watch it on flights. I'm not saying webOS is worthless: it's not. It's incredibly fun and intuitive. But these errors are exactly why webOS failed, and why any hardware manufacturer would be insane to buy it. I am sad that nobody could get this to work properly, but it is past its time.

    And please stop accusing me of trolling. First off, I don't care. Second, it's not true. I hope that someone has fixes for these issues, but if not, I will continue using it for the three things I have found useful about it: take notes, listen to music and videos, and check my corporate email.
  14. #114  
    Quote Originally Posted by WrlsFanatic View Post
    OK, so I apologize for posting and running, but things have been extremely busy lately for me.

    First off, I'm not a troll. The point of this post was two-fold: 1) To try to get some suggestions for fixing my problems, and 2) to try and show those on this forum that are incredibly enamored with webOS why this just wasn't working. I installed 3.0.2 the second I got my tablet out of its box, and installed every patch that everyone in this thread has suggested. EVEN STILL: how is it acceptable to say, "Well, once you install a ton of aftermarket patches that 99% of average consumers don't know about, it's pretty good. A $500 product can't be pretty good. It has to be really good.

    Now, that being said, I do have to admit that I didn't try the most obvious thing: a restart. It seems that made a huge difference. Still, problems linger.

    1) Someone said, "Is your life so busy that you can't wait 5 seconds." It's not 5 seconds. It's wait 5 seconds, then see if it's going to do anything, then after 15 seconds, hit the button again, then wait longer to see if it takes this time. Then, when it doesn't take again, try hitting the button over and over in frustration, and then when it finally takes, it opens two or three of the same thing. This isn't a small usability issue, it's a major one. LUCKILY, it can be partly averted by my now-frequent restarts. However, it's made worse by:

    2) The new second-worst bug that I deal with is when I hit a key or a link and the screen even adjusts to suggest I've clicked something (key animation to press down fires), but nothing actually happens. For example, I'm typing a sentence, and it presses down every key, but one or two don't register. I already type extremely slow on the keyboard to avoid this, but when I get the 5 or 10 second delay (where you're typing, the TP registers it, but doesn't display the letters for 5 or 10 seconds and then pukes them all out at once) I could potentially type a few words before I see that it has skipped a few, and then I have to go back and fix them. Bottom line: if the "key press" animation fires when I press a key, IT SHOULD REGISTER. It's the only feedback I get, so it needs to be accurate. If it isn't going to register, don't press the key. This is just terrible development.

    3) And now for the worst, and most inexcusable issue on this tablet: THIS PIECE OF **** DOESN'T LOAD HALF OF THE FREAKING INTERNET! Go to newegg and try to load up the hard drive page. Can't do it. Fails every time. If you miraculously manage to get to that page, don't run here to post and prove me wrong, try navigating around newegg. It doesn't work. The TP can't render a large portion of the internet. webOS, indeed. Even at $150 it's almost annoying enough to throw it out the window of my moving car sometimes. My wife says it best: she'll go through the trouble to browse around the internet, and then hit a few pages that won't load: not load poorly, just DO NOT LOAD AT ALL (accompanied by an error). The problem is, then she has to open up her laptop for those few pages. Well if that's going to happen every time, eventually it's not worth keeping both devices charged.

    I'm not saying I want to sell my TP: for $150, it is just worth me keeping it, if for no other reason than to rip my DVDs onto it and watch it on flights. I'm not saying webOS is worthless: it's not. It's incredibly fun and intuitive. But these errors are exactly why webOS failed, and why any hardware manufacturer would be insane to buy it. I am sad that nobody could get this to work properly, but it is past its time.

    And please stop accusing me of trolling. First off, I don't care. Second, it's not true. I hope that someone has fixes for these issues, but if not, I will continue using it for the three things I have found useful about it: take notes, listen to music and videos, and check my corporate email.
    ??I loaded up newegg cart with $33OO of hard drive products in about 3 minutes using free tether on my pre 2 on the way home from the beach, can't get much better than this.
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    #115  
    if you are not trolling how about changing your topic so something a little more mature. Your topic alone is flame-bait

    oh and btw instead of giving generalities 'this piece of **** doesn't load half the freaking internet' how about giving some REAL examples. Making blanked statements won't help your cause.
  16. #116  
    Issue#3- I think the internet doesnt like you because newegg hard drive page works fine for me as does the overwhelming majority of the internet.
  17.    #117  
    Quote Originally Posted by ccx View Post
    if you are not trolling how about changing your topic so something a little more mature. Your topic alone is flame-bait

    oh and btw instead of giving generalities 'this piece of **** doesn't load half the freaking internet' how about giving some REAL examples. Making blanked statements won't help your cause.
    I did give an example, but it's one of many. Newegg. Move around there, and tell me if it works.

    As for the topic, I was frustrated that day, but the general theme is still true. If I had paid more than $150, I'd be ****ed.
  18. sindizzy's Avatar
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    #118  
    so update to my prior post. I still see the unresponsiveness in my TP, especially when I pull up the browser and start typing my search entry. No joke sometimes it takes 20 seconds for the text to appear. As I'm writing this on occasion it takes about 3 seconds for the words to appear. Not sure why that happens. I don't plan to o/c the device, its stock as it came from the factory. I just got my family another two units and they see the freezing when they browse. I enjoy the device and use it everyday, just the minor freeze issue sometimes ticks me off. I know some folks don't see it but I can guarantee that I see this on a daily basis, even after rebooting. Haven't tried turning off logging so may try that tonite. What are the suggestions for level of logging?
  19. #119  
    Maybe your TP is so advanced that it has become self aware and sees that you are slamming it online on a website dedicated to its further development. Thus it refuses to load the webpages for you. Or maybe you should take 5 minutes out of your day to stop griping and actually.. I dunno, troubleshoot? Maybe download a few simple patches or set the logging to minimal or try OC'ing it. 5 minutes can make a world of difference... or go buy an I-Pad then go on their forums and complain about flash sites not working.
  20. sindizzy's Avatar
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    #120  
    well don't know if that was for me or not but you have the wrong idea. I am a major webOS fan. Have a Pre- and the driver for four TPs in the family. The "griping" that you mention is my attempt to understand why out of the box I have to OC, patch, and otherwise configure the device to stop the freezing. Other users have stated they don't see this with a stock TP. I see this constantly on my device. I am well aware of the things I can do to improve performance but the average users will not know where to start. I know this first hand where some users will not even know how to change their wallpaper. They just want to pick up the device and use it. I can't see myself instructing a family member on how go install preware and then OC the device.
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