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  1. #41  
    I think hparsons point was that there are good and bad stories about the TouchPad sales numbers, but none of them can be validated.

    I can say that all stores around me sold out and then say that every store in the state sold out. Heck, I could say that I bought two and returned two because I hated them.

    Point is, just like the original Pre, you will likely never know what is real and what isn't. My guess is that the TouchPad sold well enough to warrant an improved model.
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  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by pogeypre View Post
    I think hparsons point was that there are good and bad stories about the TouchPad sales numbers, but none of them can be validated.

    I can say that all stores around me sold out and then say that every store in the state sold out. Heck, I could say that I bought two and returned two because I hated them.

    Point is, just like the original Pre, you will likely never know what is real and what isn't. My guess is that the TouchPad sold well enough to warrant an improved model.
    That why ppl put more weight on insiders numbers, especially when it can be compared from two different sources.

    One store sale cant show you a full picture, but the collective sales from the largest electronic company may be able to.

    Yes there are good and bad stories, except bad ones are more solid and with real numbers.

    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    In the end, the TouchPad is the same class of product as the iPad, selling in the same stores and frequently displayed side by side with the iPad at similar price points. If someone walks into a store wanting to buy a tablet that runs apps, browses the web, does a little bit of email, and enables things like video calling, the iPad is every bit as viable an option as the TouchPad. It's just too big of an elephant for HP to avoid.
    I agree with this. The whole reason you need (way) above-the-norm sales support for any decent tablet is because of the iPad. Period. And the iPad isn't just any old competitor--it's one of the most stunning commercial successes in recent memory.

    However, I don't think that means the TP can't be sold effectively in a store that's truly committed to making profit by serving their customers.You show people both devices' strengths and let their personal preferences take it from there. (That's what selling *was* until recently.)

    I was in BB the other day and noticed a little girl who was taken by the Veer while shopping with her mom. I had mine in my pocket and talked to them a bit about its unique features. Then, pointing to the TP display, I said I also had one of those. Just for fun I showed her mom its unique features, and after each one she'd say, "They don't *all* do that?"

    Not the first time I've found myself in that awkward position at BB--selling webOS stuff to their customers while a bunch of people in blue shirts stand around doing nothing.

    (Not all BBs are that bad. I walked out of one where I was having a lousy experience and bought a Veer at another one 5 miles away, and it was night and day, customer service-wise.)
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Lol, we dont even know how many staple stocked touchpad, there is no numbers there, and thats your evidence of "multiple report of selling well"?

    By that standard, hp slate sold great! Even if it only sold 9000 in total.
    Actually, yes, that's my evidence of multiple reports of it selling (though I never said "well", you threw that in) - because that's exactly what it is. Those stores are selling.

    I think some folks here are a little too wrapped up in wanting to see the device succeed or fail, and are concentrating solely on what they want to believe (and adding to or taking from quotes made by others).

    Some stores are selling them, that cannot be denied. It may be ignored, and it may be overlooked, but it is what it is.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  5. #45  
    This is a debacle that HP can't afford. The mere perception that webos products won't sell is going to do webos in. I go to bestbuy frequently and there is rarely anyone (customer) near the touchpad table/display. I can say a negative sales force can damage sales, but there has to be some sort of demand to drive people into the stores.

    So how does HP show the carriers they are have a hit on their hands and that the phone should be on their network? by showing stagnant stock at brick and morter stores. Many have said people don't shop at stores anymore, but plenty of people do and All carriers still have stores. So I'm sure carriers want stock just sitting on their shelves.

    This isn't one store this is one of the largest electronic retailers in the world. Hopefully HP will fix everything up.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbz View Post
    ummmm... Staples could be sold out because they didn't order very many and/or they had a huge sale on them.
    But they sold what they ordered (and then some - they let folks place orders).

    That's my point. They sold what they ordered, and then sold some more.

    What did they do different than Best Buy? After all, that is (supposedly) what this is about. Notice no one is blaming Staples for anything, because they did what a retailer is supposed to do. They ordered what they thought they could sell, and sold them at a price they could profit from.

    There's a lesson there.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    Do we know how many units Staples sold? We have exact numbers from Woot. We have 2 sources from Best Buy that reported numbers in the same ballpark to the Wall Street Journal. It could just be "iPhan misdirection," though.
    I beg to differ, you do not. You have one source that claims to have had two sources that had sources at Best Buy. Go back and read the article. Here's some samples:

    • According to one source who has seen internal HP reports, Best Buy has taken delivery
    • A second person who has seen Best Buyís TouchPad sales figures
    • Best Buy, sources tell us, is so unhappy
    He's not even quoting sources at Best Buy, but rather sources that have sources at best buy.


