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  1. #101  
    If I wasn't totally convinced of the incompetence in the HP executive suites, this whole thing might make sense.

    HP paid what? About 1.2 billion dollars acquiring WebOS? It built about 800k Touchpads, which it tried to sell for too much 8 weeks ago and sold like bricks. So they cut the price first by 50 bucks, then by 100, and then a few days later pull the plug and start the firesale. Losing 207 bucks per unit. They sell out everywhere. They are being resold through back channels at 200-300 dollars per unit. HP announces they'll do another limited run. Figure that means another 400 thousand units. That puts 1.2 million WebOS tablets into the world, at a loss of about 250 million dollars - hella lot of money, but not so much compared to their investment in WebOS - and their WebOS tablet, the Touchpad, has just become the runner up to the iPad, far ahead of any Android tablet.

    The guys at HP are obviously idiots. But they've just massively increased the value of WebOS. It is in a much better position now to attract top notch software developers - it may never come close to the number of Android apps, but it won't be long before the quality and breadth of apps available will be matched. All that means that HP is in a vastly better position to license WebOS to other companies. Isn't that worth $250 million on top of the 1.2 billion plus dollars already invested?

    And of course PSG will be one of the new licensees. Todd Bradley has already said the new spin-off will be making tablets, and you know he will want it to be a WebOS tablet.

    If this fiasco had been planned, it might actually be a brilliant move. But even though we all know it was incompetence, not brilliance, it could very well be the salvation of WebOS.
    pre4 likes this.
  2. #102  
    I just hope that webos doesn't go down in history as being another one of those proprietary OS, of wich the proprietor won't release the source code for unknown reasons. I hope possibly that if hp ends up not using webos that they will release the source code for community developers. I think it would be a great os for tablets and netbooks. Maybe even getting a debian package manager. Hopefully webos doesn't end up becoming like HPUX, something Hp offers as proprietary, closed and not developed by the community to make it better. Sad to say as much as I enjoyed my pre, virgin had a better deal than sprint for unlimted data: $25 mo. Lg optimus does more than the pre on android, no flash though, o'well. Might not have switched if that pre3 had ever come out for sprint.
    I realy enjoyed webos before Hp, time to move on.
  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    The move to sell the PC division is rational.

    The drop in stock price has to do with the fact that Wall Street thinks that HP overpaid Autonomy.
    please reread my post..... The announcements, and actions were irrational. Even at announcement it was "sell or spinoff", "we are exploring all options". You are trying far to hard to defend your initial point. The way this has all rolled out was not that of a rational plan. And the stock loss cannot be individually tied to the purchase, if for only that the purchase was announced with a great loss.

    take away all other actions and decisions, have you listened to the earnings call in its entirety? It was a horrible Charlie foxtrot.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  4. samab's Avatar
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    #104  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    please reread my post..... The announcements, and actions were irrational. Even at announcement it was "sell or spinoff", "we are exploring all options". You are trying far to hard to defend your initial point. The way this has all rolled out was not that of a rational plan. And the stock loss cannot be individually tied to the purchase, if for only that the purchase was announced with a great loss.

    take away all other actions and decisions, have you listened to the earnings call in its entirety? It was a horrible Charlie foxtrot.
    A lot of that has to do with HP CEO has a lot of enemies within the upper ranks --- with all the leaks. So Leo just sprung this decision on them, which creates a cascade of problems.

    HP is disfunctional in their upper management ranks, not irrational.
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    #105  
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Mark View Post
    If I wasn't totally convinced of the incompetence in the HP executive suites, this whole thing might make sense.

    HP paid what? About 1.2 billion dollars acquiring WebOS? It built about 800k Touchpads, which it tried to sell for too much 8 weeks ago and sold like bricks. So they cut the price first by 50 bucks, then by 100, and then a few days later pull the plug and start the firesale. Losing 207 bucks per unit. They sell out everywhere. They are being resold through back channels at 200-300 dollars per unit. HP announces they'll do another limited run. Figure that means another 400 thousand units. That puts 1.2 million WebOS tablets into the world, at a loss of about 250 million dollars - hella lot of money, but not so much compared to their investment in WebOS - and their WebOS tablet, the Touchpad, has just become the runner up to the iPad, far ahead of any Android tablet.

