HP Best Buy rep. 'Watch for Samsung or HTC'

[jondough]

I have always been very fond of all my Palm devices. None have failed me. I love my TP! I think that HP killing webOS devices was more part of the master idiots plan to kill H&HO and SMB than anything. Few knew. Everyone was shocked. And the only reason to keep printers is low liability, minimal support but mostly because cartridges is a money machine and probably much is outsourced. [I fill my own @ about $3-4 a set of 5 where many pay $40-60]. So if you look at it this way, webOS is great, the hardware is not as bad as portrayed and there has to be someone in the wings that sees this, or hopefully already has. It is still early.

[wynand32]

Originally Posted by shingi_70

So why wouldn't Oems just go with WP7 that already has good number of apps and is being used by LG, Samsung, and HTC.

Worse comes to worse we see the Handset alliance + Microsoft Jointly buy Palms patents.

Yes, this. If they did drop Android, why would HTC & Samsung not opt for the far more established option of WP7? Particularly when, as pointed out, at least HTC is already paying Microsoft license fees for every Android phone they ship? Frankly, WP7 with Microsoft's backing is a legitimate player with an established ecosystem.

I just don't see the value of webOS here, particularly as I learn more about how little it's actually advanced in the last two years in its underpinnings.

[falconrap]

Oh good grief. WP7? Really? And how well is WP7 selling? Not very. The interface is another love it or hate it type with a lot of limited appeal. webOS appeals to a broader audience, but most people either had no clue it existed (until now!) or thought the hardware was crappy.

If WP7 isn't selling, and Android is in such deep trouble that Verizon's chief counsel is trying to get the President to intervened to stop the ITC from banning Android imports, then clearly both of these options have serious issues. webOS has never really had the hardware side and carrier support to be successful. If players like Samsung and HTC decide to go this route, and Android becomes a problem to carry for the carriers, I think you could see webOS take off.

We'll see.

[merphie]

You forget webOS had it's chance. Sprint had an exclusive contract to sell the Pre for 6 months. They got so burned on it that they no longer carry Palm/HP products. Sprint probably won't carry a webOS phone ever again. I'm sure AT&T is feeling burned because of the Pre 3. Regardless the arguments you made against WP7 applies to webOS too.

Maybe WP7 isn't selling but Microsoft isn't just throwing it to garbage can. They are pushing hard and heavy. Keep in mind they have some major monsters to compete with and webOS was facing the same problem until HP pulled the plug. The biggest problem with anything is going to be the name recognition that Apple and Android have. I would agree that WP7 is different but that's because iPhone, Android and webOS are very similar in their interface. I got to see them all side by side at the store.

webOS current has no backing since it doesn't have a hardware platform. HTC said they had no interest in webOS and Samsung seems to be distancing itself too. This doesn't really leave anyone who could put enough muscle behind webOS to make it something. Since it appears that HP is having trouble finding a hardware platform I would wager that webOS is going to die.

As Wyna stated there have been major problems with the previous versions. webOS versions are not backwards compatible. The reviewers have been a huge pain recently and honestly I was considering ditching webOS over those facts alone. It seems like HP created these issues and then threw developers under the bus when it comes to users. Those intial 1.4.5 users are just screwed. I suspect the 2.1 users will face the same fate. Let us not forget that the developer app revenue was flawed and inaccurate.

That being said I do love webOS and hate to see it die.

[milominderbinder]

Originally Posted by falconrap

...If players like Samsung and HTC decide to go this route, and Android becomes a problem to carry for the carriers, I think you could see webOS take off.

We'll see.

Samsung licensed Palm patents from Acacia this past March.

[Guru]

Hell, I'm not really that impressed with WebOS at all.

[falconrap]

Originally Posted by milominderbinder

Samsung licensed Palm patents from Acacia this past March.

That protects Samsung in limited fashion. It doesn't protect Android phones, as Android isn't provided under an umbrella. Apple is going to do everything in it's power to strangle Android. If it succeeds, and the patent cases appear to be headed that way, then Android will become moot in the US. Carriers will have to move on.