    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    I guess it's possible that Arik Hesseldahl is an iPhan intent on spreading Apple propaganda. I guess it's also possible that Derek Kesseler is secretly an iPhan who gleefully spreads the same story on the front page of PreCentral. Stephen DeWitt could actually be an iPhan who cut the price of the TouchPad after a month to create the perception that the product isn't selling. It might even be possible that Context doesn't actually track UK channel data and is actually a clandestine PRPRPR $firm$ $on$ $Apple$'$s$ $payroll$. $It$'$s$ $much$ $easier$ $to$ $blame$ $things$ $on$ &$quot$;$iPhan$ $misdirection$&$quot$; $than$ $to$ $considering$ $the$ $alternative$, $after$ $all$.
    Yep, all those things are possible, but my real point was the type of misdirection I see spread in posts such as yours.

    For those that paid attention, Hesseldahl's information was probably exactly correct - "According to one source ", and "A second person who has seen Best Buyís TouchPad sales figures confirmed the results as 'consistent with what Iíve seen'"

    But the iPhan Misdirection reports that as two sources within Best Buy confirmed Wall Street Journal's reports.

    That's what I'm talking about.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
    Rockbeast likes this.
  8. Hobbz's Avatar
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    #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    But they sold what they ordered (and then some - they let folks place orders).

    That's my point. They sold what they ordered, and then sold some more.

    What did they do different than Best Buy? After all, that is (supposedly) what this is about. Notice no one is blaming Staples for anything, because they did what a retailer is supposed to do. They ordered what they thought they could sell, and sold them at a price they could profit from.

    There's a lesson there.
    Dude, you've gotta relax a bit. Where did I blame any retailer? I'm still pecking away at my general reply.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I beg to differ, you do not. You have one source that claims to have had two sources that had sources at Best Buy. Go back and read the article. Here's some samples:

    • According to one source who has seen internal HP reports, Best Buy has taken delivery
    • A second person who has seen Best Buyís TouchPad sales figures
    • Best Buy, sources tell us, is so unhappy
    He's not even quoting sources at Best Buy, but rather sources that have sources at best buy.




    Yep, all those things are possible, but my real point was the type of misdirection I see spread in posts such as yours.

    For those that paid attention, Hesseldahl's information was probably exactly correct - "According to one source ", and "A second person who has seen Best Buyís TouchPad sales figures confirmed the results as 'consistent with what Iíve seen'"

    But the iPhan Misdirection reports that as two sources within Best Buy confirmed Wall Street Journal's reports.

    That's what I'm talking about.
    Keep denying won't change anything. The earlier hp faces the problem and figure out solution, the better.

    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    That why ppl put more weight on insiders numbers, especially when it can be compared from two different sources.

    One store sale cant show you a full picture, but the collective sales from the largest electronic company may be able to.

    Yes there are good and bad stories, except bad ones are more solid and with real numbers.
    Why are people pretending these are "real numbers"? They're not. All of the articles are referring back to one, and that one talks about "sources reporting on sources".

    Sorry, these are not real numbers. They are hypersensationalized rumors, eagerly jumped on by those hoping they are true.

    Further, even if they are true, one chain selling 25,000 units when multiple chains are carrying them is a decent launch.
    Not including the minor locations that I'm not familiar with, here are the outlets (currently) selling TouchPads:
    1. Best Buy
    2. Staples
    3. Wal-Mart
    4. Sams
    5. Office Depot
    6. Costco
    7. Office Max
    8. Amazon
    9. Radio Shack
    10. Micro Center
    11. Fry's
    12. J&R
    13. QVC
    14. HP's Website

    So let's take that 25,000, cut it in half, and multiply that number by the 13 other sellers listed above. That's over 160,000 (keep in mind, I halved Best Buy's lackluster sales numbers). Is that going to topple iPad? Nope. Is it a pretty decent start? Yeah, I think so. More importantly, is it indicitive of a "bomb"? Sorry, I don't think so.

    And yes, I'm basing this on pure speculation, the exact same sort of speculation I saw in that hack piece of "journalism".
    Last edited by hparsons; 08/17/2011 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Corrected numbers
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  11. #51  
    You would think that any company in this situation would be eager to issue a statement to refute such a damaging report if the numbers were somehow invalid or inaccurate, no?
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hobbz View Post
    Dude, you've gotta relax a bit. Where did I blame any retailer? I'm still pecking away at my general reply.
    The "blaming" wasn't in reference to you, that's what the thread is all about (check the title). As I said, no one is "blaming" Staples for anything, because they did what a retailer is supposed to do.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You would think that any company in this situation would be eager to issue a statement to refute such a damaging report if the numbers were somehow invalid or inaccurate, no?
    Nope. Because it opens the door to further questions, and a misconstruction of those answers.

    You will seldom find a company commenting on rumors based on rumors in one article. The article really speaks for itself, to anyone paying attention.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  14. #54  
    You should never trust rumors or so called "sources"...if you follow College Football look at what just happened with ESPN, where they reported that TAMU was supposed to be joining the SEC along with a team like FSU, Mizzou, etc. according to their "sources" and look how that ended up. With FSU, and Mizzou to name a few saying they were happy where they were.

