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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Wasn't it the popular argument with all the locals around here a few weeks back that HP should absolutely sell the TP for the same price as the ipad because selling them for less would set everyone's expectations that webs devices were cheap, while the people suggesting they should sell at lower than iPad prices (but still at a profit) were chastised as being trolls?

    Now conventional wisdom has done a 180 to argue that HP should dump these things at half cost or so to flood the market?

    A lot has changed in a few short weeks.

    -Suntan
    Don't think that was quite the way it was being said. Do a search, there were LOTS saying start out evenly priced and then add value by deep discounts or by aggressive accessory bundling.

    That is pretty much what is causing the frenzy. If they started out at $200, would anyone even notice if they were at half price? But people feel like they are getting a VALUE and that is what is propelling this. Coby is also selling an Android based tablet (Kyros) for $149 on Amazon, but there are no people beating down the door to get that one. It's not price, it's perceived value that sell product.

    HP management contention that their goals were not being reached is typical corporate dis-information. What were those goals anyway and were they realistic? Any rational person expected it to be at least a 2 year campaign to get traction.

    It's like giving you girlfriend a pair of tweezers and jar of cold cream and telling her she ought to look like Miss America in 30 days or you are dumping her. HP releases fair to OK -at best- products when to grab mindshare right away they needed outstanding... then they blame the OS.

    BMW and Lexus sells on the perception that they provide the best. Toyota and Honda sell on the perception that they give incredible value for their cost. Perhaps HP brass lost sight of that very basic marketing principle.
    "Sometimes I feel like an OS-less child..."
    (with apologies to Billie Holiday )
    k4ever likes this.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Everyone take a breath. Ok exhale. The point of this thread is this:

    HP's fire sale is working against what everyone thought. They actually increased the user base for webOS. I say if that's what it takes extend the fire sale. Get a few more million folks using it and talking about it. They already wasted millions of dollars trying to do this with advertising and training. Take that money and dump it into some more devices for a limited time. If their goal is to licence it and increase the developer pool, what better way of doing that from a position of strength then having 2-4 million hungry webOS users behind you. That plan makes more since then losing 12 billion dollars in market value and not gaining anything in return.
    The fire sale is doing exactly what it was supposed to. Sell the Touchpads HP still had in inventory. It's sad if that is what it took to significantly increase the user base ans will not change HP's decision to stop selling WebOS tablets.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by ADGrant View Post
    The fire sale is doing exactly what it was supposed to. Sell the Touchpads HP still had in inventory. It's sad if that is what it took to significantly increase the user base ans will not change HP's decision to stop selling WebOS tablets.
    And, even the phrase "significantly increase" is dubious here. Going from a few hundred thousand users to a million or so (if that) simply isn't meaningful, particularly when there's not going to be more than a handful of new webOS users added in the foreseeable future. Folks seem to be forgetting that other than whatever inventory is left of Veers, Pre 3 overseas, and whatever flotsam and jetsam is left lying around, there are going to be no more webOS devices sold as far as anyone knows.

    I swear, I feel like I'm arguing that the world is round to a bunch of Flat Earthers.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    And, even the phrase "significantly increase" is dubious here. Going from a few hundred thousand users to a million or so (if that) simply isn't meaningful, particularly when there's not going to be more than a handful of new webOS users added in the foreseeable future. Folks seem to be forgetting that other than whatever inventory is left of Veers, Pre 3 overseas, and whatever flotsam and jetsam is left lying around, there are going to be no more webOS devices sold as far as anyone knows.

    I swear, I feel like I'm arguing that the world is round to a bunch of Flat Earthers.
    2 questions:

    1) If the earth isn't flat then why do they call it "the 4 corners of the earth?"

    2) If webOS isn't dead then why is Samsung going to announce that they are dropping Android and adopting webOS on September 1?
  5. #45  
    Let's say you have an App. Let's say it's a document editing app, and it's the first one out and it's pretty decent. 1 million users, and I expect maybe half those would definitely pay money for it? hmmmm... Now if HP didn't fire sale any of the TP's... a lot smaller user base, so I can see your point of view. This fire sale changes everything...
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    2 questions:

    1) If the earth isn't flat then why do they call it "the 4 corners of the earth?"

