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  1. #21  
    I agree with the post that if it launched with all the promises it would be fine. Personally, I think the best way to demonstrate your product is equal to another is to sell at the same price. I think HP wants to send the message that the TP is a top notch device and of course back that up with performance. IMO if you price dramatically less than the message is you are inferior and have to make up for it with pricing.

    I like my touchstone but the case is a far more important accessory to me and I would rather see it included in the box thus being another feature and allowing the product to be priced the same but include more features.
    PDA Lineage: Palm Pilot, Palm V, Palm Tungsten, Treo 650 (Cingular), Treo 750 (AT&T), Treo Pro GSM (unlocked), Pre Plus (AT&T), Pre 2 GSM (unlocked), Pre 3 16GB (AT&T Branded) and Touchpad 32 GB
    k4ever likes this.
  2. #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Of course, I did get 10% off ($60), plus am getting a $50 rebate, so I've already got my $100 (+) discount.
    I'm right around that $100 discount mark too, haven't done the math yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Oh yeah, then I got another one free.
    Still hate you.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsol View Post
    I like my touchstone but the case is a far more important accessory to me and I would rather see it included in the box thus being another feature and allowing the product to be priced the same but include more features.
    Anyone checked if that slip case that Costco includes in their bundle will allow charging on the Touchstone? Obviously it won't allow you to use the display while in the case but just curious about the charging aspect.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I think Android tablets are competing with themselves more than anything else. If I'm in the market for an Android tablet which one should I choose? There are so many. They do mostly the same thing and have the same specs (weight and thinness are not worthy specs to most people!) so which one do I choose from? The manufacturers are forced to take other steps to move sales along. I would not get involved in their internal (as a community) price war. It's going to get messy because unlike Android cell phones, there is no other party (cellular company) setting the price point. There is no clear way for HP to win in a price war that right now has nothing directly to do with them.

    While Androids are certainly fighting between themselves to a large degree, I disagree as this relates to what HP needs to do. For the average consumer that is walking into buy their first tablet, they will be faced with two choices, the I-Pad and "everything else." The TP is now one of the more expensive "elses" out there, plus it has a number of other disadvantages vrs the Androids:

    -Lots of people (and more everyday) are already familier with Android. True, it has had difficulty transitioning to a tablet, but there is still less of a learning curve for them and, even if the customer does realize that Android has had tablet issues, that helps the I-Pad more than the TP since everybody knows Apple and there is so little knowledge of webOS.

    -Apps, Apps, and Apps. Sure many Android Apps dont work great scaled up, but they still have more than the TP and they have some key ones that the TP is missing still such as Netflix and Document Editing. At a BB recently I saw two parents buying tablets for their kids for college, they both asked about being able to take notes and work on term papers and the like. The salesperson opened a docs app and talked about how they could create and edit Word documents - noted how easy it was to work on documents back and forth between a computer and the tablet . He also then pushed a keyboard that they had available to use as a display.

    -The folks in the stores that I have been in have no clue about webOS or the TP, especially what its strengths are vrs. the Androids. What they know is Apple and the Androids and those are what they are comfortable showing off and pushing. Also saw one BB guy really pushing the Thrive, noting to customers that, although it was thicker and heavier than other tablets, it had all of these connections and the SD card slot that made it more like a "real computer."

    -For every TP ad that is out there, there are thousands of Android ads -- not just tablets but phones as well. I know its not the same, but the name recognition of "Android" is a big deal for someone that has no idea what they really want. They see an android tablet and remember lots of android ads.

    -Its thicker and heavier and looks cheaper (plasticy) than many of the Androids. I know that may not be a big issue once you really use them in the real world and is has nothing to do with how the thing really runs, but for a customer that is just walking in, the thin, light and better looking Androids will have an appeal, unless they go for the Thrive (see above)

    -I don't think you can really appriciate the advantage of the cards, multitaskig and how smooth webOs can be playing with the device in the store. Swiping the Honeycomb pages and calling up apps seems as smooth and slick as swiping the webOS cards when you are standing in the store. Its only after you take webOS home and use it for a while in daily situations that the advantages really start to show up -- who really multitasks in the store?

