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  • 2 Post By 65fastback
  1.    #1  
    the touchpads are still selling rapidly over at ebay for about $270 every minute or so. just got one myself in case my hp small business purchase didnt go thru. seems there is quite a market for these things at a $270 price point. makes one wonder whether that shouldnt have been the launch price.
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by flipberkheimer View Post
    the touchpads are still selling rapidly over at ebay for about $270 every minute or so. just got one myself in case my hp small business purchase didnt go thru. seems there is quite a market for these things at a $270 price point. makes one wonder whether that shouldnt have been the launch price.
    Someone pointed out that the manufacturing cost was ~$300. The point in selling a product is to make money, not lose money.
  3. #3  
    Thought the point was to get as many webOS devices in people's hands as possible to create interest in it so a mfg will take notice and see there still might be a market for webOS and take a chance on licensing the OS and put it on some well overdue killer hardware. Outside of horrible marketing, bad hardware was one of the reasons webOS never took off. I'd buy a Moto Droid 3 if it was running webOS. Well, I'll most likely be buying it anyway, but I'd pick it up if it were running webOS (and had doc editing...my only major dealbreaker feature).
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  4.    #4  
    the point was to gain marketshare, then start raising prices.
  5. #5  
    they shoulda sold the 16gb @ $299 and the 32gb @ $349.

    made money on one and lost on the other for a net break even.
    @agentmock

    Audiovox SMT5600 (WM) --> Cingular 8125 (WM) --> Sprint Mogul 8525 (WM) --> Palm Pre (webOS)- --> Sprint Franken Pre2 (webOS) + 32gb Touchpad (webOS)
    bmacfarland and jcerwinske like this.
  6. #6  
    that makes no sense. they're not producing any more. They're liquidating current inventory and then hoping someone else will pick it up on the hardware end. They can't afford to play cat and mouse with pricing. They need to get every single webos device in inventory in people's hands. Create interest in the OS plain and simple. They want to entice people to license the OS.
    Quote Originally Posted by flipberkheimer View Post
    the point was to gain marketshare, then start raising prices.
    and those prices wouldn't work. They could've minimized the losses at $170 and $200 give or take. You had to make it significantly cheaper than the current crop of android tablets. That's the reason to pick one up over an Iconia or Transformer. Especially for what many believe to be a defunct OS on a tablet with less connectivity.
    Last edited by crogs571; 08/21/2011 at 09:46 PM.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  7. #7  
    I had fun this weekend. Racing on my Buell to two Staples stores to get a TP 32gb . I came home put it on ebay and it was sold this morning for $290.00 free shipping.

    Im around computers all day and just cant find a spot for the TP other than the bed room and at this point a Sony dash or the new dash 2 fits that better.

    I would rather have a pre 3 but I guess i am either getting a BB 9850 or a Sony S2 tablet/phone.
  8. th3h0ff's Avatar
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    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    that makes no sense. they're not producing any more. They're liquidating current inventory and then hoping someone else will pick it up on the hardware end. They can't afford to play cat and mouse with pricing. They need to get every single webos device in inventory in people's hands. Create interest in the OS plain and simple. They want to entice people to license the OS.
    The strategy should of been this in my uneducated opinion.

    1. Purchase palm. CHECK
    2. Rebrand and update existing WebOS devices with "HP" WebOS. SEMI FAIL
    3. Release "new" phone and tablet hardware in a new market price range to generate physical market penetration somewhere between 200 and 300 bucks, or just under break even, thus generating buzz at the price range and forcing WebOS into the market. FAIL
    4. Market buzz attracts developers. FAIL
    5. At the height of the buzz announce licensing deals with Samsung, HTC, Sony etc... Undercutting MS by a dollar a license fee. FAIL
    6. Watch the steady stream of revenue from licensing to manufactures roll in and position WebOS as a # 1a mindshare in the industry. Then once yearly offer a new HP branded WebOS piece of hardware at a profit. FAIL

    HP and a lot of people on here missed the mark. Its next to impossible to generate an operating system buzz. With Apple and Google owning mind share HP needed to create a "price point" buzz that place WebOS in a position to be in front of a new very large demographic of consumers... After that WebOS would've had the mind share it needed to be successful.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    "Originality.....There's NO app for that!" -Th3H0ff
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Th3H0ff View Post
    The strategy should of been this in my uneducated opinion.