    2) If webOS isn't dead then why is Samsung going to announce that they are dropping Android and adopting webOS on September 1?
    2) /facepalm. They're not. It's most like an Android phone with Ice Cream Sandwich.
  7.    #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    HP losing billions of market cap has to do with Wall Street thinking that (1) they overpaid for Autonomy and (2) uncertainty of PC business would dampen HP's PC sales.

    It has NOTHING to do webos.
    It also had to do with webOS and the Touchpad. Unfortunately webOS is part of the same division (PSG) and HP's PCs.
  8.    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by neurocutie View Post
    that would be fine IFF they positioned this price offering as a loss leader and marketed it as such. Instead they announced the DEATH of Palm/WebOS and people know this as a FIRESALE -- completely the wrong and opposite effect to a loss leader... NEGATIVE marketing value, not positive...

    Yes they made the same, and MORE SERIOUS mistake of announcing the exit of their $30B PC business (a third of HP's annual revenue)... they are just battle 1000 for destroying themselves...
    They never announced the DEATH of webOS. They have said time and time again that they are keeping the operating system, supporting it, and looking for licensing partners. At least that is what they said. Whether or not any of us should believe them is debatable. However, they did not announce any plans to kill the OS so lets gets that statement right.
  9.    #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bacstar View Post
    Let's say you have an App. Let's say it's a document editing app, and it's the first one out and it's pretty decent. 1 million users, and I expect maybe half those would definitely pay money for it? hmmmm... Now if HP didn't fire sale any of the TP's... a lot smaller user base, so I can see your point of view. This fire sale changes everything...
    Sell the app for $10 dollars. Make $10 million dollars in one pop. Of course 3 million of that goes to HP.

    If you don't think folks will pay $10 for an office suite, think again. I had to pay $14 for a good one on Android.
  10. #50  
    gl to them making anything with the hardware division being sold off and loads of people out of a job, suppose its doable, provided you dont mind the newer touchpads being made out of printer parts.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by wynand32 View Post
    But that's just the thing. Let's say--and this is WILDLY optimistic--that HP manages to end up with a full 1 million TouchPads in users' hands following the fire sale. I'd say, somewhere in the low- to mid-100s of thousands is more likely, but let's say it's a million.

    That is NOT a significant market for developers. Sorry, but it's just not. Particularly when it's a DEAD market, with no new users coming in the foreseeable future. Developers are looking at iOS with 100+ million users and Android with 100+ users, and even WP7 with a few million but a decent enough outlook for future growth, and seeing THOSE as significant markets.

    Come on, folks, a million users is nothing. A drop in the bucket. Not nearly enough to entice major developers to port apps to webOS. And I doubt even hardcore niche webOS devs will stick around.
    With the small amount of effort that it takes to port most apps from iOS to webOS I think we will see some new stuff popping up. Even if you only sell your app to a 3rd of the user base and charge $2-$3 for it your going to make quite a lot of money for very little effort.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by VaccPalm View Post
    Just look at Viewsonic when they dumped off the Gtablet. they sold something like 10,000 in a few days at woot.com and they made promises to support it. 2 months later they dropped there support. The Gtablet was the best selling tablet for a while at Amazon when they also dumped them for $270 . There were probally more users using Gtablets then Ipads for a time. Meant nothing. HP will not make anymore and a year from now most of these tablets will be sitting on a shelg collecting dust . Just my opinion.
    Why is that? Because in a years time they will all of a sudden stop surfing the web, emailing, synergizing all your accounts, messaging, playing movies, etc? Some people don't care about thousands of apps. They just want something cheap that they can use out of the box.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    Why is that? Because in a years time they will all of a sudden stop surfing the web, emailing, synergizing all your accounts, messaging, playing movies, etc? Some people don't care about thousands of apps. They just want something cheap that they can use out of the box.
    Until their friends next to them with Android devices and iPads are playing with apps you can't even get and will never get now on the Touchpad. My old HEAVY laptop from 1999 can surf, email, sync my accounts, message people and play movies. Do I use it? Are you crazy? That pile of junk is used for a table stabilizer in the garage.

