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  1. #41  
    http://www.isuppli.com/Teardowns/News/Pages/HP-TouchPad-Carries-$318-Bill-of-Materials.aspx

    Hmm...I don't see the graphics chip in there anywhere...
  2. #42  
    Then they must have a contract to produce so many units. They have to pay whether they make them or not. might as well get something out of them.
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    #43  
    Not necessarily. If they've already outlaid the cash for the parts, or are contractually committed to do so, the assembly + boxing + shipping may be less than the sale price.
  4. #44  
    they are selling at a loss to get their software out. The best example is xbox 360 and ps3. Both sold at a loss for years. They had to sell at loses because even at that price people questioned the high price and lack of games. Most people have no need for a tablet but they buy cool toys if it's cheap enough. If your an apple fan you line up and buy whatever they tell you without seeing it and for whatever price. I think hp realized this is something only apple fans do. I think hp is buying their way into the market. They may not make tablets or phones but the software on a phone now will sell to everyone with a touchpad. It will spread and hp is counting on it.
  5. #45  
    they are all selling for 250 to 300 on ebay now I think that's the price tablets need to be. People see 499 and 599 and don't even look at it
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    There's nothing in your post to indicate WHY they would continue to sell them at a loss??? They get no real benefit from it at all. A loss is a loss.
    The whole "reconsidering position on hardware development" was the part. That or they want to keep webOS alive, to have it be valuable to licensees or purchasers. Now that webOS has closer to 1million users it probably looks better to samsung than it did when HP dropped the bomb shell.


    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    They did quit. They have done exactly what they said they would do, which is to kill hardware production and focus on the OS. You don't seem to take into account the fact that they must continue to support any TP they sell.
    By quit, I mean stop working on webOS in all manners, and just do the bare minimum to sell it to someone else. HP said that it will discontinue operations for webOS devices. The term operations pretty much implies more than quitting hardware... It sound more like quiting webOS development and everything... I know they since clarified that it was only hardware production, but most people were worried about software updates, the app ecosystem and such. It seems to have survived and still going well based on recent updates and continued work.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    HP did not give you that...
    If you think quckoffice devs spent the time making document editing only to give it away for free on a seemingly dead platform you are wildly mistaken. HP has made it worth their wild, and likely helped develop it.


    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    ...again, how do they profit? A loss is a loss. The most I expect to see from HP is a half-a*sed effort to keep webOS presentable for possible sale or license. If nothing comes of it relatively soon then webOS might get lucky and live out the rest of its days running ATM machines and cash registers.
    Today you were basically proven dead wrong by HP. Also notice how they have not announced the pricing of the new, to-be manufactured Touchpads. I still think the 250-300 price range will pan out.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigwood212 View Post
    they are selling at a loss to get their software out. The best example is xbox 360 and ps3. Both sold at a loss for years. They had to sell at loses because even at that price people questioned the high price and lack of games. Most people have no need for a tablet but they buy cool toys if it's cheap enough. If your an apple fan you line up and buy whatever they tell you without seeing it and for whatever price. I think hp realized this is something only apple fans do. I think hp is buying their way into the market. They may not make tablets or phones but the software on a phone now will sell to everyone with a touchpad. It will spread and hp is counting on it.
    It's been said before that that is not a good example. 360 and PS3 basically require a person to purchase software sold at high margins. Not the case for tablets and apps.
  8. #48  
    Pilot 1000 > PalmPilot Pro > Handspring Visor > Treo 700p > XV6700 > HTC-6800 > Pre- > FrankenPre2
  9. #49  
    Hahahah. Thanks for pointing that out.
  10. #50  
    <threads merged and moved>
  11. #51  
    Considered? Yes.
    Considering? No
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  12. #52  
    I wonder at what point in production does it get cheeper to produce. Like the first million really cost "x" because development costs are included with manufacturing and parts costs, but there must be some magic number that once surpassed the profit margin increases or your initial startup costs are already paid off. I don't know if it applies since so many sold at a loss but I wonder if the sell 4 million at 99 vs 1 million at 400 if that covers costs. I know its fuzz but I wonder about this.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by kill_Dano View Post
    The whole "reconsidering position on hardware development" was the part. That or they want to keep webOS alive, to have it be valuable to licensees or purchasers. Now that webOS has closer to 1million users it probably looks better to samsung than it did when HP dropped the bomb shell.
    It probably *does* look better to Samsung or whoever BUT I think that is merely a side effect of HP's attempt to rid themselves of the hardware as quickly as possible. I don't think anyone at HP expected the resulting tsunami of interest.

    If HP had really been interested in wooing potential licensees, they wouldn't have cast such a dark cloud over webOS by so publicly trashing/dumping it before they even found a suitor.

    Of course, Leo wants to kill webOS and the PSG group would probably have been more than happy to continue on with it.

    I suppose if PSG were to completely split themselves off from HP proper and gain some autonomy (as HP gains Autonomy, har har) you might see more tablets... the only question is who ends up with webOS.

    By quit, I mean stop working on webOS in all manners, and just do the bare minimum to sell it to someone else. HP said that it will discontinue operations for webOS devices. The term operations pretty much implies more than quitting hardware... It sound more like quiting webOS development and everything... I know they since clarified that it was only hardware production, but most people were worried about software updates, the app ecosystem and such. It seems to have survived and still going well based on recent updates and continued work.
    Yes, I know a lot of people have assumed, and many still do (rightfully) that the software is at a dead end but people in PSG have continued to stress that development will continue on webOS (at least for the near future). PSG seems to really like webOS, Leo does not.


