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  1.    #1  
    I just wondered if having the TouchPad sitting in the Touchstone for an extended period, not using it and thus just only showing the clock, could possibly damage the battery or the TouchPad itself? This situation can occur when you're away for a couple of days..
    Just curious..
  2. #2  
    lion batteries should not have a problem with this..
    Life is short, Play hard, and enjoy every moment as if it was your last.
  3. #3  
    No problem, Palm recommends devices are continually topped up via docks to get the best performance from batteries.
  4. #4  
    I'm not sure that this is true. Since the device is doing smthg it will drain the battery more than switched off.
    It will constantly drain to 95% and get charged to 100%.
    Every drain/charge circel will reduce the battery health.
    I never will understand why the palm/hp deviceses can't run from a charger without using the battery like all laptops.
  5. jp99's Avatar
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    #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    I'm not sure that this is true. Since the device is doing smthg it will drain the battery more than switched off.
    It will constantly drain to 95% and get charged to 100%.
    Every drain/charge circel will reduce the battery health.
    I never will understand why the palm/hp deviceses can't run from a charger without using the battery like all laptops.
    somline, the circuitry to run off the charger would add more volume to the internal electronics. The TP is thick enough as it is and designers don't want to add any more circuitry than needed. HP wants to reduce the thickness of the next TP anyway and won't add extra circuitry like this.

    As I recall, it's not a cycle or circle of drain/recharge, but the total power usage that degrades battery life for Lion. Small drains and recharges therefore degrade the battery, but slowly.
  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    As I recall, it's not a cycle or circle of drain/recharge, but the total power usage that degrades battery life for Lion. Small drains and recharges therefore degrade the battery, but slowly.
    From the manual of the battery chip (pre-/+/2/pixi):
    When set to the manufacturer’s rated cell capacity the aging estimation rate is approximately 2.4% per 100 cycles of equivalent full capacity discharges. Partial discharge cycles are added to form equivalent full capacity discharges. The default aging estimation results in 88% capacity after 500 equivalent cycles.
    So you're right. Small drains and recharges degrades slowly. But since the device is on TS, it's doing something (show the clock backlight on). Therefore it's doing more charge circles than switched off.
    Last edited by somline; 08/10/2011 at 12:52 AM.
  7. #7  
    My Pre is constantly sitting on its Touchstone and it has been over 2 years now and the battery is fine, these types of batteries like to be constantly topped off. When I purchased my Mugen battery the instructions stated the same thing, so just let your TouchPad sit on its touchstone without any worries.
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    From the manual of the battery chip (pre-/+/2/pixi):

    So you're right. Small drains and recharges degrades slowly. But since the device is on TS, it's doing something (show the clock backlight on). Therefore it's doing more charge circles than switched off.

    When set to the manufacturer’s rated cell capacity the aging estimation rate is approximately 2.4% per 100 cycles of equivalent full capacity discharges. Partial discharge cycles are added to form equivalent full capacity discharges. The default aging estimation results in 88% capacity after 500 equivalent cycles.
    The charge cycles will hardly register below 100% on the TouchStone once fully charged, so what's your point? If they never go below 100% IME, why will this be a problem?
  9. #9  
    Two days is fine, but you should turn if off if it's more than a week.

    Heat is not a friend of battery.
  10. #10  
    Hybrid car batteries are probably the best "real world" analogy... with constant usage and top-ups. All Toyota/Lexus hybrid batteries are warrantied to last 8 yrs. I wouldn't worry about significant Touchpad battery degradation from constant recharge cycles on the Touchstone.
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by rstark View Post
    If they never go below 100% IME, why will this be a problem?
    Unfortunately this is not true. Get the real value with govnah or dr.b. It's going down to 95%.
    The good news is that they have changed the way it discharges while on TS with the new A6 chip. My Veer is draining very little while on TS. Around 2-5mA where my pre2 is using 120-150mA. Therefore I have less drain/charge circles with my Veer while on TS than I have with my pre2.
    I assume it's the same on the TP (don't have one yet).

    EDIT: Sorry govnah doesn't shows the %. Maybe the "Show actual battery percent" patch exist for the TP?
    Last edited by somline; 08/10/2011 at 08:15 AM.
  12. nlocurto's Avatar
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    #12  
    Charge dock is made just for this purpose, should not be an issue...