    I think my parents will greatly enjoy the two Touchpads I bought for them. As long as their friends don't start shoving iPads in their face.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Sell the app for $10 dollars. Make $10 million dollars in one pop. Of course 3 million of that goes to HP.

    If you don't think folks will pay $10 for an office suite, think again. I had to pay $14 for a good one on Android.
    The people the $99 Touchpads sold to are not going to be spending any money on apps, not in any large fashion at all anyway. Android users are cheapskates to begin with, imagine people not even able to afford a decent tablet from scratch, why would they pay at all?

    People who are using iPads are throwing money at apps. Not so much on Android and not at all in the least on WebOS.
  15. #55  
    Just throwing this out there. I purchased a 32g TP Saturday morning. I have been playing around with it and I like it. Installed Preware and some of the patches and the thing flies now. I like it so much that I bought a case and a touchstone after work yesterday. I still need to get into the app catalog but I plan on spending some money there as well.
    My phone is a rooted, romed, themed EVO 4G. My phone is Android and I want to keep it that way but I would not mind at all if my tablet is webOS. I have no illusions about the OS being around in the future but I believe it has a future if someone is willing to pick it up off the ground and dust it off and give it a chance. There are hundreds of thousands of peeps out there getting a taste of webOS, if they are like me they are going to be surprised and perhaps bummed that they won't be able to look forward to more.
    Perhaps the TouchPad burning out will be a way to not let webOS fade away.
    Here's to wishful thinking.
    k4ever likes this.
  16. #56  
    According to iSuppli, the BoM for the 16 Touchpad is $296 plus another $10 to screw it together - or $306 in total. So, on the face of it, to make more to sell at $99, they would lose over $200 per unit.

    It might be that HP can negotiate a better price than that suggested by iSuppli - but if the tablets are retailing for $99, HP won't see anywhere near $99 per tablet sold - so lets stick with a figure of $200 per tablet.

    How many apps would a tablet user have to buy for HP to get their $200 back? And how many purchasers would buy that many apps?

    For many people, tablets are mainly just more convenient way to check emails, surf the web and playback media than booting up the laptop. Early adopters who paid full whack are more likely to take a greater interest in exploring their fondleslab's capabilities, and investing in the platform. People who buy one so that they can check facebook while their other half is hogging the laptop, aren't going to invest several times the cost of the tablet buying apps for what appears to them to be a dead platform.

    Presumably the losses on the tablets already made will be a drop in the ocean compared to the money spent developing them. If HP sold off their inventory at $200 a throw, they'd struggle to find too many people willing to invest that much in a platform that they (HP) had just killed off. At $99 it was a deal too good to pass up on (for those that managed to get their hands on them). It also allows HP to put the hardware behind them and move on.

    The increased customer base can't hurt the platform's future, but $200 a pop is way too expensive to buy hearts and minds. Building more Touchpads would just be throwing money away.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    They never announced the DEATH of webOS. They have said time and time again that they are keeping the operating system, supporting it, and looking for licensing partners. At least that is what they said. Whether or not any of us should believe them is debatable. However, they did not announce any plans to kill the OS so lets gets that statement right.
    They didn't announced death of webOS, HP had just sentenced it to death by comment they are shutting down hardware development and by frantic firesales over the world, not announcing their plans for hiring new programmers as a proof for this new focus on software.
    WebOS faithfuls somehow are finding this stock liquidation to be productive for webOS, but it's just a sign that HP doesn't want to spend a dime on webOS devices holding up space in warehouses and stores, and that HP doesn't want to invest any new money in failed cause.
    In Thursday we have herd the news. OK, so, if you are saying HP will not drop webOS, when do you expect to hear from HP that they are hiring thousands of new programmers and doubling down webOS software? Man, Dewitt just said they have no idea what to do.
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