    If you think quckoffice devs spent the time making document editing only to give it away for free on a seemingly dead platform you are wildly mistaken. HP has made it worth their wild, and likely helped develop it.
    Yes, I'm sure HP made it worth their while to do it BUT that was an agreement put into place LONG before the hardware line was canned. Even though it was was released after the fact, it's NOT a sign of continued support any more than the free 50GB at box.net is a sign... it's all stuff that was already paid for promised, etc...

    Even all the apps that people see tumbling out into the App Catalog now, and point to as signs of support, are mostly updates that were already in the pipeline before the axe fell.

    Today you were basically proven dead wrong by HP. Also notice how they have not announced the pricing of the new, to-be manufactured Touchpads. I still think the 250-300 price range will pan out.
    I wasn't proven wrong at all. HP has contracts with their manufacturers that have to be settled in some way (see the recent news on suppliers being stuck with parts for 100k worth of 7" tablets as an example).

    Apparently HP had ordered production at a rate of 400-450k per month. It's safe to assume that 800k were built and in the system for June and July. No doubt quite a few were made at the beginning of August and there is absolutely no doubt that when production was suddenly halted, the factories were sitting around with tons and tons of parts for the TP. HP would probably have to buy out the remainder of the contract anyway. It only makes sense, since there is demand, to go ahead and let them build the rest with the remainder and sell them off.

    I really don't believe that HP has decided to build more on a brand new contract, and sell them at a horrible loss, just to please people.

    Now... could PSG do this to string production along and then do something new if they get out from under leo's thumb? Seems unlikely but it's a nice thought. Right now, I just want a Pre 3.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by loopytee View Post
    I wonder at what point in production does it get cheeper to produce. Like the first million really cost "x" because development costs are included with manufacturing and parts costs, but there must be some magic number that once surpassed the profit margin increases or your initial startup costs are already paid off. I don't know if it applies since so many sold at a loss but I wonder if the sell 4 million at 99 vs 1 million at 400 if that covers costs. I know its fuzz but I wonder about this.
    What you refer to are NRE costs. At some point the NRE costs are recovered and what is left to pay in overhead is manufacturing, distribution, sales and marketing costs and perhaps some warranty and update costs.

    [ NRE costs = Non-Recurring Engineering costs. ]

    The $207 per unit cost in the article is only the parts and assembly cost. It does not include NRE. If HP can commit to building another, say, 10 million units, then it might see some further reduction in its component costs. Assembly costs are about $10 since it's assembled in China and any reduction in that isn't meaningful.

    So, I don't think HP is going to recover its NRE, either. This is a giant loss for HP. I wonder if it will show up in the 2011Q4 or 2012Q1 numbers.
  15. #55  
    lol. Microsoft has publicly said it's sold xbox at this price to be competitive and establish the user base. Same thing hp is doing. Hp is planing on making money selling webos licenses not from apps. I do not ever see the touchpad being profitable but webos will be for hp if they establish a user base from this. Giving the touchpad away at a low price does the same thing as selling xbox at a loss. They gain users. Users become fans and buy xbox games or phones or toasters and washing machines. Touchpad make money no. Webos licenses maybe.
  16. #56  
    also the segment that runs xbox was down 5.5 billion at one time because of this.
  17. #57  
    psg will prob run better and be more profitable without hp anyway.
  18. #58  
    why are they selling for 99 when they all sell on ebay non stop for 250 to 300.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by bigwood212 View Post
    lol. Microsoft has publicly said it's sold xbox at this price to be competitive and establish the user base. Same thing hp is doing.
    No, MS didn't announce they were canning the entire hardware line. They sold at a loss to increase userbase and make money from the larger userbase. HP can't really do that (it would probably take years for the App Catalog to make back all the money lost on the $200 loss on each TP sold).

    The fact that webOS/Touchpad NOW has a sizable userbase is a side effect of the fire sale. HP didn't start the fire sale with the intent of building an audience, they were just discarding a canceled product at basement prices (as most companies besides Apple end up doing).

    Hp is planing on making money selling webos licenses not from apps.
    Until they have at least one person licensing then it's just an idea, rather than a plan.

    I do not ever see the touchpad being profitable but webos will be for hp if they establish a user base from this.
    ...but anyone going into licensing for webOS would have to build up THEIR OWN userbase for their own hardware to see any benefit, and they won't be selling tablets for $99.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by herk_fe View Post
    I am no insider or expert but my gut tells me the response to the low price touchpad can't be ignored. People everywhere are looking for one of these. Retailers nationwide are sold out and every promo code they toss up gets devoured by consumers. Does anyone else think this delay is HP reconsidering their decision to kill the touchpad?
    Sure...why not! Microsoft and their Xbox360 took loses for 2 years before it became the gaming force it is today and pipeline for game developers now making Kinect games and profit in a gaming world not doing as well as everyone would like. Three years ago, the only gaming platform doing well was the Nintendo Wii with half the hardware, tech, ability, and selling for half as much as everything else.

    Anything is possible with the right motivation and maybe taking a loss can work just like it did for others (Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft). Also, the specs for the present TP have shown many components weighing heavy on the price scale (LCD - $50, Storage $100, etc). HP could easily use less expensive parts that serve, but come in much less for a product not competing with the iPad 2. I'm not even talking about using less of a product...perfect example is Gorilla Glass, how much more does that cost?

    Anything is possible if HP is motivated. Sorli...
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