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  1. #221  
    You can also say that there are more important things to deal with than have to wait with OTAs and live with bugs... Restarts, reboots... And lack of apps like doc editing... But in same respect you can say HP shouldnt have released so soon then and inconvenience people by selling a product not ready.

    A few people that frequent the forums may have had a clue and know what they were getting into. But Joe public was probably caught off guard and many are not as tech savvy and probably frustrated at some of the glitches and having to spend time talking to tech support when they knew and admitted to reviewers before launch and that an ota is on the way.

    Anyways... 14 hours left in the month... But this is not just waiting the month for an update... This is a matter of this tp being so late (months IMO) already and basically a gen1 ipad1 competitor and it's still not fully baked... Only my opinion

    Quote Originally Posted by cawhalen View Post
    It's not as if the OTA will not occur. I too am anxious for the update, but I have a life that exists whether the OTA occurs tomorrow or in 10 days. Either way, I want it to be right. In the mean time, I'm not looking forward to these types of "demand" posts. If your life is truly going to be that out of whack if you don't have an OTA "as committed", I'm sorry for you.
    Last edited by donm527; 07/31/2011 at 09:10 AM.
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  2. #222  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Exactly! Even though most of the stuff in the initial reviews was junk no one really cared about, the software issues were nearly dead on. People are still experiencing random luna restarts (not full reboots as some may think) and some much needed functionality is missing. The are going full bore on advertising a product that has some very annoying kinks in it. The return rate is not going to be pretty.
    I can tell you, as an early adopter of HP's touchsmart PCs - I didn't trust them to come through and took my TouchPad back. Am back to using my iPad Gen 1. Interestingly enough, I really find my 1st Gen iPad a step back in many things, the glaring exception being: it's not buggy and doesn't hang for 5-10 seconds a pop.

    HP can eat the return for all I care. I'll sit on the sidelines for a few months and see if they can pull off this launch. Thus far, it's classic big corporation trying to get into the consumer space - they put in the path of least resistance and hope to make money off it.
  3. #223  
    Quote Originally Posted by cawhalen View Post
    It's not as if the OTA will not occur. I too am anxious for the update, but I have a life that exists whether the OTA occurs tomorrow or in 10 days. Either way, I want it to be right. In the mean time, I'm not looking forward to these types of "demand" posts. If your life is truly going to be that out of whack if you don't have an OTA "as committed", I'm sorry for you.
    This is truly illogical. Many of us have supported this platform for over 2 years & certainly we have lives that go on. This is about corporate accountability. You miss dates like this & you lose customers....loyal and new. Again, it's a PRPRPR $mess$.

    Don't promise a date & miss it. In my line of work if we promise product that doesn't make it to the customer when advertised, patients do lose their lives. Obviously that's not the case with the TouchPad, but it does HP no favors, especially if there are enterprise class customers still waiting on the OTA.

    The list of examples can go on and on, but just because you're patient and forgiving doesn't make it wrong for customers to get angry about a missed deadline. Hold them accountable, or this cycle will never change!
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  4. #224  
    It seems to me that too many people have too much faith in the magical powers of this patch.

    I actually dread the patch; several times more of you will complain about what it didn't do.
  5. #225  
    Who else thinks it might be delivered august 1st to coincide with the new Pivot magazine?
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  6. #226  
    After all this time, the patch should be magical

    I still think they will release today ... I mean one positive is that this is mess was all under rubi's watch and he's gone now to that lateral move in the sky. Unfortunately the new chief inherited this soft launch/redo launch fiasco and can blame it all on rubi.

    But I can't imagine him starting his new position and knowing the fans here that are aware of the end of month primise and will be upset if it passes without a tiny release to say it's delayed... Any excuse would do.. Just send a note and blame it on rubi.

    It'll be out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    It seems to me that too many people have too much faith in the magical powers of this patch.

    I actually dread the patch; several times more of you will complain about what it didn't do.
  7. #227  
    So many of you keep missing the point. This really has very little to do with what the patch does, doesn't do, or what it might break. It has to do with a large corporate entity promising a release timeframe & then going silent. It's a true disservice to customers, regardless of the substance of the update.

    My point is, I don't care too much about the actual update items, aside from some bad luck for me on the hardware side of things, I love the device & that won't change with or without the update. But I also see this as continued erosion of trust & a complete disregard for their paying customers.

