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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    People do love their conspiracy theories. It has nothing to do with Hollywood.

    The lack of better codec support has to do with:
    (a) hardware acceleration/power life requirement with chipsets.
    (b) tablet makers don't want to pay that extra 25 cents in licensing fee.

    Say you have a TI OMAP4-based RIM Playbook. There are 3 different ways to implement a video codec in 3 different silicons. You can write a codec to run on the ARM CPU. You can write a codec to run on the PowerVR SGX540 GPU. You can write a codec to run on the TI DSP that is also inside the OMAP4.

    You can pay Imagination Technologies (the company that makes the PowerVR GPU) for a video codec. You can pay TI for a DSP video codec. You can pay somebody else for a video codec that runs on a generic ARM chip. Or you can write your own codec.

    The price of those already made solution includes paying patent licensing fee to --- Microsoft for WMV. Or you can write you own codec and negotiate the patent licensing fee with Microsoft yourself (and that depends on how much you have your own video patents).
    Nobody said anything about a conspiracy. Also, if it was only about paying codec fees and hardware acceleration, how do the 3rd party developers offer the functionality? Some of them offer it for free.
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    #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Nobody said anything about a conspiracy. Also, if it was only about paying codec fees and hardware acceleration, how do the 3rd party developers offer the functionality? Some of them offer it for free.
    How many of them are legit? Chances are that these developers just grab some code from various open source projects.
  3.    #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by HardBeatZ View Post
    avi and mkv are notoriously pirated formats..personally I wouldn't expect to see either one of these formats supported on the device out of the box.
    If this were the case, again why does RIM allow my blackberry Torch phone to play .avi xvid files? Also I am fairly certain the BB playbook will play .avi xvid files (someone confirm this if they have a friend with a Playbook). Why isn't RIM afraid of the same movie studios? Of course RIM's playbook has many crippling shortcomings of its own, I don't want to make this a TouchPad vs. Playbook thread, but just pointing out the difference. (Although in the end I was deciding hard between Touchpad and Playbook, being the Apple hater I am, so maybe I'm just having a bit of grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side syndrome)

    I have to say I am surprised to learn that the iPad does NOT support .avi/xvid out of the box though. I know it shouldn't, but it does make Touchpad's omission a little more forgiveable if iPad has the same issue.

    I still maintain that $7 is a lot for an app, but I guess it is a very subjective question how much a product like KalemSoft "ought" to be worth. Obviously my answer is $0, because I think it should have been included with the Touchpad :-p But I guess a lot of people on here are okay with paying for the extra codec support.
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    How many of them are legit? Chances are that these developers just grab some code from various open source projects.
    Won't disagree with you on the second sentence. However, I feel that the same codec folks who would go after a company like HP would go after a developer who charges for the use of their app or gives away the codec for free.
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    #45  
    Go after what? They are one man operations operating in their basement.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Won't disagree with you on the second sentence. However, I feel that the same codec folks who would go after a company like HP would go after a developer who charges for the use of their app or gives away the codec for free.
    You could easily argue that Kalemsoft isn't charging for use of the codec, but for the time and energy they put in to both the streaming solution, the UI, the adaptation to the OS...etc.

    I'm sure if there was an easy way to just patch the codecs into the native video player, we would've seen it already (on webOS 1 or 2).

    The default video player is kinda "meh" anyway...I'd use Kalemsoft's file browsing system over that any day.
  7. Bo
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    #47  
    Samab made some very good points, and although I don't know how much it would be to pay all of those licensing fees, I'm pretty sure it cuts into whatever profit any hardware manufacture will get. I don't know of any smartphone or tablet that can play every music and video codec out of the box, I wish there was, but I guess somebody else has to be able to make some money some how.

    I hear a lot of people complaining about the cost of apps and really think the majority of people on these forums must be new to the whole smartphone (and now) tablet market. I Remember paying at least $5-10 dollars on most apps I purchased with Palm and WinMo and sometimes more. The most expensive purchase I made with either platform was over $150 for TomTom and Garmin navigation software with the included GPS devices. Hell I think coreplayer was like $20 for winmo and it didn't play every video codec on the market then.

    I'm looking for a bargain as well as the next man, but if an app fits my functional needs then I'm all in, unless I can get it by other means ;-O. Maybe people just got spoiled with a lot of those 99c apps when apple and androids marketplace became hot. I know when looking back in the windows mobile forum there was a lot of talk about how cheap most of there apps were compared to the same apps that were available in the windows marketplace. On that note android reminds me a lot of winmo in regards to how configurable it is, and how buggy, but the price of apps and other google services had old winmo users running to it like wildfire.
    k4ever likes this.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    But aren't most OS's lacking in "native support" for many playback formats? Even with Windows, I've had to download different codecs for different formats.
    Thank you for that. For AVi, torrents, etc. I always had to codecs or software that contained codecs for my PCs.
  9. #49  
    The broader discussion is this:

    Do you spend engineering efforts on supporting platforms/implementations that enable a complex use case (obtaining your media in divx/xvid/mkv, etc.), or do you focus more on getting it right for the easily attainable, customer-friendly ways to provide a similar solution (watching movies/tv).