    The guys at HP are obviously idiots. But they've just massively increased the value of WebOS. It is in a much better position now to attract top notch software developers - it may never come close to the number of Android apps, but it won't be long before the quality and breadth of apps available will be matched. All that means that HP is in a vastly better position to license WebOS to other companies. Isn't that worth $250 million on top of the 1.2 billion plus dollars already invested?

    And of course PSG will be one of the new licensees. Todd Bradley has already said the new spin-off will be making tablets, and you know he will want it to be a WebOS tablet.

    If this fiasco had been planned, it might actually be a brilliant move. But even though we all know it was incompetence, not brilliance, it could very well be the salvation of WebOS.
    Which software developer would want to invest in WebOS? The OS has been a rollercoaster ride since day 1 with developers actually jumping ship. I highly doubt HP made 800K touchpads. That's just too much for a new device with so much uncertainty. I don't even think anyone would want to license WebOS. Maybe if the OS was actually ready but in the current state it is still slow, buggy and has no apps. I think HP just realized that they will have to spend a ton of cash to get WebOS up to speed with the current crop of mobile OS.

    Why would I pay a license fee for WebOS when I can get Androd for free or pay Microsoft for WP7 which already has tons of apps and support. I don't understand why HP would ship the TP in the current state it is in. The device runs so slow and if you expect everyone to install preware and a bunch of patches to get things a little smoother you are wrong.
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    #106  
    It can cost 199 or less to make the tablet

    I just posted this but of course a negative post followed, Apple fans I think,
    ALl tablets must cost 400 to make they said basically..............LOL

    Honestly if the apple fans do not go away I think I and others will because its not enjoyable fighting with idiots all the time

    its been said by experts that the wholesale on these tablets at COST is 307 for HP

    I'm saying it could be as low 199 HP cost

    Silly me for thinking there is a way to cut the price

    I guess we all are still paying $3,000 to $5,000 for PC computers
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    #107  
    Its all very well totting up the cost of components and adding on a minimal assembly cost, but that doesn't take into account the millions they spent on R&D which they need to recoup.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
    Pilot 5000 > Pre > Pre2 > Pre3 > Galaxy Nexus
    TouchPad > Galaxy Tab 8.9
  8. #108  
    Quote Originally Posted by RedMist View Post
    Its all very well totting up the cost of components and adding on a minimal assembly cost, but that doesn't take into account the millions they spent on R&D which they need to recoup.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre3 using Forums
    The problem is you have no chance of recouping cost if you bail out after 6 weeks. I've seen enough ideas just in this thread as to how they could have made a better run at things.

    By the time they get to making a move, "in the coming months", someone will have beaten them to that space.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  9. #109  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Apple and Google are also viewed by many as big monopolistic giants that are bad for consumers. Google has more anti-trust lawsuits now than Microsoft ever did. I don't want them either.
    May be true for some, but "one man's monopolistic giant is another man's freedom fighter" ... or something like that.

    The millions who like Apple products don't feel that way about Apple though they may feel that way about Google, likewise in the other direction.

    Like it or not, that is how the game is now played. This is why all of the guys who "just want to sell you a phone" are dead or dying.

    These days, the number of lawsuits against a company is in direct proportion to their level of success (see the patent wars), so that is not a good measure of corporate worth.

    If HP or whatever their mobile unit becomes has success, they will be getting sued too.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  10. samab's Avatar
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    #110  
    Quote Originally Posted by C-Note View Post
    May be true for some, but "one man's monopolistic giant is another man's freedom fighter" ... or something like that.
    A lot of apple fans also own AAPL stocks --- which makes their opinion clouded by dollar signs. I separate myself very clearly. RIM co-CEO's will run the company into the ground if necessary --- great for QNX fans like myself to know that they ain't ever going see a TouchPad'esque ending, maybe a very bad thing for RIMM shareholders.

    It is a fact that even the guy who coined the term "net neutrality" now views Apple as the biggest enemy to net neutrality. People like to paint the carriers as the bogeyman, but that is simply not the case anymore.

    I also don't have much "idealistic" feelings towards the freedom loving open source giants either. For the last 10 years, open source is a tool for IBM, Oracle and even Microsoft to bash each other's proprietary solutions.
    C-Note likes this.
  11. #111  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    A lot of apple fans also own AAPL stocks --- which makes their opinion clouded by dollar signs. I separate myself very clearly. RIM co-CEO's will run the company into the ground if necessary --- great for QNX fans like myself to know that they ain't ever going see a TouchPad'esque ending, maybe a very bad thing for RIMM shareholders.

