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  1. doctj's Avatar
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       #1  
    According to anandtech unlike what Dewitt's been spouting, the TP had more than capable hardware to run webOS like a champ. It's still not optimised and which hardware manufacture is going to take a gamble on running it on their hardware?. The fact that HP didn't announce a hardware partner before terminating the webos hardware group speaks volumes.
    Of course the weight, lack of rear camera, finger print magnet are a separate point of discussion.
    Pre 3
    HP touchpad
    Uberkernel running @ 1.5 Ghz
  2. #2  
    You left out the lack of video out and usb in. Those are nice features that Androids have. WebOS does run pretty well though, that is true. So does video and flash.

    WebOS is an excellent operating system I'm finding, but its tough to compete when the others are well established. You have to outdo them somehow to even stand a chance, and the Touchpad never did.
  3. #3  
    Hardware problem can be understood as they didnt have enough resources to develop both- hardware and software, so hardware was holding off software.
    Last edited by chalx; 08/21/2011 at 02:05 PM.
  4. #4  
    Yeah but how long have we been hearing that webOS is not "optimized?" if it's not optimized 3 years in when will it be? As much as I love webOS it's just been one clusterf*** after another with it.
  5. #5  
    i see you're a week 1 owner. BE sure to :
    1. update to webos 3.0.2
    2. install preware (search around to figure out how)
    3. search for patches to help improve touchpad speed
    4. uberkernal and govanah

    My point is : webosinternals already have come up with some fixes to TP software including overclocking. All's someone has to do is fold those into the next set of OS code and there you go.

    i.e. it's probably not hard to optimize for whoever develops it next.
    bevcraw likes this.
  6. doctj's Avatar
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       #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo-filter View Post
    You left out the lack of video out and usb in. Those are nice features that Androids have. WebOS does run pretty well though, that is true. So does video and flash.

    WebOS is an excellent operating system I'm finding, but its tough to compete when the others are well established. You have to outdo them somehow to even stand a chance, and the Touchpad never did.
    Agreed I've mentioned lack of hdmi and USB in were potentially fatal flaws in the hardware design in this forum.
    Pre 3
    HP touchpad
    Uberkernel running @ 1.5 Ghz
  7. doctj's Avatar
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       #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberprashant View Post
    i see you're a week 1 owner. BE sure to :
    1. update to webos 3.0.2
    2. install preware (search around to figure out how)
    3. search for patches to help improve touchpad speed
    4. uberkernal and govanah

    My point is : webosinternals already have come up with some fixes to TP software including overclocking. All's someone has to do is fold those into the next set of OS code and there you go.

    i.e. it's probably not hard to optimize for whoever develops it next.
    Didn't you see uberkernel in my Sig? Despite all the patches, 3.02 and OC'ing it still lags at times and I'm getting TMC error much more frequently now.
    Pre 3
    HP touchpad
    Uberkernel running @ 1.5 Ghz
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by doctj View Post
    Agreed I've mentioned lack of hdmi and USB in were potentially fatal flaws in the hardware design in this forum.
    I too agree on that.
  9. #9  
    The hardware is not responsible for the lousy WebKit implementation. The story of WebOS has always been inadequate hardware coupled with devs who don't understand the mechanics of OS design. What WebOS does right is understand how users interact with technology. I had really hoped the HP was going to bring devs who understand the technology side of things; instead it brought executives who only understand quarterly statements :-(
    kkhanmd and torifile like this.
  10. #10  
    WebOS is not a utilitarian OS like Android. If you want a barebones OS in terms of UI that does alot very quickly, go with Android.

    WebOS is more for those who do not care for all the bells and whistles and just want a device that automagically pulls all their information (Synergy) into one easy to use and understand interface.

    There is no doubt that WebOS has fallen behind in development. But really that is not the fault of WebOS, that is the fault of poor management at HP.

    If a hardware company scooped it up and were willing to spend a lot of money on development, it still would have a chance.

    Not sure if anyone is willing to take that gamble now.

    We know for one thing though, if you want to increase its mindshare, sell your first tablet for $99 from the getgo. Incur losses, but then get the marketshare out on the street and in peoples hands so developers jump on board.
  11. spotter's Avatar
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    #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    WebOS is more for those who do not care for all the bells and whistles and just want a device that automagically pulls all their information (Synergy) into one easy to use and understand interface.
    as an original user of the Pre, I don't see how this feature is really that unique to web os.

    i.e. I've since moved to android for my phone (though I was hoping for a web os tablet), and it pulls all the information from my different contact sources (google, facebook, linkedin....) and corrolates them together automatically. In addition, android is open about this, so anyone can implement this functionality, while in webos (at least my experience w/ my original pre), wasn't extensible by developers.

