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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    "there's a patch for that
    bahahaha that's good. real good.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    You don't think installing preware itself require substantial work? Including installation of services on pc, reboot device, turn on dev mode?
    No, I don't. Substantial is a very subjective term. Typing "webos20090606" on the device + downloading an application to it I would not call "substantial". Takes about 5 minutes total. I barely broke a sweat.

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    when installing customized kernel, you didnt read any warning of warranty may be voided?
    Absolutely. And that's not a patch, it's a replacement to the OS's kernal.
    It's also worth noting that webOS Internals has never had a documented instance of a warranty being voided. But, the warning is still there; however, I'll repeat. That is not a patch. It's not listed under PreWare as a patch, it's listed under "Kernels".

    Patches will not void your warranty.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Yeah, linear means same slope, obviously new update should be better than old one, but it won't be linear, improvement will likely hit a plateau, the fact that webOS largely relies on web tech, makes its performance substantially limited to the speed of those technologies, which are unlikely to be as fast as codes directly interacting with hardwares.
    Maybe we're working off a different definition of "linear". When improvement updates hit a "plateau", then no more updates will come. That point has not been reached yet.

    The rest of your informaton is misleading, or just patently false. Yes, much of the back end and the UI is based on web technologies; however even those can be improved upon (for instance, the recent changes to the way CSS is handled). But even beyond that, your response is misleading. Underlying codes directly interact with the hardware, even in WebOS. Those codes will continue to be improved upon for quite some time, and update with OTA updates.

    In short, please dispense with the FUD.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
    cobrakon likes this.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    As someone who has been heavily patching webOS devices for almost 2 years now. The 50 patches is WAY high, I don't think there are many around running even 10 patches. I think we have 5 or fewer on the TP, also with the Veer I am using far fewer patches than I was on my original Pre on 1.4.5.

    Just saying the OS may not be perfect, but those that aren't using the device seem to be thinking it's like 1.x webOS and it is FAR from that.


    Ohhh and to add, I put preware on the day we got the TP and same with the Veers, there just isn't as much to patch any more.
    This.

    I'm only running 7 patches on the TP, and I could lose 2 or 3 if I had to without much bother.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Huh, if its not catigorized as patches, what is it then?
    Kernels are categorized under "Kernel".
    Patches are categorized under "Patch".

    (See screenshot).

    If you'll look on your webOS phone, you'll a similar type of listing.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by YankBoy View Post
    I haven't used a TP device yet (apart from messing around with one in Best Buy), but it seems the biggest drawback so far is just its functionality out of the box. It's not a great selling point to tell someone that the TP WILL work great once you download an update with a million bug fixes, install 50 homebrew patches, use several workarounds, etc. Many of the complaints I've read on here seem to be addressed with something along the lines of "there's a patch for that in preware" or "that's a well-known bug to be addressed in a future OTA". The average consumer just wants the thing to work right out of the box.
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    As someone who has been heavily patching webOS devices for almost 2 years now. The 50 patches is WAY high, I don't think there are many around running even 10 patches. I think we have 5 or fewer on the TP, also with the Veer I am using far fewer patches than I was on my original Pre on 1.4.5.

    Just saying the OS may not be perfect, but those that aren't using the device seem to be thinking it's like 1.x webOS and it is FAR from that.


    Ohhh and to add, I put preware on the day we got the TP and same with the Veers, there just isn't as much to patch any more.
    Exactly!!! Unfortunately, most of the FUD that's being passed off here is much like this one - spread by non-TP users.

    The FACT is that PreWare only shows about 30 patches even available. Of those 30, many are things that don't do anything to improve performance, but simply change the experience (private browsing, advanced reset options, turn off alerts, etc).

    I would consider myself a power user, and I only have 7 patches installed:

    1. Add to Paper Mache
    2. Advanced Reset Options
    3. Increase Touch Sensitivity and Smoothness
    4. No video pause on minimize
    5. Remove Dropped Packet Logging
    6. Unset CFQ IO Scheduler
    7. Unthrottle Download Manager

    I've bolded those that are performance related. To be fair to the discussion, I'm also running a modified kernal.

    Far from the 50 bandied about.

    Also, to be fair to the discussion, once PreWare is installed, adding every one of the above listed patches and the custom kernel would take about 5 minutes, and would be no more difficult than downloading an app.

