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  1.    #1  
    So I've been all over town, all over the web, and held for 15 minutes with HP only to find that there is a Touch Pad nowhere to be found. Want to compete with Apple? Find the right price point for the product and you can compete. I think this sell out could have happened at a higher price point but it's HP's money. Now think of how many webOS devices just hit the market overnight. <<mod delete>>
    Last edited by bevcraw; 08/20/2011 at 01:13 PM. Reason: language
  2. micahdg's Avatar
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    #2  
    Huh?
  3. NickA's Avatar
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by MicahDG View Post
    Huh?
    Dude, he's saying if you want to compete with Apple you don't necessarily need a better product; just a better price. If they released the 16GB TouchPad for 149.00 bucks I think it would be selling like hotcakes.
    kjb86 likes this.
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by NickA View Post
    Dude, he's saying if you want to compete with Apple you don't necessarily need a better product; just a better price. If they released the 16GB TouchPad for 149.00 bucks I think it would be selling like hotcakes.
    HP never realized that they were selling game consoles. Apple does and its why the iPad is cheap (in their world). They make their money the same as the PS3, off of games.
  5. #5  
    The thing is; the 32gb version of the Touchpad costs HP about $330, so even if they want to sell it a loss, a price point below $300 is hardly viable.
    Of course now it's all useless, HP has failed.
    But I agree with you, just find the correct price point. If the 16GB had hit the market at $299, the story would have been a lot different.
  6. #6  
    hindsight is 20/20. yeah it would have sold like crazy, but the touchpad also cost over $300 in parts. theyd need to convince people that selling them at that big a loss was a good idea (obviously now its evident that 500 was not the correct price either).

    they could have done a lot of things better.

    had they released 3.0.2 at launch, with a price tag of $300....who knows. i just dont see companies rushing out to make products and selling them at half of what the parts alone cost.
  7. cgk
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    #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    HP never realized that they were selling game consoles. Apple does and its why the iPad is cheap (in their world). They make their money the same as the PS3, off of games.
    Except this is a myth - app makes 20% of its revenue off apps (across all platforms) and the rest in hardware off decent margins. Sure you can beat apps sales with a cheap tablet but your margins will be awful or in HP's case you take a complete bath and lose hundreds of dollars per unit.

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Titan078 View Post
    HP never realized that they were selling game consoles. Apple does and its why the iPad is cheap (in their world). They make their money the same as the PS3, off of games.
    Not true, Apple is still making money off of each iPad sold and partly because they have such a tight control over the hardware-software integration and somehow manages to pump out better performance on a lesser hardware.

    Look at all the Android (and even TouchPad) tablets advertising higher clocked Dual Core CPU with 1GB ram compared to A5 clocked at 900Mhz with meagre 512MB of RAM, compare how they run in real life situations.

    And regards to Apple making money on games, I heard that Apple only takes 14% of the sale made not 30% and rest goes to credit card companies and processing (storing and serving apps from their App Store server) CHART OF THE DAY: Here's How Much Apple REALLY Makes On The App Store
    It's not like Sony, (or more so Nintendo since most best seller on Nintendo system are their own games) where they sell $60 games and earn $15-20 licensing fee on each copy sold.

    Not that Apple isn't making much money off App Store, they make lots, but not enough to purely rely on it to support their hardware business.
  9. #9  
    @CGK and gabe2gg....You very well may be right, but it is literally how the current game console market works.
  10. #10  
    This price is just insane, but even the occasional 300/400 sale like at staples would have been great. They should have done what sony did with the ps3, sold at a loss knowing that having marketshare selling apps/games to make the difference, then when newer products come out (like ps3 slim) they become cheaper to produce, or in HP's case they can start to charge a premium for newer/improved hardware camera/processor/build quality etc.

    If they had even introduced it at 399/499 I'm sure most of the reviews would have said, TP not as good as the ipad, but is alot cheaper and totally worth the difference. Instead most reviews were, not as good at the ipad, and they're trying to charge the same amount o_O
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    Except this is a myth - app makes 20% of its revenue off apps (across all platforms) and the rest in hardware off decent margins. Sure you can beat apps sales with a cheap tablet but your margins will be awful or in HP's case you take a complete bath and lose hundreds of dollars per unit.

    Sent from my ZTE-BLADE using Tapatalk
    Totally Right. Except it's 30% off of apps. iPad Cost about 250 to make and they sell it for 500. That's 50% right there.
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by Thierry19 View Post
    The thing is; the 32gb version of the Touchpad costs HP about $330, so even if they want to sell it a loss, a price point below $300 is hardly viable.
    Of course now it's all useless, HP has failed.
    But I agree with you, just find the correct price point. If the 16GB had hit the market at $299, the story would have been a lot different.
    HP should have sold the thing at cost or even a little under. Then with the next touchpad (or with phones) release start making profit. Selling at cost = more WebOS in more consumers hands without a loss. Plus they could make some money off the apps. They were silly to price point it at where they did. They were even sillier to give up after only discounting it $100. That's not going to change anyone's mind. $250 will start to get people thinking.

