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  1.    #21  
    alright. Once I get the article finished....I'll submit to P|C then.

    See, thats why I ask for opinions =)
    @agentmock

    Audiovox SMT5600 (WM) --> Cingular 8125 (WM) --> Sprint Mogul 8525 (WM) --> Palm Pre (webOS)- --> Sprint Franken Pre2 (webOS) + 32gb Touchpad (webOS)
    LCGuy and PeteK01 like this.
  2. #22  
    that's interesting...

    if you submit it to P|C and they publish it... then it will look like P|C is getting into the article and they are supporting the rebuttal... which is basically what they will be doing. then it comes to a zdnet versus P|C thing.

    you're still gonna generate the clicks for them... more probably. but if they really wanna play then they can keep lobbing webos bombs in the future with more pieces for more responses and clicks. webos is an easy target.

    they can write about the non existence of apps making it useless.

    they can write about poor build quality with cracks in the speaker holes and major number of exchanges.

    all bad publicity hp doesnt need cause you may think zdnet sucks, but it gets a lot of traffic.

    PreCentral versus ZDNet. where's my popcorn?

    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
    alright. Once I get the article finished....I'll submit to P|C then.

    See, thats why I ask for opinions =)
  3. #23  
    interesting comments in that article and someone did bring up something I completely forgot was mentioned a while back...

    HP donates server to WebOS Internals, makes homebrew its boo -- Engadget

    Payment in full?
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    +1 for not adding to Perlow's hit count. Submit the finished article for front page use on P|C.
    +2
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    interesting comments in that article and someone did bring up something I completely forgot was mentioned a while back...

    HP donates server to WebOS Internals, makes homebrew its boo -- Engadget

    Payment in full?
    You know, you REALLY should read the whole thread prior to making such an invalid comment and posing it as a confiirmation of Perlow's innuendo.

    Seriously - you ust addied insult to injury.

    From Rod Whitby's post in this thread:

    "One server (singular), with no strings attached (actually donated to Oregon State University Open Source Laboratory OSUOSL rather than directly to WebOS Internals to ensure there was no possibility of HP thinking they could influence or control our work).

    And the devices supplied to WebOS Internals by HP are done under the public developer device programs that are open to all webOS developers - there are no "special deals" for WebOS Internals developers, nor would we ask that there be. We make full use of the public programs that any other webOS developer (homebrew or not) can make use of."



    You just PROVED my point about less knowledgable readers reading Perlow's page and believing it all!

    Regarding your insinuation that posting his opinion on PC would make this into a PC vs ZD Net sistuation is, in and of itself, "sensationalism".

    It would be one PC communmity member's opinion that would be "highlighted" on the front page for anyone who chooses to vist there can read and opine on.
    Last edited by LCGuy; 08/06/2011 at 09:14 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

    65fastback and steffej3 like this.
  6. #26  
    oh i read it. i was just reading the link i mentioned and it linked to the P|C article that covered it...

    how in says webinternals... "asked HP's Phil McKinney..." and the outcome was a... "donation" to them. but not 'to them'... to oregon state as you mentioned so that there are no trail... i mean no ties... i mean no connection to hp or anything.

    HP donates a hefty server to homebrew WebOS Internals Group | The #1 HP webOS, TouchPad, Pre, and Veer Community | PreCentral.net

    anyways, i was just making a point. you can argue it six ways from sunday and zdnet can do more than i did by mentioned an 'innocent donation'

    playing with zdnet is not a good idea... just cant see anything good coming from it.

    popcorn ready
  7. #27  
    It's a good first draft. My criticism is that it does nothing to address the false premise that the article is based on - that webOS needs these 'hacks' to be usable. Instead, by making a case for why homebrew is good your argument is weak since it is open to the possibility that you are merely justifying needed improvements. Your second paragraph, especially, reinforces the notion that the HP TouchPad is unusable without homebrew. I would at least move that paragraph down, below the paragraphs explaining the product cycle. I would also add and strongly emphasize that the TouchPad is very usable right out of the box. To me, that would destroy the rest of his argument since the very premise the outlandish statements about webOSinternals was based on was made up.

    That said, I think you'd be taking a big risk submitting this to Mr. Perlow for his use. As someone who has made up talking points, I would expect that your response would not be presented in a fair or impartial manner. I am glad you chose not to go that route.

    Anyway, that's my take on things, for what its worth. Good luck to you.
    LCGuy likes this.
  8.    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by MobileBill23 View Post
    It's a good first draft. My criticism is that it does nothing to address the false premise that the article is based on - that webOS needs these 'hacks' to be usable. Instead, by making a case for why homebrew is good your argument is weak since it is open to the possibility that you are merely justifying needed improvements. Your second paragraph, especially, reinforces the notion that the HP TouchPad is unusable without homebrew. I would at least move that paragraph down, below the paragraphs explaining the product cycle. I would also add and strongly emphasize that the TouchPad is very usable right out of the box. To me, that would destroy the rest of his argument since the very premise the outlandish statements about webOSinternals was based on was made up.

    That said, I think you'd be taking a big risk submitting this to Mr. Perlow for his use. As someone who has made up talking points, I would expect that your response would not be presented in a fair or impartial manner. I am glad you chose not to go that route.