    1. Purchase palm. CHECK
    2. Rebrand and update existing WebOS devices with "HP" WebOS. SEMI FAIL
    3. Release "new" phone and tablet hardware in a new market price range to generate physical market penetration somewhere between 200 and 300 bucks, or just under break even, thus generating buzz at the price range and forcing WebOS into the market. FAIL
    4. Market buzz attracts developers. FAIL
    5. At the height of the buzz announce licensing deals with Samsung, HTC, Sony etc... Undercutting MS by a dollar a license fee. FAIL
    6. Watch the steady stream of revenue from licensing to manufactures roll in and position WebOS as a # 1a mindshare in the industry. Then once yearly offer a new HP branded WebOS piece of hardware at a profit. FAIL

    HP and a lot of people on here missed the mark. Its next to impossible to generate an operating system buzz. With Apple and Google owning mind share HP needed to create a "price point" buzz that place WebOS in a position to be in front of a new very large demographic of consumers... After that WebOS would've had the mind share it needed to be successful.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
    You guys are smoking crack thinking that a company will put out a product like this at a loss. It's $300 to make one plus advertising and development costs. That's a ton of money to lose in a hotly contested market.

    @ $300 they'd sell better but I doubt that they'd be flying off the shelves like iPads.
  10. #10  
    My marketing strategy is post the HP F'up. We all can play armchair quarterback as to what they should've done. Though that stems all the way back to the intro of webOS.

    transient: you don't get it. they're selling at a loss to get the product out there to generate licensing interest from manufacturers. They don't do that with a mild increase in sales. They do that by selling them by the thousands in a short period of time. And while they'll take the loss on the hardware now, they win if they get it back in licensing revenue down the road. That is what they're hoping for. It's a gamble. If they lose, it's just a tax write off. If they win, it was a great last ditch effort.

    Motorhead: Gotta love what that company did with a Harley Sportster engine.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by crogs571 View Post
    My marketing strategy is post the HP F'up. We all can play armchair quarterback as to what they should've done. Though that stems all the way back to the intro of webOS.

    transient: you don't get it. they're selling at a loss to get the product out there to generate licensing interest from manufacturers. They don't do that with a mild increase in sales. They do that by selling them by the thousands in a short period of time. And while they'll take the loss on the hardware now, they win if they get it back in licensing revenue down the road. That is what they're hoping for. It's a gamble. If they lose, it's just a tax write off. If they win, it was a great last ditch effort.

    Motorhead: Gotta love what that company did with a Harley Sportster engine.
    Says who? You? I'm serious, do you have a statement from HP that says that? Right now all it looks like they are doing is liquidating.

    Edit: and what exactly does that prove? that webOS fails as a profitable product but can be sold at a huge loss? what about consumer sentiment? cheap OS, low expectations? It can't be what you say.
  12. th3h0ff's Avatar
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by transient View Post
    You guys are smoking crack thinking that a company will put out a product like this at a loss. It's $300 to make one plus advertising and development costs. That's a ton of money to lose in a hotly contested market.

    @ $300 they'd sell better but I doubt that they'd be flying off the shelves like iPads.
    Dude its a marathon not a sprint! When I started my business I took many deals at a loss to develop relationships and establish a market share. After that the mind share, word of mouth and satisfaction in my product took over. Now I cant remember when the last time I took a loss was and my customer retention and loyalty is second to none. The point is if I were to have entered this industry and said well "I" believe my product is equal to or better than this guys, so I will charge the same amount people would have never even given me a chance to prove what "I" knew. Besides whos the one really smoking crack when not only IS HP selling these at a tremendous loss (larger than necessary) but ALSO washing their hands and wallets of a 1.2 BILLION dollar investment. The money they would have lost at just under cost would still have been WAY less then the current state of affairs and they would have had some penetration to leverage a licensing (read revenue stream) deal from.
    "Originality.....There's NO app for that!" -Th3H0ff
  13. Hobbz's Avatar
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    #13  
    Is it really necessary to rehash all the debate about what the price points should have been?

    OP's point was valid and HP admitted themselves the original price wasn't generating sales (aka - attracting customers). There's way more to the story about last week's events as well.
  14. joos519's Avatar
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    #14  
    As a former marketing analyst, I can tell you that the cost to make a tablet is no where near 300, hell...a 42 inch flat screen costs $1 to make in materials. The 300 is an estimated combination cost for stocking (length it is in store, usually measured in 30, 60, 90, days and so on), advertising, packaging, build, delivery, cost to replace, warranty, man hours and so much more it's impossible to list.