    16 should have been $250
    32gb should have been $300
  13. #13  
    HP should have done what game console companies(i.e: Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft) do and sell the systems at a small-medium priced loss(at least $50-100, I believe the original PS3 was sold at a steeper loss after the original price drop from $699) but make up that money through other revenue streams(applications, accessories, etc) like what game console companies do. Get a bigger market share at the cost of some early revenue(releasing the Touchpad at $199 for 16gb and $299 for 32gb but advertise the heck out of it to get more sales)

    A thing that console makers have over electronic device makers like Apple, HTC, etc is that they can release a device every 4 or so years and by the end of the 4 years are ending up making money off their consoles, while electronic device makers end up having to release a device every year.

    One thing Apple has over everyone in terms of the phone and tablet market is that they are seen as "cool"(for example my friend said she likes Apple and buys only Apple products(she has the iPhone, a Mac Pro, and a iPad) because she says they are the biggest brand out there and nobody can beat them...her BF is a heavy Window's guy :P). Apple cannot compete that well in the PC market because just like Google in the phone market(multiplied by a few thousands or so) there are so many Window OS PC makers that they control a vast majority of it (I believe it was like 90% of the world's market or so)
    Last edited by shoichikun808; 08/20/2011 at 01:52 PM.
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  14. #14  
    The lesson is don't be an early adpoter.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by dong1225 View Post
    Not true, Apple is still making money off of each iPad sold and partly because they have such a tight control over the hardware-software integration and somehow manages to pump out better performance on a lesser hardware.

    Look at all the Android (and even TouchPad) tablets advertising higher clocked Dual Core CPU with 1GB ram compared to A5 clocked at 900Mhz with meagre 512MB of RAM, compare how they run in real life situations.

    And regards to Apple making money on games, I heard that Apple only takes 14% of the sale made not 30% and rest goes to credit card companies and processing (storing and serving apps from their App Store server) CHART OF THE DAY: Here's How Much Apple REALLY Makes On The App Store
    It's not like Sony, (or more so Nintendo since most best seller on Nintendo system are their own games) where they sell $60 games and earn $15-20 licensing fee on each copy sold.

    Not that Apple isn't making much money off App Store, they make lots, but not enough to purely rely on it to support their hardware business.
    Dont forget about music movies accessories blah blah blah. They take a piece of everything in their Eco system.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by shoichikun808 View Post
    HP should have done what game console companies(i.e: Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft) do and sell the systems at a small loss(50-100 or so, I believe the original PS3 was sold at a steeper loss after the original price drop from $699) but make up that money through other revenue streams(applications, accessories, etc). Get a bigger market share at the cost of some early revenue(releasing the Touchpad at $299 for 16gb and $399 for 32gb but advertise the heck out of it to get more sales)

    One thing that console makers have over electronic makers like Apple, HTC, etc is that they can release a device every 4 or so years and by the end of the 4 years are ending up making money off their consoles, while electronic makers end up having to release a device every year.
    They still make money off of content purchased on old devices. No one is throwing iPads away. They go to kids or Ebay.
  17. cgk
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by jcohengd View Post
    Totally Right. Except it's 30% off of apps. iPad Cost about 250 to make and they sell it for 500. That's 50% right there.

    I think 30% is their cut in the app store rather than what percentage of overall revenue it is for the company?
  18. #18  
    Video games sell for $60 a pop. Nobody is getting rich on the razor blade model at 99 cents each.
  19. #19  
    Theres a huge difference between HP and Sony, and I believe people seem to be unaware of it.

    Sony had to release the PS3 at a loss, in order to pick up a portion of the market before Xbox took all of it. It came out a year after the Xbox 360. It was rushed, a pain to develop on, and cost them a lot. However, it was their only chance to get any sort of foot in the door before it closed. Since 2005, Ps3 has never caught up to xbox, or gotten remotely close, in America at least.

    Now, HP is completely late to the dance. Its been a year and a half since the Ipad came out. They release their product with lackluster app support, laggy ui, to mixed reviews. Even the better reviews find negatives and it was hardly recommended.

    The door had already closed on HP. The difference between the Sony PS3 / HP thing is that Sony had a huge fanbase. It wasn't some cult following like webOS. The Ps1 and Ps2 were massively successful. People were waiting for the PS3. Aside from a couple thousand people, no one waited for webOS. People still have no idea what it is.

    Also one has to remember, its not like developing for the PS3. Video game developers can count on people buying the game if its launched on PS3 (assuming everything else is held constant...good game,good marketing...etc etc). App devs don't care about webOS...even if they sold 2 million units...youd need to convince the app devs that the webos users will pay for apps, while they could be developing for an ecosystem that controls 83% of the tablet market (and people actually buy the iphones, ipods, ipads, etc).

    Frankly, its been dieing slowly since the Pre-.
  20. #20  
    Was just reading somewhere that hp has offed over 350k of these things this weekend so far.

    Nuts!

    From zero to hero - the touchpad suddenly has a market and a userbase..... Still nowhere near ipad uptake, but incredible given the short amount of time the sale went on.
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