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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Rumors say a deal is actually done already with Samsung.
    I think you're going to be disappointed. No one wants a webOS tablet that costs more than $99 at this point, and Samsung is not in the business of making $99 tablets. This firesale has had the sad effect of completely devaluing webOS. More likely, we'll see it spring up on Huawei-type bargain bin tablets, if anything.
  2. NickA's Avatar
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    We don't know that yet.

    What we do know is that they said WebOS is alive and will be pushed forward, and that they are currently talking with several large companies interested in it, now.

    Rumors say a deal is actually done already with Samsung.

    I think its best to not prognosticate, and just accept that its what we do NOT know that is likely of the most significance.

    I thought Samsung too. But why would they create a product to compete with their Galaxy Tab? Or would it be a webOS version of the Tab? And the success of their Galaxy S phones is unparralled.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    Optimism does not equal reality. There is just no way they blindly produced over a million Touchpads without truly knowing demand, especially with the sales figures from other non-iPad tablets at their fingertips.

    I guess we'll know when the official numbers are in, but until then, both estimates are speculation.
    The point was that if this was their goal for year end, they had to produce at least 1 million at launch, which answered your question.

    Its not optimism, its logic.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    The point was that if this was their goal for year end, they had to produce at least 1 million at launch, which answered your question.

    Its not optimism, its logic.

    Why would they produce 1 million at launch if they had 6 months to sell 4 million? I'll give you 500,000, max. Still impressive for a niche product, but that's not a sustainable ecosystem when no more hardware is being produced.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    If a 10", 250GB Asus netbook is $229 at Best Buy how can a tablet be more? The netbook has a keyboard, USB, SD, etc.

    Asus was selling all the Transformers it could make at $399. According to DIgitime Asus expected to need to drop to $349 by August 1, but the demand was so great that there was no point.

    I bet we see the Transformer at $349 or even $299 soon now. Acer will have to follow with the Iconia.
    Is there any real end user SALES data on the Asus? Everything I see revolves around the numbers Asus is stuffing the channel with in selling to vendors.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickA View Post
    I thought Samsung too. But why would they create a product to compete with their Galaxy Tab? Or would it be a webOS version of the Tab? And the success of their Galaxy S phones is unparralled.
    Depending on the specific scenario there have been talks about the Apple suits. Then there is the long term implications of the google/motorolla deal.

    Then there is also the law suit again Google over some of the android coding. All of this could lead to a different playing field for HTC, Samsung, and LG over the next year or so, for both tablets and smartphones.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Who said Samsung would be making WebOS tablets, or even $99 tablets?



    Please, stop assuming/twisting things.
    Please don't tell me you're counting on Samsung refrigerators to keep webOS alive But Samsung would have to make a $99 tablet, because that is what people value webOS at now. webOS did not sell at full price last week, and it won't sell at full price in a few months.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickA View Post
    I thought Samsung too. But why would they create a product to compete with their Galaxy Tab?
    Because the company that makes the operating system for their tablets just became a hardware manufacturer in competition with them? That said I think its unlikely they'd buy webOS.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    Why would they produce 1 million at launch if they had 6 months to sell 4 million? I'll give you 500,000, max. Still impressive for a niche product, but that's not a sustainable ecosystem when no more hardware is being produced.
    That's how hardware production works and the costs are minimized due to economy of scale.

    Lower cost per unit with larger order. If the product doesnt sell well, you have a lower pricepoint to work with the find the right selling point.

    If its a hit, you made a ton more money than you antcipated on that first order.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    I think you're going to be disappointed. No one wants a webOS tablet that costs more than $99 at this point, and Samsung is not in the business of making $99 tablets. This firesale has had the sad effect of completely devaluing webOS. More likely, we'll see it spring up on Huawei-type bargain bin tablets, if anything.
    Yes, this is precisely what the fire sale did: it devalued webOS. And, I can only imagine how it's scared away potential suitors. I mean, my golly, I'd be pretty ticked off if I were a company (say, Samsung) thinking about buying the PSG, including webOS, and HP pulled this stunt. I can't imagine a better way of imprinting in people's minds that webOS is a low-end product.

    It's funny how some people gave me a hard time when I said I thought HP should have launched the TouchPad at $399/$499 to undercut the iPad 2 and act as a price leader. I was looking at how well the Asus Transformer has done at that price (well over a million units sold with only a fraction of the TouchPad's ad budget and retail presence) and figured HP would be able to do even better.

    I was told, however, that this would imply that the TouchPad wasn't as good as the iPad 2, and so hitting the same price point was the smart option. Because, you know, the TouchPad is SO MUCH BETTER than the iPad 2. Now, there's all these (same) people arguing that selling at $99/$149 is a brilliant strategy for resurrecting webOS, in spite of the fact that HP is giving up $200+ a unit.

    Which is it folks? Because I'm starting to lose track...
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  11. samab's Avatar
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    #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Additionally, you need to do some research on your own to find out what and why Samsung would want WebOS, and has been in talks with them since June/2011 about it.
    South Korean government is pressuring all Korean consumer electronics to jointly come up with their own mobile OS platform.

    Seoul to develop homegrown operating system for smartphones | YONHAP NEWS

    If you read the Korean press reports, not a single mention of Samsung and WebOS --- ever.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    That's how hardware production works and the costs are minimized due to economy of scale.

    Lower cost per unit with larger order. If the product doesnt sell well, you have a lower pricepoint to work with the find the right selling point.

    If its a hit, you made a ton more money than you antcipated on that first order.
    Yes, lower costs by percentage points or fractions of a percent. And, orders have out clauses as well. So, they place an order for a period of time (say, 4 million units equally distributed over Q3 and Q4) in order to get a price break, and then if they cancel the order they pay a penalty. There's no way that HP took delivery on anything even close to their projected sales for the year.