    -Frankly, its easier to "play" with the android tablets than the TP. The TPs I have seen at BB are all tied to very short cords with the huge egg on the back and, in several instances, the TS have not even been working (no charge). At a few other places (walmart), they didnt even have the TP on display at all, it was in a locked case. The androids, by contrast always seem to be up and running and have long enough cords to really handle them.

    The advantages of webOS (and there are many) could outweigh many of these issues once the device is purchased and a person gets familier with it, but the person who has never used webOS before is faced with three main choices at the store:

    -pay more for an I-Pad that they know is the really cool choice, know has lots of Apps and probably know somebody that has one that raves about it, and assumes that it will be supported for a long time since it is the "big name" that will always be around.

    -pay a lot less for someting they at least think they are familer with (thanks to their android phone) and that they believe will do the job. And, even if its not an I-Pad, it sure costs less and at least some of them are pretty thin and light and look nice and well-made, and the salespeople were able to talk about it.

    -Pay same as an I-Pad for a TP that they really don't know anything about, that the salespeople really don't know anything about, that may look cheap to them compared to the less expensive options, that does not have the name recognition of I-Pad or Android, that does not have as many apps or the key ones they think they want and so forth and they could not really play with well at the store.

    In all, I think that, at this point anyway, many customers will decide that, if they are going to pay "that much," they might as well buy an I-Pad. The graph set out above pretty much says the same thing vis-a-vis an android decision and, I would submit, would be even MORE weighted to the lower-price side for the TP since it has less visability at this point to the average comsumer as well as all of the above.

    P.S. I do like the idea above about a coupon as opposed to a straight price drop. That would give more flexability when it comes to later deals like bundling accessories or black friday specials.
    Last edited by midmofan; 07/28/2011 at 12:12 PM.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by ashakouri1 View Post
    The Touchpad needs a $100 price drop for both the 16 and 32 Gig versions. You need to compete with the iPad2, and I really don't see the average Joe paying the same price. Regardless of views on WebOS and Multi-tasking, you need to speak to the consumers pocket.

    The Xoom sales went up significantly on Amazon after the price drop. A 32 Gig Zoom for $489.00 is a great deal.
    well thanks! Do you own a marketing firm and have you informed HP of this? Who knew you had the fix. Wonderful stuff. Thanks again.
    hparsons likes this.
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by midmofan View Post
    While Androids are certainly fighting between themselves to a large degree....................................................................
    P.S. I do like the idea above about a coupon as opposed to a straight price drop. That would give more flexability when it comes to later deals like bundling accessories or black friday specials.
    Wow, you wrote a book!

    The Android market is crazy! It is also very under developed and immature. You have a bunch of low cost Android tablets out there. You can actually get one for close to $100 but the hardware and services will definitely be subpar. Of course the lower price Android tablets eat into the higher priced Android tablet market big time. However, webOS and iOS are not Android.

    I think HP is trying to differentiate itself to the point that most people will say that there is the iPad, there is the Touchpad, and there is everything else. Most reviewers even acknowledge webOS as having it's own identity. I think HP is trying to push that identity forward and convince users that there is value in that identity.

    There is also value in a product from a company that controls every aspect of the product from hardware to software to service to marketing. Companies that care about what happens after the sale. I really haven't seen that yet in the Android market even with the larger players. Most of the Android players, small or large, don't seem care too much about what happens after the sale. HP and Apple seem to be the only tablet manufacturers that do.

    I think we all agree that HP needs to be more competitive with the Touchpad. I don't think we can agree on exactly how they need to do it.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Midway99 View Post
    well thanks! Do you own a marketing firm and have you informed HP of this? Who knew you had the fix. Wonderful stuff. Thanks again.
    Midway99, you are so cynical!
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by milominderbinder View Post
    This summary of the full survey is very telling:


    The TouchPad would be a less known quantity but these same pricepoints still hold. Marketing 101: If you are late to market, match the specs and beat the price.

    That's the theory. Here's the reality: Staples giving $100 off select tablets, what will you be buying? Stables stores are selling out of these 10 Tablets as fast as they can restock through 7/30/11.