    Look, I get all of the potential reasons for a delay, and I'm thankful for those here that contribute those possible scenarios...but guess what, NONE of that has come from HP itself, and it should come well before the final promised date. THAT is the problem here.
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  8. gzinkl's Avatar
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    #228  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicblue View Post
    Being in IT myself and therefore with healthy respect for reality it is a fair bet that more than one of the following has occurred:

    1) The promised OTA update final testing hasn't gone well

    2) The senior HP Execs made their statements in good faith however the true reality of the patch position was at variance from what they had been briefed on

    3) There are quite possibly incompatibilities between the new patch and existing s/w applications and/or older hardware - i.e. the kit us early adopters have.


    The nature of design and manufacture when the kit is made on the other side of the world is that in all probability the 1st units were committed to production with components and parts ordered from the suppliers back in April - with tooling manufactured long before that. In the meanwhile the R&D teams are refining the design (typically a constant process), both at a component level, i.e. the case and also the production/assembly process itself. Most of us have TPs where the bit of the screen above the camera isn't flush with the rim of the back cover - that sort of issue will be sorted now.
    i understand all this, and counter the other poster who commented on this being a demand post, this is an accountability post. Stuff happens. But don't be silent on it. Do you want your spouse to not tell you when s/he has a fender bender, hoping you won't notice? Miss a deadline that you announced, come clean and ask for an extension. We have already noticed the deadline passing....
    steffej3 likes this.
  9. spewak's Avatar
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    #229  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mize View Post
    What sucks for HP is they've gone full bore on advertising and the TP is still unfinished.
    Unfinished???
    That, my friend, is an understatement of ginormous proportions! The overall usability of this thing is astoundingly bad for a product that was released to the general consumer. I am damn glad I still have one of my iPad's to use daily. I have a creeping suspicion that this OTA update is going to be rather mundane in that it won't address any substantive issues (camera use, duh!). I love WebOS, but this TP is a tablet of unfinished C--P!
  10. #230  
    Quote Originally Posted by steffej3 View Post
    This is truly illogical. Many of us have supported this platform for over 2 years & certainly we have lives that go on. This is about corporate accountability. You miss dates like this & you lose customers....loyal and new. Again, it's a PRPRPR $mess$.

    Don't promise a date & miss it. In my line of work if we promise product that doesn't make it to the customer when advertised, patients do lose their lives. Obviously that's not the case with the TouchPad, but it does HP no favors, especially if there are enterprise class customers still waiting on the OTA.

    The list of examples can go on and on, but just because you're patient and forgiving doesn't make it wrong for customers to get angry about a missed deadline. Hold them accountable, or this cycle will never change!
    I totally agree. In my line of work that could get people killed also. I don't hold HP to the standard that I am held to. I'm a little more lenient with them because having an update for my Touchpad is not a life or death matter.

    However, don't put out a date or timeframe and miss it. That shows weakness, a lack of control, and leaves an impression that you are unreliable and can't be trusted. Everyone knows that stuff happens that's why communication is very important. There should have been a press release or something letting the customer know what is going on and why there is a delay. We all want them to get it right but we also want them to get it out.
  11. #231  
    In reading some of these posts there is a delightful innocence with regard to the commercial reality of a large corporate undertaking a new product launch - i.e. the Touchpad.

    In one corner you have Product Marketing, in another Field Marketing, another for R&D and manufacturing and a further bunch of people wondering where the investment will have a return.

    So manufacturing agree a date, based on a best guess as to when the new product will be out of manufacturing (and accessories too) - that kicks of a myriad of processes. Product marketing plan a launch, get brochures, packaging, white papers, case studies - all with a date set in the future. Field marketing kick off with a press launch, pre-production examples get shown to the press (Feb 2011?) and start planning advertising slots, celebrities, media exposure - the launch date is set in stone. The marketing vision is creating desire in the consumers mind for a purchase decision.....

    In the background R&D are making changes, software development is never, ever finished and manufacturing capacity is committed - parts and components are ordered - that launch date is almost there - product finished or not.

    Launch date comes - the Exec team know it probably isn't finished 'marathon not a sprint comments', finished goods inventory is sat on the shelves and customers want to buy - and we bought didn't we?

    Now in the 21st Century no company expecting to survive gets a product onto the shelves 'finished' and then figures out the marketing launch - the product replacement cycles are too fast - 6 months to the next model announcement perhaps?

    Yeah, it's really frustrating - maddening even but the above is the absolute stark and massively simplified reality of launching a high volume consumer electronics product.

    Personally - and I'm in no way related to HP or its reseller channel either - I think HP have done a pretty reasonable job of getting the product to market and creating a buzz - the next 90 days will prove whether we all made good or bad buying decisions.
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  12. nhavar's Avatar
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    #232  
    I get this from my kids all the time: "but you promised!" and then the stomp around the house. Then I have to remind them that what I said was "we'll see if I can..." or "I hope we can..."