[crogs571]

I own a pre and pixi. I've played with the Pre Plus. All are beyond lackluster. Not to mention the Apple like designs with fixed memory, no card slot, small screens and such. Throw the cheap use of plastics and slide mechnisms into the mix.

And my Epic is about to get Gingerbread which would give it two major OS updates in it's run. Seriously bringing up the Moment? Show me one of the original 1.5 Android phones in the US that received better support? Hero or Eris? Sorry, but no. Take your pick of the Sony phones. Support stunk there too. None of the 1st gen android phones received good support in the US. They were underpowered and running a version that had to be patched to even work on CDMA. Every company couldn't wait to abandon them and move on.

There is a difference between licensing an OS and getting it for free. They wouldn't have free reign to do with as they please like they can with Android.

Originally Posted by narcoleptic

I've had a Pre Plus, and currently have a Pre 2. About the only thing I've found lacking was the camera.

I've also had a original iPhone, and my wife has a 3GS. I have an original iPad, which was given to my kids after I bought my TouchPad. I've handled and used a iPad 2.

I'm not making these comments from a position of not knowing (or ignoring) what else there is in the market.

You really don't want Samsung as a hardware manufacturer. A large amount of their Android phones are terrible and do not receive much support. Ask Moment or original Galaxy owners about Samsung. While there was a good amount of carrier pushed apps on those phones, stupendous decisions like a proprietary file system that caused hangs are the tip of the iceberg. Don't think for a minute that Samsung wouldn't try it with a webOS phone.

[looktall]

webOS with HTC Sense would have been interesting.

[sinsin07]

Originally Posted by falconrap

Oh good grief. WP7? Really? And how well is WP7 selling? Not very. The interface is another love it or hate it type with a lot of limited appeal. webOS appeals to a broader audience, but most people either had no clue it existed (until now!) or thought the hardware was crappy.

If WP7 isn't selling, and Android is in such deep trouble that Verizon's chief counsel is trying to get the President to intervened to stop the ITC from banning Android imports, then clearly both of these options have serious issues. webOS has never really had the hardware side and carrier support to be successful. If players like Samsung and HTC decide to go this route, and Android becomes a problem to carry for the carriers, I think you could see webOS take off.

We'll see.

Your whole future depends on If. We can apply If to webos, It Failed. Unfortunately, it is destined to be relegated to a hobbyist platform for mobile devices, a curious enigma sort of like all the free linux distros floating around.

[jus2bhere]

I don't think webOS is entirely dead. If google loses the fight with Oracle (which many are predicting to varying degree) that would open a big can of worms and webOS would allow an alternative option.

My problem with Android and the tablet market is there has been very little innovation there and thats one reason why manufacturers have been failing miserably in this market. 5 different tablets running the same OS is unoriginal. The only difference between devices is pretty much processor, screen resolution and memory which are things the average consumer doesn't really give a damn about. The ipad is successful because it is a unique user experience. Tablets are not PCs and are considered more intimate to users. The webOS was about the closest thing to give it a run for the money but HP's plan was deeply faulted. They came to the market late with a rushed product ( hardware & software) and mistakenly thought it would take off quickly.

[crogs571]

It might be more intimate than a laptop, but it was easy to create an ipad ecosystem because it was such a small departure from the iphone and people that like apple, like apple and will just buy anything with the logo on it. Android isn't going to be able to remove the clunkiness of 2.x and build that ecosystem in such a short time frame. And mfgs were also rushing to get these tablets out the door, hence the limited Tegra 2 is everywhere. The next generation should get better. But seriously, how many ways can you make a slate? The ipad is one device and you talk about differentiation. Do you want racing stripes, tinted windows and ground effects? It's a slate. It's a big piece of glass surrounded by a combination of plastic and metal. We want them thin and with lots of connectivity. Just don't make them ugly, and they'll do just fine. You have the Thinkpad slate which is such a departure from any of the tablets out there, industrial just like the rest of their thinkpad line. You have the Transformer which is unique with it's keyboard dock. Nobody else is doing that. Even the Acer Windows tablet doesn't become a true laptop with it's dock, not to mention its design leaves you wanting. The Galaxy Tab is uber thin with great curves. Those three alone show differentiation and all appeal to a different crowd.

