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  1. #21  
    I think the points are mostly fair and valid, and I like the input. I agree 75% or more.

    But here are some clarifications (and hope they don't sound too defensive).

    Quote Originally Posted by osu9400 View Post

    1. The browser is horrible. It is barely functional. You know when you go to Starbucks and you have to agree to the terms to use their ATT wifi? Well, that language is all stacked on top of other sections. Try browsing through photos on facebook -- it is a challenge. The browser also scores the lowest of any modern browser on the acid 3 test.
    Disagree with you here. The browser isn't perfect, but it isn't horrible (flash, acid score in 90's ain't bad, html 5 support - these are all things that weren't true with the version of Safari on iPad1, yet I think many felt that was a good browser.

    I do agree the javascript part is too slow.
    2. What is the difference between APPS and DOWNLOADS? So confusing.
    ...

    4. Why no folders to organize my apps? Maybe it's because of the lack of apps. I would like to have a "Reading" foldeer and one for "Games" and "Movies and TV" etc...
    This is weird. WebOS 2 let users make their own folders, organize them, etc. It had something iOS did not. Yet this feature was removed on webos 3.x. Hoping they bring it back.

    There is a patch now to add in a few extra, but we need the full functionality to return.

    5. This is the least fluid of any of the devices I own. My phone running Mango is the smoothest, followed by the ipad, followed by the HP. The HP sometimes stutters as you navigate and browse.

    6. Button clicking doesn't always work. When I try to tap an on-screen button I see the little animation on screen, but it doesn't always activate the control. After several attempts, it usually kicks in.
    Agreed. The stutter/delay is supposedly being addressed in the patch due any day now.

    7. This is just a learning item for me, but in a multitasking environment would expect to see a close option or an "X" -- with the TouchPad it is a two-step action to hit the home button to get to the task list, then you throw the app away. What should take on tap, not takes a click and throwing motion.

    8. I guess the only way to switch between browser instances is to go to the task list? I don't see a "tab" option anywhere.
    No tabs, no task list, no x. To see what is running, or to get ready to close an app, put your finger below the LCD panel (in any orientation), and flick into the middle. That will minimize the app, and let you then either flick it right or left to scroll to another, or flick it off screen. When you are used to it, you can do the minimize/flick in a gesture and a half.
    KA1
    Visor Deluxe->Visor Prism/Digital Link->Treo 650->Treo 700p->Pre->GSM Unlocked Pre 2 (wifi only)->FrankenPre + Touchpad 32 ->+ Touchpad 4G ATT + ATT Pre3 + 64 White Touchpad... bliss.
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  2. StompAWOT's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by osu9400 View Post
    To all-

    Thanks for the responses, but some of you are getting really defensive. My post was not a "slam the TouchPad" article -- as I said more than once. I am keeping the TouchPad (although I am replacing this one due to a case defect). This is honest feedback from 1 week of heavy use. Since 95% of the world has never heard of WebOS and even fewer people have even used it, this is valid feedback that others would have as well.

    Some of the responses to my post are very Apple like in their defense of a glaring feature as a "logical choice" or even a strength. Since I'm not married to one product, I have the luxury of stepping back and doing some honest comparisons. For example, the lack of a rear facing camera shouldn't be up to HP to decide if it makes sense. They should provide a flexible tool and let the app writers and users figure out creative ways to utilize it. As I said before the HP Slate 500 has it, the ipad 2 has it, even the Nintendo DSi has it, so "someone" thinks it makes sense.

    I have to be honest and agree with you here.

    For the record, I'm an "anything but Apple" guy who ended up getting two iPad 2's (pre Touchpad release) since I view them as great learning tools for our kids. I've said it before here and elsewhere - I don't think they are as functional as they could/should be, but for the most part the experience is very "smooth". I love my Touchpad, I use it more than the iPad, but (in the current build) it simply isn't as smooth as the iPad's.