    I really don't get why people think synergy is so unique anymore.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by cyberprashant View Post
    i see you're a week 1 owner. BE sure to :
    1. update to webos 3.0.2
    2. install preware (search around to figure out how)
    3. search for patches to help improve touchpad speed
    4. uberkernal and govanah

    My point is : webosinternals already have come up with some fixes to TP software including overclocking. All's someone has to do is fold those into the next set of OS code and there you go.

    i.e. it's probably not hard to optimize for whoever develops it next.
    Most users really don't want to, or can't, do that kind of tinkering though.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by nyuepik View Post
    The hardware is not responsible for the lousy WebKit implementation. The story of WebOS has always been inadequate hardware coupled with devs who don't understand the mechanics of OS design.(
    That is what killed webOS. it doesn't matter what hardware you put under webOS, in some point it will under perform, ruining usability. WebOS was always bragging with UX denying fact that responsiveness, fast loading times of apps and smooth user interface are important part of UX.
    When HP bought Palm I thought webOS would be completely re written.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    That is what killed webOS. it doesn't matter what hardware you put under webOS, in some point it will under perform, ruining usability. WebOS was always bragging with UX denying fact that responsiveness, fast loading times of apps and smooth user interface are important part of UX.
    When HP bought Palm I thought webOS would be completely re written.
    It was completely rewritten.

    The underlying code was changed from Java to NodeJS.

    This was supposed to make things easier for developers as well as bring about speed and efficiency, but as far as I can tell all it brought was more bloat and more bugs (losing the photo or music Indexing Service anyone?)

    Some transitions were modified to Advanced CSS3 to add hardware accelerated visuals, but this turned out to be a huge undertaking for other parts of the OS (as well as the SDK for hardware accelerated apps) and thus HP did not bother adding any more Advanced CSS in the OS for 3.0 because they believed that a dual core 1.2Ghz CPU would be able to handle the visuals.

    I guess they were wrong.
    Last edited by rmausser; 08/21/2011 at 01:21 PM.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by spotter View Post
    as an original user of the Pre, I don't see how this feature is really that unique to web os.

    i.e. I've since moved to android for my phone (though I was hoping for a web os tablet), and it pulls all the information from my different contact sources (google, facebook, linkedin....) and corrolates them together automatically. In addition, android is open about this, so anyone can implement this functionality, while in webos (at least my experience w/ my original pre), wasn't extensible by developers.

    I really don't get why people think synergy is so unique anymore.
    Synergy is an API that is available to developers.

    I have used Android and the implementation of other services is not nearly as transparent as WebOS.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    It was completely rewritten.

    The underlying code was changed from Java to NodeJS.
    I believe some of the services were rewritten, but I am pretty sure the WebKit engine, including the rendering code, was not completely rewritten. It was optimized for the Qualcomm chip, and some improvements around the edges were made, but I never read anywhere that the C code running the browser (the most important part of WebOS), was changed that much.
  17. #17  
    webOSInternals can't help me get these apps running on a TouchPad:

    1. Netflix
    2. Nook client
    3. Audible client
    4. Rhapsody client
    5. Shazam
    6. Layar (and of course no camera)
    7. Sugarsync
    8. CoPilot navigation (and of course no GPS chip)
    9. Etc., etc., etc.

    People who talk about how homebrew will save webOS are thinking in terms of hobbyists, not people who want a device that will support all of today's (and tomorrow's) functionality.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
    nyuepik likes this.
  18. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    It was completely rewritten.

    The underlying code was changed from Java to NodeJS.

    This was supposed to make things easier for developers as well as bring about speed and efficiency, but as far as I can tell all it brought was more bloat and more bugs (losing the photo or music Indexing Service anyone?)

    Some transitions were modified to Advanced CSS3 to add hardware accelerated visuals, but this turned out to be a huge undertaking for other parts of the OS (as well as the SDK for hardware accelerated apps) and thus HP did not bother adding any more Advanced CSS in the OS for 3.0 because they believed that a dual core 1.2Ghz CPU would be able to handle the visuals.

    I guess they were wrong.
    The only hardware accelerated CSS transition that was added was translate3d. Scale and rotate were never hardware accelerated, which really annoyed me.
  19. #19  
    I've used both OS's as well, and its implementation on webOS compared to they syncing ability on android is not a feature that would woo me away from android or keep me committed to webOS. I've never seen it as a great selling point, and I know for awhile, synergy was more annoying because the options of it were limited with more of a "all or nothing" type thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    Synergy is an API that is available to developers.

    I have used Android and the implementation of other services is not nearly as transparent as WebOS.
    Pixi: Sold. Pre: Passed off to another rep. Touchpad: Just a toy until Cloud syncing arrives, and a better doc editor.
  20. Dune#AC's Avatar
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    #20  
    New here. Hello PreCentral!

    Anand does good technical writing. The analysis simply shows why the OS is slower than the competition. As a new Touchpad owner, I was glad to understand why this new hardware was rendering websites so much more slowly than my 1.5 year-old single core android phone. WebOS excels at UI simplicity. It lags in all other arenas. It doesn't matter whose 'fault' it is. It is just the way it is.

    I AM SO HAPPY to have a Touchpad! It is not an industry leading product, but it's a cool experiment in UI design with a good screen, email, and browsing capability. Too bad Palm never had the support to fulfill it's potential! As it is, I hope someone buys it from HP and does something innovative with it.

    I look forward to exploring more ideas here with you all!
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