    And it does work, right out of the box.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Huh, if its not catigorized as patches, what is it then?
    What Herb said....

    I will add to that, that I believe that linux users would refer to a patch as a patch and the kernel as the kernel.

    It has been a very long time since I was deep into linux distros (like 14-16 years, back when you would go online and order a disc to install linux). But the terminology used in Preware is the same terminology used in home computing IIRC.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Plus the fact that HP will give you another one and deliver it to your doorstep literally the next day if yours cracks. They even include free postage to send the old one back.
    Oh that makes it ok then? That is the least they should do.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by leonkehoe View Post
    Oh that makes it ok then? That is the least they should do.
    Of course that makes it OK. Why would it not? What would you expect them to do, come out and personally apologize?

    Seriously folks, even the crack we're talking about is cosmetic, and they are offering to fix it completely. No, I don't think they should do less. Nor do I expect they should do more.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  10. gtalum's Avatar
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    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by leonkehoe View Post
    Oh that makes it ok then? That is the least they should do.
    What can they do beyond replacing the defective device?

    As a manufacturer myself, I know that defective units will make it out the door. The real measure of a company is how they handle the situation. Replacing a unit no questions asked is pretty solid.
    Last edited by gtalum; 08/12/2011 at 03:15 PM.
    k4ever and hparsons like this.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by ebolamonkey3 View Post
    While I agree with your statement that we should keep our operating systems updated, it's not what the majority of the consumers do, at least not here in the US.

    I remember reading an article about how 50% of the brought to the Genius Bar have never even been synced.

    50% of iPhones Brought to Genius Bar Have Never Been Synced - Mac Rumors

    That's a plug/play affair if you have iTunes, and almost everybody has iTunes. So apparently a lot of people don't even bother to plug their phones into the computer ever. Nobody on this forum would do that kind of thing, but we are the overwhelming minority. Most of the customers would get the TouchPad, get really frustrated w/ the lag in the first 48hrs when it's syncing/indexing because they don't know it's doing that, and then return it and/or give up on it within the first week.

    Having the 3.0.2 update being OTA will help most people get it, but stuff like Preware is way over the top for most of the consumers here.
    Wow! That's sad but I believe it. My mom has an Android phone and she doesn't know how to update it. My aunt and cousin both have iPhones and don't buy apps. They put music on them but hate iTunes. My wife has a Blackberry and doesn't use it for email. She also can't figure out how to fix some of her albums in iTunes. Everyone I know hates iTunes, so I can imagine someone not syncing their iPhone to it. Apple is suppose to add OTA to all their devices. OTA is a lot simplier than syncing.

    I agree on installing PreWare. It is a medium level difficulty task. Once it is installed, applying patches is a breeze. I installed it on my wife's old Pre (before it broke and she got the Blackberry. Man I hate Sprint not having newer webOS devices!) and it seemed like every day she was installing a new theme. So once you get over the install, everything else is easy. Would love to see PreWare in the app catalog, but I'm just glad that HP allows us to install it at all. Apple and most of the Android tablet makers dislike their hacker communities and try their best to sabotage the installation of similar software.

    Most people (at least all the ones I know) call tech support before they take a device back to the store. One of the first questions the Butler folks ask you is "what version of webOS are you running on your device?". They will hold you hand through finding the version and updating the device if needed.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by leonkehoe View Post
    Oh that makes it ok then? That is the least they should do.
    Darn right it's ok! I have an Android tablet that had a hard drive crash 4 hours after I recieved it in the mail from Amazon (Archos 70 250gb). It took over a month to get another one and clear up the mess and Amazon is an incredible company at doing exchanges. HP tops them! They had a replacement Touchpad to me 18 hours after I called them. I did not pay a dime or even had to leave my house! So yeah it makes it ok in my book.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by gtalum View Post
    What can they do beyond replacing the defective device?

    As a manufacturer myself, I know that defective units will make it out the door. The real measure of a company is how they handle the situation. Replacing a unit no questions asked is pretty solid.
    Since you are new here (at least newly registered). There are folks on these boards that are complaining about getting a $50 rebate on a TouchPad, for a phone they bought 2 years ago in some cases, from another company (Palm). (also complaining about the $50 app credit)

    So just don't be surprised by this attitude around here. If you already knew about the above, sorry for wasting your time and the bandwidth with this post.



