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  1. cgk
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    #21  
    And remember the mantra we kept hearing here when it was alive -

    "So the Touchpad doesn't have a lot of apps? Who needs apps, you can do it all through the browser?"

    So what has changed ? If the browser is so good, why is a cheap user going to buy an app?

    I believe the android platform suffers from this? The users spend a lot less than iphone/ipad users.
  2. #22  
    I don't know, I know many who didn't buy an iPad 2 until a jailbreak became available.
    By your logic, you would expect ppl investing $500 on a tablet to be equally willing to invest in apps.
  3. cgk
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    #23  
    By your logic, you would expect ppl investing $500 on a tablet to be equally willing to invest in apps.
    I think that's pretty much what's happened on iOS? The premium pricing keeps it out of the hands of cheapskates and therefore people are more likely to spend on apps.

    I know the head of MLB.com's developer team said that the ROI for android apps was poor because android users simply don't buy apps in the same way as iOS users.
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    #24  
    I was sad yesterday when I returned my $499 32G Touchpad to Best Buy. I felt like I had given up on a frined (although, HP gave up on me). I love the Webos platform and have been a supporter of it since the beginning (wife and I each own and still operate Pre-) as well as supporter of it at work (six co-workes own a Pre). However, without vision of future growth/support, I could not justify the $499 price.

    When the price is officially dropped to $149, I will buy it back in a heartbeat. For the price of a Kindle, a am getting a functional tablet for entertainment, forget about lack of doc editing. This is a value!

    I do believe value seekers will pay $0.99 to $5.00 for apps that add to their entertainment or functional lifestyle. This could be a boon for developers. Although I understand that they will still have a small market share to work with, even at 1 million users. But I believe value hunters will still by apps at their current pricepoint.

    BTW... before returning my TB yesterday, I used my $50 app credit, not knowing I would ever be able to use the apps, but making sure the developers got their due.
  5. cgk
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    #25  
    It's going to be hard to work out how many actual users there - I'm seeing a lot of reports of people buying six or seven at a go (maybe to flip?).
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    I agree. $99 Tablet user will not invest in apps so much.
    from what I remember about my first year economics course, price plays a huge role in buying psychology
    most apps cost $0.99 to $1.99
    folks will buy apps & having more TouchPad out in use can only help the app developers
    HP just sent out a HUGE Valentine to developers
    maybe the time has come for PreCentral to take the dunce cap off Leo
    the market has been flooded with devices like the TP & something radical had to be done if the TP was to have a chance
    this strategy just might work
    if we get behind it
    webOS is a superior platform & can succeed, though it is a bit of a longshot
    Apotheker recognized what is going on in the market & went radical
    getting a superior product into more hands is always sound marketing strategy word of mouth remains the most compelling means of swaying buyers opinions
  7. cgk
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    #27  
    this strategy just might work
    What strategy? This is a firesale, plain and simple - HP is taking a massive loss on the hardware so that they can put this whole mess behind them as quickly as possible.

    Apotheker recognized what is going on in the market & went radical
    Wait... you think the fire-sale, taking a loss of hundreds of million on the hardware and killing off the products is some sort of sneaky marketing plan?

    the market has been flooded with devices like the TP & something radical had to be done if the TP was to have a chance
    Dude, don't be mistaken what you are buying here - it's an EOL device that will provide a lot of value at the price it's being sold for (and with some real committed small time developers behind it) it's not a strategy for growth and success - it's the end of the line.
    sinsin07 and nyuepik like this.
  8. #28  
    This is what Palm/HP should have done from the very beginning after joining the ipad party so late...sell the product cheap , lose a little money now on it, but get the OS out there and build a large base that actually has some numbers to "compete" with the ipad. The competition isn't for the tablet, but the user base and "ecosystem." Once there are a lot of users, there are a lot of people looking for things to do with the products, like buy apps. Developers now can make apps that they can sell cheaper because there is a larger base (ie they don't have to sell 10 apps at $10 to make it worth while, they can sell 100 at $1). Now how many of the "cheapskates" would buy that $1 app? Oh, and guess who gets a cut of all the sales? HP, which is now more likely to make money on the touchpad than it ever was!
  9. #29  
    It's amazing what is happening.