    Only look at factual evidence and unless the the person who reports the rumor know someone that is on the inside and not just a person that knows someone who is on the inside its never too good to trust them.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    In the end, the TouchPad is the same class of product as the iPad, selling in the same stores and frequently displayed side by side with the iPad at similar price points. If someone walks into a store wanting to buy a tablet that runs apps, browses the web, does a little bit of email, and enables things like video calling, the iPad is every bit as viable an option as the TouchPad. It's just too big of an elephant for HP to avoid.
    You are trying to make this a "it must compete with iPad" situation; which of course TouchPad would lose this early in the game. That's simply not the case, and HP has stated such from before they even introduced the TouchPad.
    As I alluded to, there are enough people not buying iPads to keep HP in the tablet game. They have to figure out how to sell on their own merits. That has not yet been established, one way or the other. Way too early in the game to call that one.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  16. #56  
    A major corporation like HP is not gonna waste its time denying unsubstantiated rumors and innuendo..

    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    You would think that any company in this situation would be eager to issue a statement to refute such a damaging report if the numbers were somehow invalid or inaccurate, no?
    hparsons likes this.
  17. #57  
    I cant stand the big fruit, but they dont need to spread rumors or buy good reviews. They earn them with excellent products as witnessed by huge sales and miniscule return rate. Neither the Touchpad or the Pre 3 are a threat to them. Products dont sell because consumers dont want them.
    TechFan#WN likes this.
  18. Hobbz's Avatar
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    #58  
    In most regards, I totally agree that it's not the retailer's responsibility for poor sales in general. It's the supplier's responsibility to develop a product in an effort to gain market share and maximize profits. It's both the retailerís and supplier's responsibility to understand the market, however, the supplier does have most of the control over price points.

    What could Best Buy have done wrong? Perhaps some stores didn't display or merchandise the product as agreed with HP. Perhaps some stores didn't provide adequate training for their associates. Is that the cause of disappointing sales overall? I really doubt it. Best Buy can only be responsible for disappointing sales in their stores to a certain extent, and not for the overall sales of the product.

    Letís keep in mind though, if BB did buy that huge amount it had absolutely no impact on overall disappointing sales of the TouchPads. Customers have multiple other places to purchase them. HP was smart enough to not put all of their eggs in one proverbial basket.

    One of the greatest retailers in the US, Sam Walton, learned that Moon Pies donít sell near as well up in Wisconsin as they do down in Georgia. There just simply was not the same market or demand for Moon Pies up in Wisconsin because they never heard of them before (at that time).

    Thatís why Iím pretty hard on HP about whether they executed the launch as well as they should have. Long story made very short Ė HP did a poor job of marketing and letting people know this product was coming. We had all of 3 weeks notice when they finally made an announcement of the launch date and PreCentral had leaked information 2 weeks prior to that.
  19. nhavar's Avatar
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    #59  
    Look, plain and simple: If I go to Taco Bell and I ask for a burrito and they try to sell me on the taco, I don't make an excuse for the employee because they're undereducated and poorly trained. Likewise if I walk in and the place is dirty and disheveled I don't make excuses and give them a pass.

    BestBuy is no different. I go into the store and I expect the staff there to be eager to serve me, get me what I ask for, and get me out the door. I expect that if they are not knowledgeable about a product that they declare their ignorance and offer to find someone who knows or help me look up information. I don't expect them to wing it or direct me away from what I'm interested in so that they can feel smarter. I expect that between customers they are maintaining the stock, keeping things clean, and filling gaps in their knowledge.

    Instead what I often see when I go into BestBuy is sales staff who are too busy chatting versus helping customers, I see broken demo units, trashed shelves, laptops that are turned off, desktops that are locked, and sales staff driving customers away from purchases. It's one thing to drive a customer toward a BETTER purchase. It's quite another to drive the customer away from ANY purchase. I'd be perfectly happy if an employee was informed enough to point out the pros and cons of two devices and informed my decision making, but that's not BestBuy.

    I can't excuse that behavior away. THIS IS THEIR JOB. They get paid (however meagerly) to improve the bottom line of the company by helping customers make the decision to buy and buy NOW. It's not their job to tell a customer that their choice is wrong, to make them feel bad about previous purchases, or to make excuses about how the customer should wait.

    I'm not giving HP a pass either, but I think it's ludicrous to set such low expectations for EVERYONE. We've become an excuse making society about why we can and this or that, instead of holding one another to a higher standard and being a can-do society. Screw that. HP and BestBuy CAN DO BETTER.
  20. #60  
    First to say, I believe in bad sales numbers from article because I was expecting them since TouchPad announcement - when specs was listed publicly and YouTube videos started to roll out. Tone of whole article is other story, but I firmly believe that TouchPad sales is matching stated numbers. TouchPad simply couldn't sell good because it's concept is wrong. Better trained sales force with better attitude toward TouchPad would maybe pushed TP sales little higher but not enough to save it from this situation.
    On other hand, for guy from eastern Europe like I am, stories about BB's staff behavior, condition of display stands and units is shocking. I would never suspect that this negligence is possible in US. In my country people in stores like BB are working full time for $200 - $500 salary, and doesn't behave like staff from BB (and Verizon and AT&T stores also). I guess this will be mentioned in talks between BB and HP execs.
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