Can't disagree on the treatment of webOS. It deserved/deserves better. It's more at home on a tablet than android is.

[falconrap]

Originally Posted by sinsin07

Your whole future depends on If. We can apply If to webos, It Failed. Unfortunately, it is destined to be relegated to a hobbyist platform for mobile devices, a curious enigma sort of like all the free linux distros floating around.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...but everything in life, other than death, and mostly taxes (unless you know the loop holes), is uncertain.

Of course, the WP7 isn't really selling. It's in the same boat as webOS except webOS just got a boatload of attention with the fire sale. And, of course, WP7 isn't free either. But, as I've said before, WP7's interface is more a love it or hate it affair. If I show 100 people webOS in all it's glory, I would venture to say that 90 of them would at least like, and most would be impressed. If I did the same with WP7, I think the number would be more around 60. Personally, I don't like the tile concept at all, and know quite a few others that don't either.

I can't say the same for webOS. Everyone I know who's seen it likes it.

[jrstinkfish]

WP7 phones are still being produced, and will be for a long time. Microsoft is pushing WP7 as hard as they can. I can't say the same for webOS. Nifty as it is, it's not long for this world.

[crogs571]

+1 on not caring for WP7. It's such a limiting OS. Those tiles just waste so much space. Any sort of customization just falls short. It's fluid and fairly fast, but that's about it. Home screen is horrible. App drawer is horrible. Shame because the Venue Pro was pretty slick outside of a locking alt button. Definitely a chore having to hit the alt key before typing every single number. Drove me bonkers.

[NickA]

WP7 isn't even a year old yet. Microsoft knows it's an uphill battle. First because the old windows mobile has such a bad reputation, and second because of iOS and Android. But the have the $$, the know how and the patients. They know it's a long race. Gartner group (and others) have them being a major player in a year or two. And they are welcomed in the Enterprise. And oh yeah, Nokia is now teamed up with them.

WP7 is here to stay. And there are some nice phones coming out, and some ex webOS developers to create apps for them.

[cdoty]

Originally Posted by jrstinkfish

WP7 phones are still being produced, and will be for a long time. Microsoft is pushing WP7 as hard as they can. I can't say the same for webOS. Nifty as it is, it's not long for this world.

Microsoft understands the concepts of taking a loss to get their product into the market. They did it with the XBox, and are doing it with WP7.

On a side note, more relevant to the thread, I wonder if the Apple Samsung lawsuit scared HP? Maybe they didn't want to get tied up in that so they decided to dump the hardware.

[shoichikun808]

Originally Posted by cdoty

Microsoft understands the concepts of taking a loss to get their product into the market. They did it with the XBox, and are doing it with WP7.

On a side note, more relevant to the thread, I wonder if the Apple Samsung lawsuit scared HP? Maybe they didn't want to get tied up in that so they decided to dump the hardware.

well HP does own a lot of valuable patents they can use to defend lawsuits by Apple if it came to that point unlike companies like Samsung, etc.

[FischOderAal]

I agree that WP7 is too much eyecandy. However, I think when I have to choose between iOS, Android and WP7 I'd probably go WP7...

I don't like the way Apple is doing business and I don't like the fragmentation of Android. I don't want to have to check if the app works my phone, or find a great app and then it does not run on my phone...

Furthermore, I think Microsoft has the biggest chance of creating a unified experience on all devices: computer, tablet, phone.

[falconrap]

Originally Posted by cdoty

Microsoft understands the concepts of taking a loss to get their product into the market. They did it with the XBox, and are doing it with WP7.

On a side note, more relevant to the thread, I wonder if the Apple Samsung lawsuit scared HP? Maybe they didn't want to get tied up in that so they decided to dump the hardware.

Palm has the mother of all smartphone patents. It's a huge patent that pretty much describes everything a smartphone can do. If Apple went after HP, it would risk having to pay licensing fees for the smartphone. Not too mention large fines for past infringement. Considering the value that smartphones brought to Apple, they could, realistically, loose most of their liquidity in a single judgement.