    I would like to add, that it seems a lot of the above mentioned complaining has come from people that don't own a TP...
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by vasekvi View Post
    But the cracks on the casing are really ridiculous in my opinion. I exchanged my TouchPad yesterday and I am now scared to even put it in its case or take it anywhere because I dont want the new one to crack either.



    If someone made a replacement casing in aluminum I would pay $100 for it.
    Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. Design flaw or manufacturing flaw. I'd like to see a dual aluminum/plastc back casing (similar to HTC Flyer) with aluminum part in brushed black or gunmetal. This way, you can still have the touchstone work.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    You are equaling windows update to preware patching? windows update is fully automatic, user at most are required to click some okays, while preware patches, require substantial works and may invalid the warranty. I dont see how they can practically be the same.
    If you read the post I was replying to you will see that I equated updating webOS to updating Windows and others. Yankboy commented that it was not a good selling point to tell people to download an update to fix bugs. Correct me if I'm wrong but OS developers have been doing that for years.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by laoh View Post
    Yeah, this is pretty ridiculous. Design flaw or manufacturing flaw. I'd like to see a dual aluminum/plastc back casing (similar to HTC Flyer) with aluminum part in brushed black or gunmetal. This way, you can still have the touchstone work.
    There is another thread for the cracking. Please post stuff like this there. Posting it on every thread is the equivalent of spam and, in my opinion, seems to serve an underhanded purpose of discrediting the Touchpad. Yes it happens and yes HP will replace it in under two days free of charge. If folks keep spamming threads with this its going to backfire because the rest of us will start replying to the spam with how great HP's Butler service is at replacing broken Touchpads. Better than any other service. Also, it doesn't matter if it were made of steel, it would still crack if it were put together wrong.
  17. #57  
    The point I was trying to make is a fault like this should have been picked up on during the development process. What makes it worse, is that the Palm Pre suffered from an almost identical problem - cracks stemming from cut out areas.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    If you read the post I was replying to you will see that I equated updating webOS to updating Windows and others. Yankboy commented that it was not a good selling point to tell people to download an update to fix bugs. Correct me if I'm wrong but OS developers have been doing that for years.
    Yes, but at the same time, we have been ridiculing OS developers for their large OS updates for years too.

    Who hasn’t thought, “WTF” when they get a new copy of an OS leaded onto a computer and then promptly sit and wait for hundreds of megs to gigs of updates to load up?

    Sloppy code is prevalent throughout all OS systems. Doesn’t make it right though.

    -Suntan
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Yes, but at the same time, we have been ridiculing OS developers for their large OS updates for years too.

    Who hasn’t thought, “WTF” when they get a new copy of an OS leaded onto a computer and then promptly sit and wait for hundreds of megs to gigs of updates to load up?

    Sloppy code is prevalent throughout all OS systems. Doesn’t make it right though.

    -Suntan
    I used to think "***' when I had to download hundreds of megabytes of updates for a Linux distro I just installed that just came out a week before. I now get upset if I don't because I don't want to wait for the inevitable bug fixes to happen. I'd much rather get it over with at the beginning. Especially if an issue is discovered right after launch that needs to be fixed immediately. Also, what if you waited some time to buy your Touchpad. Don't you think you will be updating it after you turned it on? No company pushes an update to a device that has been sitting in a box on a retailer's shelf for weeks.

    I don't code. I took a few required classes on coding and we spent weeks on trying to find bugs in our own programming. If I can't write a simple program without making a mistake I can't rightfully expect another human being to do the same. Especially one writing thousands of lines of code for a complex OS. It's not sloppy it's just a mistake.

    I would like to see bug fixes more frequently like you see with Ubuntu and Windows.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    Yes, but at the same time, we have been ridiculing OS developers for their large OS updates for years too.

    Who hasn’t thought, “WTF” when they get a new copy of an OS leaded onto a computer and then promptly sit and wait for hundreds of megs to gigs of updates to load up?

    Sloppy code is prevalent throughout all OS systems. Doesn’t make it right though.

    -Suntan
    And I doubt any of us are willing to pay the extra $$$ it would cost to have the OS' tested enough to ensure that they would be absolutely 100% error free.

    It is what it is.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
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