    Some days these forums remind me of my children. People bandy the word "promise" around out here as if they have a signed contract from the HP Board of Directors.

    Yes Todd Bradley said they planned for an update in about 10 days, another exec said they were hoping before the end of the month. But planning and hoping is not the same as promising. So kindly stop using the word "promise" in your posts unless you can quote some exec actually using that word.
  13. #233  
    Cosmicblue, they are all supposed to be talking to each other. There is also a "unity of command" when it comes to a product. Someone is overall in charge and that person should be receiving periodic briefs from all departments on product status. The availability of the OTA should be on that person's critical information list meaning it's status gets a lot more exposure. That person should know about any delays and the reasoning behind them. That person should have ensured that the consumer was briefed on the status of this release Friday (the last business day of the month). We all know that HP has twitter feeds and a Facebook page so if they did not want to go the traditional route they could have used their social media resources.
  14. #234  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    I get this from my kids all the time: "but you promised!" and then the stomp around the house. Then I have to remind them that what I said was "we'll see if I can..." or "I hope we can..."

    Some days these forums remind me of my children. People bandy the word "promise" around out here as if they have a signed contract from the HP Board of Directors.

    Yes Todd Bradley said they planned for an update in about 10 days, another exec said they were hoping before the end of the month. But planning and hoping is not the same as promising. So kindly stop using the word "promise" in your posts unless you can quote some exec actually using that word.
    I completely agree. However I also agree with those who say a little more feedback from HP would have been nice. If HP said a week ago "the update may be delayed by a few weeks because..." I think most people here would have been appreciative of that. But you are quite correct; the end of the month was a rough estimate.
  15. #235  
    Yeah... ya know, I'd really rather have a better update than a faster one.
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  16. #236  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    Cosmicblue, they are all supposed to be talking to each other. There is also a "unity of command" when it comes to a product. Someone is overall in charge and that person should be receiving periodic briefs from all departments on product status.
    Apologies for just taking a bit of your post - and I agree with your sentiments.

    The truth is that a lot of large IT companies a state of virtual anarchy exists - and HP will be no different. R&D never want to sign-off; "just give us a couple more weeks syndrome", manufacturing ***** (female dog) cos R&D keep changing the spec and Product Marketing are sat 'piggy in the middle' with field marketing (which is usually closely related to sales delivery) demanding product release - now - committed dates.

    Sales activity releases cash, cash drives businesses and justifies the initial investment which fuels more development - and maybe fixes the customer issues for the people that bought the kit in the first place..... Going to the market and saying 'sorry it isn't finished is incredibly damaging to the brand let alone shareholder value and will never be allowed to happen.
  17. #237  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    I get this from my kids all the time: "but you promised!" and then the stomp around the house. Then I have to remind them that what I said was "we'll see if I can..." or "I hope we can..."

    Some days these forums remind me of my children. People bandy the word "promise" around out here as if they have a signed contract from the HP Board of Directors.

    Yes Todd Bradley said they planned for an update in about 10 days, another exec said they were hoping before the end of the month. But planning and hoping is not the same as promising. So kindly stop using the word "promise" in your posts unless you can quote some exec actually using that word.
    Semantics. Communication is key, and there is none. I am fully committed to webOS, but it's increasingly difficult to believe that the commitment is mutual.

    Immediately following Rubi's 'planned' remark:

    Rubi: "And we're going to have a very high touch, intimate relationship with all of our customers. But we're going to have to get used to how we communicate how this innovation is coming every day."

    Well, if you ask me, that's a broken promise if i've ever seen one. So in that regard, i'll continue to use that term & rightfully so. Hey, there's still time, right?
  18. #238  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmicblue View Post

    2) The senior HP Execs made their statements in good faith however the true reality of the patch position was at variance from what they had been briefed on
    .
    They really should stop these over-promising, under delivering stuff that really dogged palm's later days with Rubinstein at the helm.

    Using a new over promise to cover prior under delivery can only last so long before it seriously damages the future of webOS.
  19. #239  
    Well I guess it would have been different if rubi said "we'll see if I can..." or "I hope we can..." lol

    But they did give a timetable... And they shouldn't be treating their customers like you treat your kids with your words

    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    I get this from my kids all the time: "but you promised!" and then the stomp around the house. Then I have to remind them that what I said was "we'll see if I can..." or "I hope we can..."
  20. #240  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    It seems to me that too many people have too much faith in the magical powers of this patch.

    I actually dread the patch; several times more of you will complain about what it didn't do.
    This is another danger, other than missed ota date. Rubinstein and co. created such a high expectation on this 0.02 patch, it will be extremely difficult to deliver.

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