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  1. #41  
    I'm just thinking...
    Nobody knows when the Firesells ends right?

    They could keep producing them in small amounts and keep selling "untill the end of the stock", when they actually can keep production running.

    Maybe they finally come to the conclusion that the best marketing is put the device in the people hands, cutting the price and stop tv/outdoor traditional advertising were you actually spend allot of money to make it.

    It was just a thought, I really hope there is a plan behind it, remember they used always carefully the words, we didn't quit WebOS, we will find a better way to make the things done... maybe they just discover the right path even they were not believers at first. =)
  2. #42  
    I generally agree, although I disagree with a few points:

    1. The Asus Transformer is an awesome tablet, definitely not "bottom-of-the-barrel"

    2. Windows Phone 7 is not failing. I think Microsoft will become a strong player in the market again pretty soon. Their interface I believe is much better then any other phone out there, including iOS and MS has the money to throw around to entice devs. Their Xbox Live Arcade integration allows for a ton of games to be available and very easy to code for.

    3. iTunes is not a great media player. It is absolutely horrible and why anyone would ever want to use it I don't know.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidlore View Post
    I don't think this is accurate. Not only is there a shift in demand, i believe there IS a shift in quantity demanded. You have to remember that when you speak in terms of supply and demand, this is under the assumption that all else has remained equal. And economic theory states that, all else equal, a change in price will only shift the quantity demanded. However, all else has NOT remained equal. The mind share of the consumer in regards to the touchpad has increased exponentially. There are a whole lot more people who know the touchpad even existed than a week ago. Case in point, my parents now know what a touchpad is and want to buy one. This was not true before the firesale. Because of the frenzy surrounding the firesale and the resulting word of mouth it generated, the pool of potential buyers has increased, and thus not only has quantity demanded increased, i think we are sitting on a whole new demand curve all together.

    That said, there is absolutely positively no way that Apotheker planned this. For one, hes just not that freaking smart. Look at the way he mishandled and fumbled our beloved webOS. Secondly, the day after HP announced this "brilliant marketing scheme", HP stock tanked and took a 7 dollar per share hit. With over 2 billion shares outstanding, that means that in essence, hp lost 14 billion dollars in value. Apotheker may be incompetent, but there's no way that hes insane. WebOS is but a small part of everything that made up HP and as much as i love webOS, it isn't worth blowing up 14 billion dollars to pursue some grandiose high risk marketing venture. Recall that the entire Palm purchase only cost hp 1.2 billion.
    I talked about that, too. This is all speculation, and it's based on anecdotal evidence. There has probably been some shift in demand, but I doubt it's very big. It might be bigger than I think, and I mentioned in the other post that it's possible that it's big enough to see its licensed, I just highly doubt that it is. But yes, you are right that there has probably been some shift in demand as a result. Is it big enough for the general public to buy the touchpad now at a price that is high enough to make a profit on it? And will another company believe that there has been such a shift? Those are the big important questions.
    Blasphemous webOS fan, using Android (with a big phone buying problem)
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  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    It's just too silly to even get into, this idea of a secret marketing plan, it requires criminal conspiracy involved the CEO (because ultimately he's the one who pulls the plug) and while Leo might be a lot of things, he's not a crook.
    I beleive that the first stage of grief is denial. Clearly the OP and many others are still at the first stage. I am guessing it will progress to anger in a month or so.
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  5. cgk
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    #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by ajs26 View Post
    @jcohengd - very interesting analysis. What nobobdy is talking about is the internal politics in HP. It seems to me that Todd Bradley and the PSG are very committed to the consumer market in general and to webOS in particular - even though it is crystal clear that Leo A has no interest. I think the fire sale may be Todd Bradley's last stand to show Leo (and the world) that there is demand for webOS tablets and phones (at he right price). It may even be Bradley's way of showing the HP Board and the rest of the world that they picked the wrong candidate for CEO last year. Remember, as someone (you know who I mean, Leo) once said - "it's a marathon, not a sprint"
    Since Bradley is actively looking for another job, it's clearly that he's not banking on that. I see on some other forums that a few of the key people behind WebOs have already left and the longer there is limbo the more you can expect the best and the brightest to jump ship.