    If only Apotheker hadn't announced at the conference call the end of WebOS this would have been the most brilliant move ever done on the technology market.

    Apotheker you would be remembered.
  10. cgk
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkumar99 View Post
    This is what Palm/HP should have done from the very beginning after joining the ipad party so late...sell the product cheap , lose a little money now on it, but get the OS out there and build a large base that actually has some numbers to "compete" with the ipad. The competition isn't for the tablet, but the user base and "ecosystem." Once there are a lot of users, there are a lot of people looking for things to do with the products, like buy apps. Developers now can make apps that they can sell cheaper because there is a larger base (ie they don't have to sell 10 apps at $10 to make it worth while, they can sell 100 at $1). Now how many of the "cheapskates" would buy that $1 app? Oh, and guess who gets a cut of all the sales? HP, which is now more likely to make money on the touchpad than it ever was!
    There are a number of problems with this theory -

    1) Apple have the biggest app store in the world and they only make 20% of their revenue off apps. The majority of their money is off the margins on the tablets.

    2) Selling the touchpad at $99 means that HP is losing maybe $200 dollars a tablet. They have also now established that the real value of a touchpad is $99. To build a base to compete with ipad using that strategy would cost billions of Dollars and lead to investors putting Leo on top of a bonfire. Also now you've established that the real market value of the touchpad is $99, you can't in future go back and make it $399 dollars, so you are committing yourself to a platform that losses hundreds of dollars with every unit you sell.

    This isn't some crafty strategy - this is a panicked dumping of a product that has failed and in a frankly crazy manner that poisons any attempts to licence it to anyone else.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  11. #31  
    Stop grasping the last straws... Even the last incentive for devs is now gone, thanks to the dumb way HP handled things. If the future was clear (i.e. there already was a good licensee, say HTC/Samsung) then yes, people might still be developing for webOS.

    With HP basically trashing the last chance of getting a licensee I don't see why anyone should develop quality apps for webOS.

    Quote Originally Posted by andresmmm View Post
    Apotheker you would be remembered.
    Now he will be remembered as well. As the worst CEO of all time. There are numerous ways he could've gotten out of it cheaper and give webOS a chance at surviving as well. With the way they did it now, there is barely any chance left. The only possible way I see is HTC/Samsung taking it, making an overhaul and rereleasing it under a new name.

    webOS as a commercial viable OS is dead, period.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  12. cgk
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by FischOderAal View Post
    Stop grasping the last straws... Even the last incentive for devs is now gone, thanks to the dumb way HP handled things.
    It's very strange, if HP actually though that someone was likely to licence this or buy it, then you'd try and keep it going while you looked for a buyer - the moves of the most recent days either indicate that everyone at HP has a really cheap supplier of crack or that they have already tried to licence it out and had no interest.
    sinsin07 likes this.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    There are a number of problems with this theory -

    1) Apple have the biggest app store in the world and they only make 20% of their revenue off apps. The majority of their money is off the margins on the tablets.

    2) Selling the touchpad at $99 means that HP is losing maybe $200 dollars a tablet. They have also now established that the real value of a touchpad is $99. To build a base to compete with ipad using that strategy would cost billions of Dollars and lead to investors putting Leo on top of a bonfire. Also now you've established that the real market value of the touchpad is $99, you can't in future go back and make it $399 dollars, so you are committing yourself to a platform that losses hundreds of dollars with every unit you sell.

    This isn't some crafty strategy - this is a panicked dumping of a product that has failed and in a frankly crazy manner that poisons any attempts to licence it to anyone else.