    A coupon would be great for HP because they can keep the retail price at $500 that they need for their national contracts. Consumers love coupons because the item is still a $500, they just got a deal! They will tell everyone. When you are ready just end the coupon and your price is back to $500. If you do a price drop, you can never raise the price back up.

    Why is it that HP must match the iPad on price not undercut?
    Milo, those surveys don't tell the whole story. If this were asked to iPad users about Android tablets, or Touchpad users about Android/iPad tablets the results would probably be the same. Who wouldn't want to get the same thing for a lower price?

    Guess what, Android tablets are already offered at those different price points. They've been that way for well over 9 months now. You can get a 10 inch Android Tablet for as low as $155. Don't believe me, just Google it. You don't see them flying off the shelves right now, do you? They are definitely not selling as well as or even remotely competing with the iPad at the lower price points. Even the ones that match or exceed the iPad's specs.

    Why? Well its not just about the price. It's not just about the apps. It's not just about the specs (most $500 windows laptops are faster than and have more features than a $1200 Macbook). It's about the whole ecosystem. That ecosystem includes rock solid support and services after the sale. That gets figured into the value by level minded folks. Why do you think Toyota can sell their horriblely driving "toasters" or Honda can sell their hideous Civics for a slightly higher price than their faster, better driving, better looking, and lower cost competitors? People see value in their products. People see value in Apple. People see value in HP. This is not easily explained with a pie chart.

    Edit: Funny! I clicked on you link for the story at Android Central and there was a Touchpad add in the upper right corner of the story's page! Priceless!
    Last edited by k4ever; 07/28/2011 at 02:26 PM.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post

    Guess what, Android tablets are already offered at those different price points. They've been that way for well over 9 months now. You can get a 10 inch Android Tablet for as low as $155. Don't believe me, just Google it. You don't see them flying off the shelves right now, do you? They are definitely not selling as well as or even remotely competing with the iPad at the lower price points. Even the ones that match or exceed the iPad's specs.
    Which 10" android tab cost $155 with decent spec and honeycomb?

    Eee pad is $100 cheaper and flying off the shelf all the time. That doesn't mean anything?
  10. #30  
    Folks... Please stay on topic.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Which 10" android tab cost $155 with decent spec and honeycomb?

    Eee pad is $100 cheaper and flying off the shelf all the time. That doesn't mean anything?
    There was no mention of Honeycomb by me or Milo. We were talking about similar hardware specs and price points. Google "10 inch Android tablet" and you will see one for about $155 with 1080p video and HDMI out. Believe it's running 2.2, but hate to say it most Android devices are. Some tablet makers did not want to go with 3.x (HTC being one of them) this early in the game. However its irrelevant to our conversation. There are so many Android tablets out there at different price points and none of them are beating the iPad's sales numbers so the chart doesn't mean anything.

    I would love to see the Eee pad's sales rate as compared to the iPad. Probably won't come close to the iPad's sales rate even though its $100 less. That doesn't mean its not a good seller but there seems to be this "failure" label posted on everything that doesn't come close to the iPad's rates.

    The point is that price is not everything. Service and support matters also.

    Edit: To keep this in the perspective of the topic, simply dropping the price of the Touchpad will not guarantee it's success. It takes more than just that.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    Folks... Please stay on topic.
    What was the topic again???

    Maybe this should merge with some other "HP is overcharging for TouchPad" threads?
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    .

    Edit: To keep this in the perspective of the topic, simply dropping the price of the Touchpad will not guarantee it's success. It takes more than just that.
    Nobody is suggesting that succeed has to mean "sell more than ipad". Dropping price will improve sales. Its not everything touchpad needs to succeed (i.e., good sales), but it helps a great deal. Especially when it doesn't boast great hardwares, or an enormous ecosystem.