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Since Bradley is actively looking for another job, it's clearly that he's not banking on that. I see on some other forums that a few of the key people behind WebOs have already left and the longer there is limbo the more you can expect the best and the brightest to jump ship.

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
    Yeah, that is not a good sign.
    Blasphemous webOS fan, using Android (with a big phone buying problem)
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    #47  
    The mindshare increase is related to the desire to acquire free value. If Lexus were to 'firesale' brand new vehicles for $5K you would similarly observe the same phenomena.

    Short of flushing out the bugs, hugely expanding the app catalog, and creating a significant innovation worth driving people to a new platform because it makes their life easier (think gmail and threaded conversations), this uptick is price driven and wouldn't increase long term demand at a tablet cost that was in line with production realities.
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by pgarcia View Post
    I'm just thinking...
    Nobody knows when the Firesells ends right?

    They could keep producing them in small amounts and keep selling "untill the end of the stock", when they actually can keep production running.
    And make a massive loss on every single one they sell (not to mention the fact that if you're not producing in volume your production costs go even higher)?

    Nope - that would be commercial suicide. What's left is all there is unless someone buys the rights to make some new hardware.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by wydileie View Post
    I generally agree, although I disagree with a few points:

    1. The Asus Transformer is an awesome tablet, definitely not "bottom-of-the-barrel"
    OT a bit, but yes it is I bought mine during the TF US launch day frenzy. After playing with it for a couple of months, I bought the keyboard dock and sold my Macbook Pro (I still have a Mini as my desktop). I just discovered yesterday that there is an Android Citrix client, so now I can remote into my work computer from my friggin' tablet. Just awesome. I am constantly amazed by how people much smarter than me advance technology so quickly. We are living in interesting times if you're a tech nerd
  10. cgk
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan_ View Post
    The mindshare increase is related to the desire to acquire free value. If Lexus were to 'firesale' brand new vehicles for $5K you would similarly observe the same phenomena.

    Short of flushing out the bugs, hugely expanding the app catalog, and creating a significant innovation worth driving people to a new platform because it makes their life easier (think gmail and threaded conversations), this uptick is price driven and wouldn't increase long term demand at a tablet cost that was in line with production realities.
    Damn, I just thought - we shouldn't be trying to convince people that this *isn't* some amazing new marketing scheme - we should be trying to convince people that it is. If we can just convince the head of Lexus that he should get in early because we've heard that BMW plan to beat him to it!

    You've got to be selling your new lexus at $5000, you'll be left behind otherwise. I'll take two thanks.

    Anyone got his email address?
  11. #51  
    Too be honest I like the fairy tail version of the OP's story, but in real life you are a company you don't fire sale your items like this, AND announce you are closing down development and creation of all your webOS devices.

    However what I can see happening, is that HP realizes that if they can get a cheap tablet out there(32 gb 7 inch for 250-300 bucks). It'll sell like crazy. They might if leo is smart at all(which looking at his track record he isn't) they will continue creating the smaller tablet or even a 10" that's cheaper to produce. If they did that and threw it out BEFORE Christmas then we could see a turn around for WebOS.

    However again I doubt this will happen as the current board and CEO of HP are really being idiotic. They lost 20% of their stock in this(not just from webOS) that in itself is something that should get them all fired imho.

    -Toaster
  12. #52  
    The crazy is really starting to show in this forum and it's getting really bad. Wild speculation and down right denial are running rampant.

    This is clearance sale, they are not going to make anymore. Samsung wants nothing to do with HP and webos. This is a momentary spike of sales due to the low prices, just like black friday sales, it's not going to move webos anywhere or generate a huge user base. There what, 500,000 touchpads made? the iPad sold 10 million last quater and the galaxy tab sold 2 million. That gives the touchpad 1/2% of the market.... the devs must be flocking....
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  13.    #53  
    I'm not saying Apotheker was that smart but certainly one of the executives who at the idea at HP could be that smart.