    People would freak if they found out how much these electronics really cost to make. HP has shareholders and audit committees which decide what's best for the share holders not the consumer, I'm sure they didn't get what was estimated in their balance sheets, but I assure you that they made a profit.
  15. #15  
    Don't forget the enormous fallout stock prices took after these "fail" announcements. 12 billion on top of the billion they are losing liquidating. I'd bet the stock would look VERY different had HP used this cash to break into the market in a big way. Soon economic of scale and successful app market bring things back into profitability. Case in point, PlayStation 3.

    If nothing else, I think this whole debacle has shown the world that there is a huge market for a sub 200$ tablet pc. You can bet there are plans to build one on every tablet manufacturer's design table tonight.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by joos519 View Post
    As a former marketing analyst, I can tell you that the cost to make a tablet is no where near 300, hell...a 42 inch flat screen costs $1 to make in materials.
    No, no no no.

    Even in unrefined base elements a 42 inch tv is far more than 1$, and those materials don't magically assemble themselves into the necessary bits and pieces.

    You're talking about a whole slew of parts that are nowhere near 1$, hell, you couldn't get an empty case injection molded for 1$.

    You're so far off base it almost makes me question whether or not you were being serious...
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by ncinerate View Post
    Don't forget the enormous fallout stock prices took after these "fail" announcements. 12 billion on top of the billion they are losing liquidating. I'd bet the stock would look VERY different had HP used this cash to break into the market in a big way. Soon economic of scale and successful app market bring things back into profitability. Case in point, PlayStation 3.

    If nothing else, I think this whole debacle has shown the world that there is a huge market for a sub 200$ tablet pc. You can bet there are plans to build one on every tablet manufacturer's design table tonight.
    1. The PS3 is made to sell software, without games it's almost nothing. You can buy a touchpad and never buy a single app and still have a very usable product. In fact many people will do just that. Plus you're comparing $60 games to $1 apps.

    2. You don't think people would have done this already (sell cheap good tablets)? Apple has a mind share monopoly in the tablet market. If a OEM could push out a GOOD tablet at a amazing price they would. They do this with PCs/Laptops (HP anyone?), why not in the tablet market? Oh wait, they DO sell cheap tablets at that price range, they just suck beyond belief.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by transient View Post
    You guys are smoking crack thinking that a company will put out a product like this at a loss. It's $300 to make one plus advertising and development costs. That's a ton of money to lose in a hotly contested market.
    tell that to MS (Xbox) or Sony (PS3)... Sprint spent $100M on the marketing of the "iphone killer" Instinct. MS spends more than that to market its products. Taking a loss (loss leader) like that would have been much smarter than the loss they are taking now, which gets them NOTHING...
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    tell that to MS (Xbox) or Sony (PS3)... Sprint spent $100M on the marketing of the "iphone killer" Instinct. MS spends more than that to market its products. Taking a loss (loss leader) like that would have been much smarter than the loss they are taking now, which gets them NOTHING...
    1 - Consoles are very different. As noted above, software MUST be bought to be able to use a game console. Plus console games are WAY more expensive. As for the Instinct, a) it never took off, b) it wasn't sold at a irregular loss.

    2 - It's obvious that upper HP management wanted out of the consumer market. WebOS was either going to take off immediately or it was going to be killed off. They just dumped $10-12b on a enterprise acquisition, they had no patience for a long term battle for a product that was destined to have very low margins. I'm sure that their pretty confident that there's more profit in enterprise.
  20. #20  
    no, it shows two companies had zero clue how to run with webOS and what their customers wanted. We got to sit back and watch them get trounced by the competition. It's not rocket science, and everyone with a half brain on here to the bloggers to the analysts all said the same thing to a certain degree, bad hardware, bad marketing, bad time to market and so on just kept digging the hole deeper and deeper.

    Did you even read the various statements from HP? Apparently not, edited post or otherwise. WebOS is currently a failure because of the way the companies handled it, not because it is a failure as an OS. I ditched my Pre long ago as my daily driver, but it doesn't mean I don't like the nature of the OS. The Hoff has the right idea too in his last post. I don't need to justify myself to you. The small loss they take now on the hardware to generate customer interest is a pittance to the long term licensing fees they can get from the OS. It's a gamble, but it's better than just dealing it away and taking a bigger loss on the overall webOS investment. At least here there is a chance of a silver lining.
    Quote Originally Posted by transient View Post
    Says who? You? I'm serious, do you have a statement from HP that says that? Right now all it looks like they are doing is liquidating.

    Edit: and what exactly does that prove? that webOS fails as a profitable product but can be sold at a huge loss? what about consumer sentiment? cheap OS, low expectations? It can't be what you say.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.

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