    What, do you think Leo said, "We're going to give this one last shot and evaluate by the end of the quarter, but while we're at it, let's go ahead and take delivery of every unit you guys are projecting for the entire year."
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by porkozone View Post
    I think it's kinda sad what HP has done here. It will have a ripple effect well past this Christmas Season. People now have a price point they are willing to pay for a tablet, yet it is not a realistic one. No one can MAKE a table that cheap - especially one as good as the TP. That's why this is such a good deal - not because it's a $99 tablet, but because it's a $500 tablet posing as a $99 tablet.

    Also, I can't imagine why all of these companies would want to sell these things at $99. I tried to order from CDW yesterday - they had a small window where they were selling these things (at a huge loss to begin with), yet it entirely took over their entire day's operations, and most likely prevented many regular sales for the day due to all the disruption the firesale caused. Their site was flaky for hours after - their customer support was slammed for hours after from people contacting them to ask/complain "do you have any Touchpads" or "What do you mean my order was cancelled! How dare you keep me from getting one of these!" I heard a report of someone who spoke to CDW customer support that they have thousands of orders that were taken that they need to cancel, and are having to contact each one - imagine what manpower (and operating costs) that would take. And that is just one situation of many.

    Why exactly would these companies want to deal with that? I'll bet in many cases these companies lost more money dealing with the issues the fire sale is causing than they are making selling these off. They should have just given them to their employees as early Christmas bonuses or something.

    What's worse is they had no choice - HP set the price, and they had to follow. I'll bet a lot of retailers and distributers are not happy with HP right now...
    I live next to CDW warehouse and the BTC center. I went in there getting the touchstones for 50 dollars they they said even the workers there were having problems getting them cause the whole system was going off then back on. I know for a fact that one company ordered 15,000 of them through a rep at cdw.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by jrstinkfish View Post
    Please don't tell me you're counting on Samsung refrigerators to keep webOS alive But Samsung would have to make a $99 tablet, because that is what people value webOS at now. webOS did not sell at full price last week, and it won't sell at full price in a few months.
    There are Touchpads selling like hotcakes across Craigslist and eBay this week, all generally $270-$350 (sometimes more). This might float down a bit but as fire sale priced units vanish, I'd wager not by much. If Samsung could bring a $299-399 tablet to market running webOS, I don't think they'd have trouble selling it.

    The vast majority of casual buyers probably don't even know about the fire sale. They will , very soon, hear from their friends about the great tablet they got on sale running webOS. If someone can come to market with something new in the next 6-8 months then I think the eco-system can survive.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by jtfolden View Post
    There are Touchpads selling like hotcakes across Craigslist and eBay this week, all generally $270-$350 (sometimes more). This might float down a bit but as fire sale priced units vanish, I'd wager not by much. If Samsung could bring a $299-399 tablet to market running webOS, I don't think they'd have trouble selling it.

    The vast majority of casual buyers probably don't even know about the fire sale. They will , very soon, hear from their friends about the great tablet they got on sale running webOS. If someone can come to market with something new in the next 6-8 months then I think the eco-system can survive.
    Are they actually selling or just on sale?
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by transient View Post
    No way. The TP is the king of it's own market - the $99 fire sale market. When it competed head to with the Android tabs @ the $399 price tage, it did nothing of note.
    Nothing but the iPad has done anything of note, everyone else is fighting over a 5% share of the end user market. We have NO idea how well the TP did out of the door, we only know it didn't hit the expectations of HP (to be on track to sale 4-5 million in the first 6 months).
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by beardedspoooon View Post
    Are they actually selling or just on sale?
    If you go to Ebay they're selling around $250-$300 for the 32GB with plenty of bids. The problem is that's not at all a realistic launch price for a new tablet, the profit would be entirely too low to even bother taking the bet it would sell.
  18. cgk
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    #58  
    Even when then did the original cut, it still didn't sell and they were losing money then - it's all in the earnings call. The speed at which webOS was taken out to the woodshed and put out of its suffering suggest the sales figures must be been horrific. Moreover killing it in this way suggests that they know that they it is not a realistic going concern. Indeed it might have been killed to make the PSG look more attractive for a sale.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by beardedspoooon View Post
    Are they actually selling or just on sale?
    Selling. I was looking at completed sales and sales with just a few minutes left over the weekend/yesterday and those were the prices they were actually being sold at.

    I myself bought 4 this weekend and ended up selling 1 of them because a family member changed their mind and I wanted to recoup some $$$. I lowballed it at at $220, under the eBay average, on CL to avoid haggling and it was gone in a snap, after receiving dozens of messages for it.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Even when then did the original cut, it still didn't sell and they were losing money then - it's all in the earnings call. The speed at which webOS was taken out to the woodshed and put out of its suffering suggest the sales figures must be been horrific. Moreover killing it in this way suggests that they know that they it is not a realistic going concern. Indeed it might have been killed to make the PSG look more attractive for a sale.
    I'm starting to believe something was leaked combined with the BestBuy story (which I am still not buying all the numbers in that story), that caused a rushed announcement at the earnings call.

    If they really have already taken 100 mil loss on the fire sale, the 300 mil quarter loss on "Palm" wasn't that huge considering lots of R&D and production had gone out without the items out for sale. HP knew what their numbers looked like, there is something more to all of this since they have only moved to increase loss before they got all of their products out to the consumer.

    The firesale looks like a knee jerk reaction to the announcement at the earnings call that was clearly not very well planned out. Now a lot of people very high up are scrambling to figure out what's next.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
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