    -Gromet
    Apple iPad2 64GB WiFi +3G (Verizon)
    Apple iPhone4 32GB (AT&T)
    Touchpad 32GB WiFi - RETURNED
    Veer 4G - SOLD
  13. jp99's Avatar
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    #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepysurf View Post
    Hybrid car batteries are probably the best "real world" analogy... with constant usage and top-ups. All Toyota/Lexus hybrid batteries are warrantied to last 8 yrs. I wouldn't worry about significant Touchpad battery degradation from constant recharge cycles on the Touchstone.
    I'm not sure if our batteries charge the same as the automobiles. To keep battery life high, they are using an 80-30% discharge cycle for Lion. If your car says "100%" it's really about 80% of the battery capacity. Phone battery algorithms are probably different as they expect shorter product lifetimes.
  14. #14  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    I'm not sure if our batteries charge the same as the automobiles. To keep battery life high, they are using an 80-30% discharge cycle for Lion. If your car says "100%" it's really about 80% of the battery capacity. Phone battery algorithms are probably different as they expect shorter product lifetimes.
    I would think HP has enough battery expertise to have optimized the algorithm. By the time the battery dies (hopefully 2+ yrs) the Touchpad 2 with WebOS 3.0.3 will be about to ship <g>.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by jp99 View Post
    I'm not sure if our batteries charge the same as the automobiles. To keep battery life high, they are using an 80-30% discharge cycle for Lion. If your car says "100%" it's really about 80% of the battery capacity. Phone battery algorithms are probably different as they expect shorter product lifetimes.
    That doesn't have to do with battery longevity. They use the 80% instead of the 100% because of charging mechanics of these batteries. Ever notice how devices with "quick charge" will go from near 0 to 80% in a very short time, then take "forever" by comparison to get to 100? That's because as you push past that threshold it becomes more and more difficult (requires more energy) to add charge to the battery. With batteries of that capacity and that are going to see that frequent of charge cycles it's a waste to try to charge those past the 80% threshold.
    littlelulu257 likes this.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by somline View Post
    Unfortunately this is not true. Get the real value with govnah or dr.b. It's going down to 95%.
    The good news is that they have changed the way it discharges while on TS with the new A6 chip. My Veer is draining very little while on TS. Around 2-5mA where my pre2 is using 120-150mA. Therefore I have less drain/charge circles with my Veer while on TS than I have with my pre2.
    I assume it's the same on the TP (don't have one yet).

    EDIT: Sorry govnah doesn't shows the %. Maybe the "Show actual battery percent" patch exist for the TP?
    On govnah I am showing a positive battery current when on the TS, it dips a little when going in and out of exhibition, then back to positive when it comes out of exhibition.

    This is with H+, BT radios on, wifi off.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  17. jp99's Avatar
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    #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    That doesn't have to do with battery longevity. They use the 80% instead of the 100% because of charging mechanics of these batteries. Ever notice how devices with "quick charge" will go from near 0 to 80% in a very short time, then take "forever" by comparison to get to 100? That's because as you push past that threshold it becomes more and more difficult (requires more energy) to add charge to the battery. With batteries of that capacity and that are going to see that frequent of charge cycles it's a waste to try to charge those past the 80% threshold.
    Nissan indicates otherwise for the Leaf (excerpts from owner's manual). They indicated fast charging to 80% and slower charging to 100%:

    NISSAN recommends you use the following
    driving and charging habits, where possible, to
    help maximize the battery’s useful life:

    Allow the vehicle and Li-ion battery to cool
    down after use before charging.

    Use the normal charging or trickle charging
    methods to charge the Li-ion battery and
    minimize the use of public Fast Charge or
    Quick Charger.

    Avoid exceeding 70-80% state of charge
    when using frequent (more than once per
    week) public Fast Charge or Quick Charging.
    (note that full charge to 100% is allowed with trickle and normal charges; the fast charge of 1/2 hour is only allowed to go to 80%)

    I do not know if the 100% for the Leaf equals 80% of actual capacity; I did work with some cooling of the Volt's batteries and the longevity of the battery and the charge rate are related through temperature and they used the 80% value. Charging does directly relate to Li-ion battery life due to heat.
  18. #18  
    lets stick to touchpad please, I though I am on a car forum.
  19. #19  
    Hello there, first post. Thanks for having me. Love my TP and the great community you have here.

    I stopped using the Touchstone. Note: I have the HP case on mine.

    Most people charge overnight and I noticed that the back of the TP was warm in the area of the Touchstone when I took it off in the morning. I don't think the TP should be heated endlessly on that thing after the charge is over.

    Not to mention the fact that the screen stays on the entire time it is on the Touchstone unless you hit the Power switch every time you put it on there. Then you have the possibility of the Power button or screen failing prematurely when you had no cause to use them.

    When I charge with the AC cord, the battery area gets warm while charging and then completely cool when done, no heat at all on the TP in the morning. As for the port wearing out, I have been using that type port on cell phones for years with no issue but would rather have that than a cracked backside of my TP from the Touchstone.

    The Touchstone and TP are unproven over time as they just came out. The induction charging system is not new but does use electromagnets and heat. I just don't like to think what that heat will do over time, especially if one leaves their pad on the Touchstone more than overnight on a regular basis.

    Someone please prove me wrong as I loved the convenience of the Touchstone.
  20. LurkerX's Avatar
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    #20  
    Most of us regulars have had our Pre/Pixie sitting on a touchstone for a good chunk of the last two years with no issue.
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