    Not claiming that this is the strategy that hp developed now, they are obviously too dumb for that...but if they had done this from the beginning (not necessarily $99, but maybe even $250 on day 1 -- ~$50 loss/device), and severely undercut the ipad pricing, given people an incentive to even look at the device, webos may have had a chance for success.
  14. cgk
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    #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkumar99 View Post
    Not claiming that this is the strategy that hp developed now, they are obviously too dumb for that...but if they had done this from the beginning (not necessarily $99, but maybe even $250 on day 1 -- ~$50 loss/device), and severely undercut the ipad pricing, given people an incentive to even look at the device, webos may have had a chance for success.
    Leo's brief was to increase margins, he was never going to sanction releasing any product that has to be sold at a loss. You have to look at this in the wider context, WebOS is only part of a wider picture at HP and the conclusion is that the margins are simply too thin in consumer electronics and they'd be better off sticking to higher margin enterprise software.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    It's very strange, if HP actually though that someone was likely to licence this or buy it, then you'd try and keep it going while you looked for a buyer - the moves of the most recent days either indicate that everyone at HP has a really cheap supplier of crack or that they have already tried to licence it out and had no interest.
    Yupp. From a management perspective, what HP did is strange and not a good way to do business. If I was a customer or shareholder of HP, I would rage havoc. They basically destroyed hundreds of millions of dollars of value (and potential) with no apparent reason. This does make HP's management look like stupid school boys. HP's share reflects that nobody understands why HP did what they did.
  16. #36  
    I hope the price cut comes to the UK
  17. cgk
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by kel101 View Post
    I hope the price cut comes to the UK
    I've been phoning around all the major retailers and HP - if it comes, it is likely to be monday and the discount is not going to be anything like the US one.
  18. sde
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    #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    I've been phoning around all the major retailers and HP - if it comes, it is likely to be monday and the discount is not going to be anything like the US one.
    Screw them then, it can go rot in landfill
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by jcohengd View Post
    While the iPad has a substantial user base, no one really expects the Touchpad to overtake the iPad. However, Android tablets are struggling too. If the firesale can get a million new WebOS users (and more importantly a million new WebOS TABLET users), that would make it a serious contender for second place.

    Check out my theory on this post: http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touc...rilliance.html
    Dude, there won't be another TouchPad made. Ever. I really doubt there are more than a few hundred thousand being sold in this fire sale. But even if a million were sold, then that just matches how many Asus Transformers have been sold (at standard retail pricing and with a fraction of the TouchPad's advertising budget), and half of all Honeycomb tablets that have been sold (at best).

    And so, best case scenario, it would be the #3 device behind the Asus, and also just edging out the Playbook as the #3 platform. For, what, a few days. Because, of course, Honeycomb tablet sales continue. There are something like 10 different Honeycomb tablets being made and actively sold. A product can't be a "contender" for anything when it's no longer being made.

    But, honestly, I can't believe we're even having this conversation. This isn't some strategy on HP's part to sneak up on the industry. It's a last-ditch effort to get rid of inventory that they couldn't sell at discounted prices, and it's costing them $100 million to do it. It's also HURTING webOS, because it's showing any potential suitor just what needs to be done to sell webOS devices--sell them at hundreds of dollars under cost.

    I know that folks really want webOS to survive, but the mental gyrations people are going through to convince themselves it still has a chance are amazing to watch.
    Treo 600 > Treo 650 > HTC Mogul (*****!) > HTC Touch Pro (***** squared!) > PRE! > Epic
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by palmpre06062009 View Post
    With the fire sale price of less than what it costs to get a shabby android phone, I am expecting 500K to 1mil potential new users to webOS platform. That should be a boom and good incentive for developers to continue to develop new apps and/or enhance their current offerings.

    Maybe webOS will survive after all. From the two interviews listed on Precentral, it appears that will continue to update and support webOS development and App catalog. It seems more and more likely that they will either license this platform not only for tablet and smartphones, but for many other devices. May be I am wishing and hoping too much. After last 24 hours feeling frustrated and miserable about webOS future, may be things may not be so bad. Doesn't hurt to hope that way. I am a legacy webOS user from day one Palm Pre and now TP, so would love to see webOS thrive and survive.

    Go webOS.
    How hilarious would it be if all of a sudden HP decided WebOS was worth it after getting 1/2 mil users into the ecosystem overnights...lmfao...
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