    We on P|C are a bit of a vacuum. We don't mind doing a little extra legwork/research to get what we want...far from the lowest-common denominator.
    etx likes this.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by Bo View Post
    I hear a lot of people complaining about the cost of apps and really think the majority of people on these forums must be new to the whole smartphone (and now) tablet market. I Remember paying at least $5-10 dollars on most apps I purchased with Palm and WinMo and sometimes more. The most expensive purchase I made with either platform was over $150 for TomTom and Garmin navigation software with the included GPS devices. Hell I think coreplayer was like $20 for winmo and it didn't play every video codec on the market then.
    I'm mostly surprised that people here wouldn't appreciate and want to support small developers that are spending their time on this platform. Considering how much this community support homebrew, and independent developers, you'd think $7 wouldn't be breaking the camel's back...ya know, especially since they were willing to lay out $600 for a tablet.
    Bo likes this.
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    #51  
    But on the other hand, not supporting avi is like not supporting mp3.
  12.    #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by d503 View Post
    you'd think $7 wouldn't be breaking the camel's back...ya know, especially since they were willing to lay out $600 for a tablet.
    Yes, I was willing to spend all that money on the tablet (actually I got mine during the sale, and at Costco, so it was 480 for a 32GB but that's beside the point), but precisely because I've already spent all that money on the tablet itself, that I feel like I shouldn't have to spent another $7 on top of that to get full video functionality. But that said, as I announced previously, I gave in and paid the $7 and bought the damn app.
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  13. Bo
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    #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by Messerschmitts View Post
    Yes, I was willing to spend all that money on the tablet (actually I got mine during the sale, and at Costco, so it was 480 for a 32GB but that's beside the point), but precisely because I've already spent all that money on the tablet itself, that I feel like I shouldn't have to spent another $7 on top of that to get full video functionality. But that said, as I announced previously, I gave in and paid the $7 and bought the damn app.
    man...I feel you, I just don't complain as much since I feel like I'm supporting the devs that are supporting the platform I decided to buy-in to. A lot of people are questioning HP's decision to come out with a tablet ahead of the pre 3, I would've preferred the phone but I can kinda see why they went this route.

    I think a lot of people would've passed up on the phone except the WebOS faithful, but to introduce another product without having to worry about carrier acceptance and to remove them as the middle man. It gives a whole lot more opportunities for more people to want to give webOS a try and that's what I believe could give us more developer support and maybe that's what HP was thinking. I also believe they'll need to beef up their own developer base in house to continue to have a fighting chance.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by Messerschmitts View Post
    If this were the case, again why does RIM allow my blackberry Torch phone to play .avi xvid files? Also I am fairly certain the BB playbook will play .avi xvid files (someone confirm this if they have a friend with a Playbook). Why isn't RIM afraid of the same movie studios? Of course RIM's playbook has many crippling shortcomings of its own, I don't want to make this a TouchPad vs. Playbook thread, but just pointing out the difference. (Although in the end I was deciding hard between Touchpad and Playbook, being the Apple hater I am, so maybe I'm just having a bit of grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side syndrome)

    I have to say I am surprised to learn that the iPad does NOT support .avi/xvid out of the box though. I know it shouldn't, but it does make Touchpad's omission a little more forgiveable if iPad has the same issue.

    I still maintain that $7 is a lot for an app, but I guess it is a very subjective question how much a product like KalemSoft "ought" to be worth. Obviously my answer is $0, because I think it should have been included with the Touchpad :-p But I guess a lot of people on here are okay with paying for the extra codec support.
    Air video server for the ipad is very similar to kalemsoft player and they charge for their app as well. Like someone else mentioned, it's not just a codec, it's streaming, time and effort to make the app, etc. They are merely filling in the gap of what is needed.
  15.    #55  
    Okay guys you know what's funny? KalemSoft just came out with an NES (Nintendo Entertainment system) emulator for WebOs. Now THAT is something that is completely awesome, something that I obviously do not expect HP to create, and I would pay $7 for lol. And they're only charging $5.

    Oh wait...awwn it's not compatible with touchpad, only with the pre/pixi :-(
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    How many of them are legit? Chances are that these developers just grab some code from various open source projects.
    Um.... "grabbing code from various open source projects" is legit; as long as they keep the open source portions open...
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Messerschmitts View Post
    If this were the case, again why does RIM allow my blackberry Torch phone to play .avi xvid files? Also I am fairly certain the BB playbook will play .avi xvid files (someone confirm this if they have a friend with a Playbook). Why isn't RIM afraid of the same movie studios?
    He probably doesn't know, since he works for HP, not RIM. Working for HP gives him a lot of insight into HP, not so much into everyone else.
    If you type PreCentral on a TouchPad
    It changes to PreMenstrual
    That situation needs to be fixed!
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Um.... "grabbing code from various open source projects" is legit; as long as they keep the open source portions open...
    That has nothing to do with "legit". The LAME project only publishes the source code, never distributes the binaries --- because the binaries are going to get you.

    If you keep the open source portions open, you only satisfy LAME's open source license. That has NOTHING to do with Fraunhofer suing you for mp3 patent licensing fee.
    Last edited by samab; 08/12/2011 at 11:51 PM.
  19. samab's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    He probably doesn't know, since he works for HP, not RIM. Working for HP gives him a lot of insight into HP, not so much into everyone else.
    Low level workers have no insight into business models and licensing issues. The people high enough to have insights to these things aren't going to post on internet forums.

    You are not going to have an ac3 codec on a tablet unless you pay licensing fees to Dolby.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Low level workers have no insight into business models and licensing issues. The people high enough to have insights to these things aren't going to post on internet forums.

    You are not going to have an ac3 codec on a tablet unless you pay licensing fees to Dolby.
    I'm ok with being known as a "low level worker"
    Ex HP webOS Tech Support

    5Ts: Five ways to get your webOS tablet working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/5Ts

    6Ts: Six ways to get your webOS phone working again: http://www.hpwebos.com/6Ts
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