    A man doesnt just say that he wants his company to be
    "be cooler than Apple" only to then back out like this. Tom's Hardware US

    Those are fighting words! And sometime you have to fight dirty.

    And the point of my post is that no tablet is going to succeed exceptthe ipad until either 1. They innovate (which NONE have been) or 2. They eliminate the apple tax.

    I believe HP has done number 2.
  14. cgk
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    #54  
    A man doesnt just say that he wants his company to be "be cooler than Apple" only to then back out like this.
    They do when they realise they've failed - they released a "me too" product and the public wasn't interested. HP isn't as cool as a knitted jumper let alone apple.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan_ View Post
    The mindshare increase is related to the desire to acquire free value. If Lexus were to 'firesale' brand new vehicles for $5K you would similarly observe the same phenomena.

    Short of flushing out the bugs, hugely expanding the app catalog, and creating a significant innovation worth driving people to a new platform because it makes their life easier (think gmail and threaded conversations), this uptick is price driven and wouldn't increase long term demand at a tablet cost that was in line with production realities.
    I think this is a poor analogy. Everyone, from the CEO of a fortune 500 company to the homeless beggar that lives down the street knows what a Lexus is. The idea of "Lexus" is ubiquitous throughout every demographic of the population. The same isn't true of the Touchpad or webOS. Hardly anyone knew of the existence of the touchpad, and even among those that know about the touchpad, very few are aware of the advantages of webOS. Just look at that other thread on this forum that talks about bestbuy employees that were enamored with the touchpad yet didn't even now it existed before this fire sale.

    To be sure, much of the chatter behind the touchpad right now is driven by the fire sale prices. But lets be honest, a crappy product would not sell regardless of the price attached to it. In your example, the firesale of a Lexus would only work if the Lexus was still built up to Lexus quality.
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    #56  
    I don't think a good tablet needs to cost a lot of money. I have a rooted Nook Color and while it's not the best or fastest, at $199 (from the B&N ebay site) this thing is really capable. I can play games, surf the web, do my email. What would make it even better is webOS. So if B&N can build decent hardware for $199-$250, then I don't see any reason why a company like HP can't.
    The allure of the $499 starting price was that for once they were hoping to have a decent profit margin on their products. They were hoping to avoid what happened in the netbook war where prices kept going down and margins virtually disappeared.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lucidlore View Post
    I think this is a poor analogy. Everyone, from the CEO of a fortune 500 company to the homeless beggar that lives down the street knows what a Lexus is. The idea of "Lexus" is ubiquitous throughout every demographic of the population. The same isn't true of the Touchpad or webOS. Hardly anyone knew of the existence of the touchpad, and even among those that know about the touchpad, very few are aware of the advantages of webOS. Just look at that other thread on this forum that talks about bestbuy employees that were enamored with the touchpad yet didn't even now it existed before this fire sale.

    To be sure, much of the chatter behind the touchpad right now is driven by the fire sale prices. But lets be honest, a crappy product would not sell regardless of the price attached to it. In your example, the firesale of a Lexus would only work if the Lexus was still built up to Lexus quality.
    I bet if you priced a brand new mid-size Chevy at $5k it would sell out instantly too.
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  18. #58  
    Good point. Attempting to sell a tablet at 499 and going head to head with apple clearly was a mistake. But now that a LOT of people know about the touchpad and have first hand experience playing with one, there should be no reason why a webOS tablet made by someone else with improved hardware can't be competitive at say 399.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    I bet if you priced a brand new mid-size Chevy at $5k it would sell out instantly too.
    That still doesn't disprove the point I'm trying to make. Just as many people know what a Chevy is as there are people who know what a Lexus is. A better example would be, what about a 5k car made by say ... Baolong Motors? Who the hell is that ?! EXACTLY!

    The problem with the touchpad is that it is a capable tablet THAT NO ONE KNOWS ABOUT. Now, people know. That changes things.
  20. #60  
    If HP had said, "We're pricing aggressively to grow the WebOS user base," instead of, "We're quitting webos device development and hosting a firesale (their word) of the remaining products," then you'd be right. But they didn't. Instead they dumped it and thus will get no benefit from this firesale.
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