    Anyway, that's my take on things, for what its worth. Good luck to you.
    definitely great feedback.

    I will say, since it is just first draft, I did write it more to defend non-manufacturer teams who provide improvements and software for devices than I did to write it over the fact that the touchpad needs/doesnt need the patches to work.

    Basically, the original article's whole purpose was to PROVE that HP should open source webos. That is the title of that article and the conclusion. For an op-ed....I would thus need to write proof that hp SHOULDNT open source webos. Which was the stance I took. Really, whether or not the touchpad needs them is a very, very small point. But Im glad you brought up that I didnt address that very well in the article. So, I'll be looking to add it.

    @agentmock

    Audiovox SMT5600 (WM) --> Cingular 8125 (WM) --> Sprint Mogul 8525 (WM) --> Palm Pre (webOS)- --> Sprint Franken Pre2 (webOS) + 32gb Touchpad (webOS)
  9. #29  
    Innnocent donation?

    What are you talking about?

    HP is committed to continue supporting the open source portionsof WebOS, because it helps their user base in ways THEY need it to.

    65fastback feels the need to respond; he wanted to do it on ZDNets site. I, and others recommend NOT helping Perlow achieve his goal of attracing hits to his page, which serves his own needs, gives him more crediblity and influence at ZDNet, and, most importantly, exposes his inuendo's to those who might not know any better, thereby doing webosinternals, HP and the webos community a huge disservice.

    If he chooses to submit his article to PC and PC posts it, thats HIS opinion, and Derek will decide whether or not it should be published or not on the front page, given what PC's policies are; personally, I would take no issue seeing his revised draft on the front page of PC, if it does reflect fact and he states his own opinions just as that.

    Enjoy your popcorn.
    Last edited by LCGuy; 08/06/2011 at 09:52 AM.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

    hparsons likes this.
  10. #30  
    You can argue against that article without soundling like you are waging a war against open source.

    The description of open source, in this draft, is condescending. You may focus on the article's mis-characterizing of what hacking or open source really means in this case, but not claiming open source is not important.

    I would suggest you revise it before submission for publishing.

    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
  11. #31  
    I think I echo others' sentiment in NOT sending this piece. It's a trap. This is a religious discussion...you're not going to covert anybody. He wants your piece because he wants to scan it for more ammunition. similar to the trolls around here, these guys live to argue. I find the best way to deal with them is to just ignore them.
  12. #32  
    my 2cents

    I dont know why you feel the need to respond to an article that in a way has nothing to do with you beside you owning a phone that has webos on it. Or touchpad.

    It was an attack on webos internals and I'm pretty sure Rod and his team are pretty smart guys that if they wanted to take the open ed they would, clearly rod has said he doesnt want to give this guy any attention so your going around Rod and internals by doing this. In a way kinda kicking more dirt at them.

    Keep our PC community comments on here and just leave it alone.

    Go take your wife out tonight and have some drinks and dont waste any more time on something that the one you are trying to defend doesnt want you to do it.

    That is all.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by johncc View Post
    +1 for not adding to Perlow's hit count. Submit the finished article for front page use on P|C.
    +3 Agreed. No reason to up that tool's page hit-count.
  14. #34  
    My thoughts from the original thread on this article.

    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    I agree with rod.... The moral high road is the way to go.

    being a super competitive large scary looking guy, I would love to see these guys get messed with. Over my years I have learned ******* and the internet don't help, attempting to confront the BS in the article will only continue to fuel the BS they are spewing. It is a fight that cannot be won on our side due to the fact that the majority are not yet on our side.

    Hopefully one day the majority is on our side and then we will have won. At this point we are battling false facts on this very site on a daily basis, fighting the battle against a "journalist" is a tough one. For those with the energy and ability, that really want to follow thru on this, try getting a rebuttal article with a competitor, even though this still gives traffic to the original article, you would be using their bs to pull readers to a competitor vs just adding to the traffic on their bs articles (supporting their business model).
    I would like to add to the, your rebuttal on P|C doesn't further anything. If you really want to do it, get it somewhere that is not webOS oriented, the webOS/Palm/HP forums will pick up on it if you get it published somewhere else, but it wont be associated with a niche. Just saying if you are really determined (or anyone else is) to respond to this garbage, do it in a way that makes it appear to outsiders like it is not a defense piece but a counter to the BS in that original article.

    Taking their op ed offer only dignifies their article, and having it posted first on a webOS site will only add to their traffic and their points (no matter how false they are). Remember if published this will be going to the court of public opinion...
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  15. #35  
    That hack journalist needs to stick to facts, write only about topics he understands, and check his sources before publishing such nonsense.

    It's funny that hey didn't mention the thousands of dollars raised for WebOS Internals by members of this forum.

    I didn't realize that we did that as part of some grand conspiracy. I thought we were just supporting things that we benefit from.
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by 65fastback View Post
    alright. Once I get the article finished....I'll submit to P|C then.

    See, thats why I ask for opinions =)
    I think you should use your time to write something that will get published. I'd be shocked if PC wanted to dignify that ridiculous blog barf.
    OldSkoolVWLover likes this.
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