    Eee pad is prejecting a sale of 4.5mil in 2h of this year.
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    #34  
    OK, so part of the issue here is defining what success means for the TP. Let me suggest that I think success for HP WILL mean taking some of the iPads market. I would suggest they wont get by simply supplying these to current pre users.
    iPad has become the standard to the point people use it synonymously to mean tablet. They may be banking on "being there for the long haul" and taking part of the marketshare from continued expansion in the tablet market. But their hardware and software isnt as well known, not mature, they dont have the ecosystem, and they have no use case in business. So how do they expect to gain traction by introducing themsleves at the same price as the rest of the market?
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    That being said I think HP should offer bundles with financing like they are doing for the Singapore launch. I was hoping for a back to school bundle complete with a free HP wireless printer and 1/2 off an HP care package. They also need to stress warranty and services after the sale. That is what got me to buy a Hyundai Elantra as a second car over a Ford Focus. The same things matter to folks buying any other high dollar value item.
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I agree completely. I think what some people miss though, is that if HP lowers the price now, that means they've killed the margin that allows them to offer bundles.
    With all of the news about retailers offering rebates with bundles on the Touchpad, we now see which strategy HP went with.

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I think Android tablets are competing with themselves more than anything else. If I'm in the market for an Android tablet which one should I choose? There are so many. They do mostly the same thing and have the same specs (weight and thinness are not worthy specs to most people!) so which one do I choose from? The manufacturers are forced to take other steps to move sales along. I would not get involved in their internal (as a community) price war. It's going to get messy because unlike Android cell phones, there is no other party (cellular company) setting the price point. There is no clear way for HP to win in a price war that right now has nothing directly to do with them.
    Here is a story that proves that point:

    Android Races to the Bottom with $500 4G Tablet - Yahoo! News
  16. #36  
    My answer when people ask me which tablet gives you the most for the money? "Well, you can get a refurbished 16GB iPad for $350 with a 1-year warranty..." That's usually all they need to hear. $300 is the magic price point IMO. When you can buy a perfectly capable netbook for $250 or less, it's really hard to justify paying a lot more for less capability. At least it is for me.
    Touchscreens are a fad.
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    What was the topic again???

    Maybe this should merge with some other "HP is overcharging for TouchPad" threads?
    That's the problem, there was never any real reason given, other than the op thought it should be cheaper.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    That's the problem, there was never any real reason given, other than the op thought it should be cheaper.
    This thread has completely died since we have been hit with a deluge of rebate stories. I think folks are finally seeing how HP does business. You still get your money off the sales price yet the device list price stays the same. HP wants you to believe you are getting a sweet deal on the price of a "more expensive" device. This fits right in to the American psyche, ie "I got a $30,000 car for $27,000". It becomes sort of like a contest to see who can get the better deal. Works a lot better than simply dropping the price by $100 and devaluing the device in the eyes of the consumer.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    This thread has completely died since we have been hit with a deluge of rebate stories. I think folks are finally seeing how HP does business. You still get your money off the sales price yet the device list price stays the same. HP wants you to believe you are getting a sweet deal on the price of a "more expensive" device. This fits right in to the American psyche, ie "I got a $30,000 car for $27,000". It becomes sort of like a contest to see who can get the better deal. Works a lot better than simply dropping the price by $100 and devaluing the device in the eyes of the consumer.
    Lets see how that works by end of Aug. The theory is based on the assumption that customers indeed think touchpad worth MSRP to begin with.

    I agree that's apparently how hp does business, im just not sure that's a good strategy in this very competitive, highly visible market, where many product s just have one shot before being overwhelmed by newer, faster toys.
    Last edited by clevin; 07/31/2011 at 11:13 AM.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Lets see how that works by end of Aug. The theory is based on the assumption that customers indeed think touchpad worth MSRP to begin with.

    I agree that's apparently how hp does business, im just not sure that's a good strategy in this very competitive, highly visible market, where many product s just have one shot before being overwhelmed by newer, faster toys.
    Unfortunately most folks based the value of a product solely off the price given by the manufacturer. Not too many folks take the time (or even care) to actually do a full analysis on the cost. Either way, the OP is getting what he/she wants, there is just some sales and marketing voodoo thrown in.

    Also, I truly hope that HP makes this market more mature. I'm sick and tired of buying mobile products that the manufacturer makes prematurely obsolete (ie, stops supporting and releasing updates for) in order to force you into buying another one. $500 is too much of a cost to be playing that game. I don't treat this thing as a toy!
    OldSkoolVWLover likes this.
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