    It is a fact that even the guy who coined the term "net neutrality" now views Apple as the biggest enemy to net neutrality. People like to paint the carriers as the bogeyman, but that is simply not the case anymore.

    I also don't have much "idealistic" feelings towards the freedom loving open source giants either. For the last 10 years, open source is a tool for IBM, Oracle and even Microsoft to bash each other's proprietary solutions.
    I don't disagree with you at all. I'd rather just buy a phone and choose where I get my other stuff like music and services. That why I'm off the Apple bandwagon, I was a big iTunes fan until I decided I wanted a different MP3 player and couldn't use it with my collection. I don't hate them, their approach is not just for me.

    I see Google going the same way so I'm getting wary of them. (Microsoft has been there for so long it's now hurting them) But all of those companies are making money, and we (in the general sense) worship wealth in this society - NOT innovation.

    (or we'd be talking up the engineers, programmers and other types that actually invented and designed the products... don't get me started on that rant )

    But since they have set the bar for how the game is played, unless someone like HP (or RIM, or someone else) is willing to spend money, smartly of course, but spend real money, they will never see the light of day.

    When CEO's are fired just because they didn't increase profits fast enough, and they are on the 90 day plan to see results, it does not bode well for innovation.

    Movie announcers voice
    : Imagine a world (pause), where there are only two types of smartphones...

    I'd rather not.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
  12. #112  
    The price breaks for bulk make them profitable. Apple and many of these devices aren't much more advanced than they were 10 years ago. In fact my palm tx was much like this touchpad in function just smaller.
    Apple has a bunch of music player faithfuls that don't mind paying for everything. They added a video feature and there music cronies ate it up and let the kid have the old device. 1 buyer two consumers. They added a browser and email to the new version and handme downs again occurred. Apple wasn't huge they just kept adding bits and pieces. What's this little Johnie oh my an ipod with a phone attached. Oh my goodness a camera added now oooooh ahhhh. Basically they stayed true to the original design and added more. Yeah I know that after buying 6 million 4 inch video screens, and batteries, and ear phone jacks the production cost go up every year and each new device has to cost $100 more than last years device. That why they are so good as to give you $16 trade in for a 32 terabyte
    devices that's 3 weeks old. Yes I mock.
    They did one thing and that was to build a product and keep updating it. Slowly but they made a product, got people to like it, kept making a newer version, adding a new feature, and over time one guy showed it to another and another....
    Palm and Compaq made devices, never really moved forward with the hardware, closed out features, sold apps for a lot of money and basically let there users stare at their device until it was no longer useful. They didn't make the browser better, add more apps, or anything. Every couple years though they put out a device, over price it, and kill it in a short time.
    Apple is smart enough to know that a continuously connected umbilical cord to your wallet is good and that the only way to do that is to put out compatable devices, take a big chunk of you dough, let it rise, and have a belly full of your bread. And more importantly sheep grazing on their apps, songs, music, cell phones I think you get the idea.
    I just don't understand why HP and Palm have little brand loyalty do you all?
    Last edited by rreed87139; 10/25/2011 at 03:43 AM.
    UncleVanya likes this.
  13. #113  
    Seasons don't fear the paragraph, and neither should you. That was a bit of a yarn for a first post. You have my undivided attention.
    Due to the cancellation of the penny, I no longer give 2 about anything. I may however, give a nickel
  14. #114  
    Even if HP kept the TP alive at the firesale price point, they would be building a user base of cheap people who most likely wont be dishing out $300+ on the next rendition of the TP/next webOS device. Most people buying these cheapo TP's are people who would never buy a tablet unless it was dirt cheap. That's what I am seeing at least.
    Some of that is true. Although, I see a lot being bought by smart people and then reselling for a profit.

    ET


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
  15. #115  
    Quote Originally Posted by jbg7474 View Post
    Who knows at this point, but their senior leadership would look even more unstable than they already do if they reversed themselves again. Although, if they fired Leo at the same time, that could work.
    Netflix did it.
    They reversed course on Qwickster.

    To err is human.
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