    Back to the purpose of my response - I think it's unfair that a number of people jump down somebody's throat when they have constructive criticism and/or an opinion that isn't glowing. By acknowledging the shortcomings it's already obvious HP is taking it seriously, and I hope the forthcoming update helps to alleviate a number of the real issues that people have brought up.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by osu9400 View Post
    2. What is the difference between APPS and DOWNLOADS? So confusing.

    3. Lack of quality apps hurts big time. The Windows Phone "only" has 25,000 apps at this time, but most of them are high quality. HP could take a lesson from how Microsoft is courting app developers.

    4. Why no folders to organize my apps? Maybe it's because of the lack of apps. I would like to have a "Reading" foldeer and one for "Games" and "Movies and TV" etc...

    5. This is the least fluid of any of the devices I own. My phone running Mango is the smoothest, followed by the ipad, followed by the HP. The HP sometimes stutters as you navigate and browse.

    6. Button clicking doesn't always work. When I try to tap an on-screen button I see the little animation on screen, but it doesn't always activate the control. After several attempts, it usually kicks in.

    7. This is just a learning item for me, but in a multitasking environment would expect to see a close option or an "X" -- with the TouchPad it is a two-step action to hit the home button to get to the task list, then you throw the app away. What should take on tap, not takes a click and throwing motion.

    8. I guess the only way to switch between browser instances is to go to the task list? I don't see a "tab" option anywhere.

    9. The hardware itself is OK, but doesn't feel as solid as the ipad.

    10. Camera? Where do I start here? First of all, there is only a front camera. Why is there no rear facing camera? Don't tell me "it doesn't make sense" because HP included both cameras on their Slate 500. Now, how in the heck could someone ship WebOS without a camera app?!?!? <--- CRAZY.

    11 (new). Why is Bing the default map provider, but Bing isn't available as one of the built-in search providers? I am on a Google-free diet right now and this experiment is difficult with the HP.
    In terms of UI fluidity (ignoring any hardware limitation on speed or multi-processing and UI bugs), webOS design is hard to beat.

    Once you get used to webOS (in its prime, which we've yet to see with a primetime hardware and with all the bugs worked out), you'll start to see that other OS just can't compare. I haven't used Mango so can't speak to it but it's worlds better than Android, which I also own.

    As for your itemized list:
    2. Semantics
    3. Give it time
    4. Organize your apps in diff panes. You can install folder browser as a patch if you want.
    5. Give it time. You'll begin to really love webOS.
    6. HP really needs to work out all the kinks. It's not a webOS design problem per se. More of a hardware and bug issue.
    7. You want an "X" to kill your app? Just upswipe to minimize to card view and swipe up. I'd much rather do that all day than to be stuck in a long-press hell hole. Also you have to pinpoint press the "X" as opposed to just upswiping to kill an app. There's also a sense of "fun" and satisfaction that comes from upswiping to kill apps. You'll see.
    8. Quick tab would be nice. But card view and switch is very easy.
    9. Agreed.
    10. Agreed.
    11. Bing's not so bad.
    threed61#WN likes this.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by ka1 View Post
    This is weird. WebOS 2 let users make their own folders, organize them, etc. It had something iOS did not. Yet this feature was removed on webos 3.x. Hoping they bring it back.

    There is a patch now to add in a few extra, but we need the full functionality to return.
    Never Happened..

    if by folders you mean launcher pages, than thats a different story.. i think the OP meant actual folders though.. which is a great way to organize with out needing to add more launcher pages.

    with Just Type its all Moot i guess , id still like to see actual folders in webOS though
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by sketch42 View Post
    with Just Type its all Moot i guess , id still like to see actual folders in webOS though
    Ughh I love not having folders. Then again I sit in front of a computer all day long with nothing but folders, in folders on folders, operating in currently 6 different drives (4 of which are shared) and my desktop.

    Also I have gotten so used to "Just Typing" on the phones with hardware keyboard, I don't even think about it most days.

    With the patch to add the 2 extra pages I have been able to do pretty well and with the tabbed layout I am getting used to tapping on what page I want to go to. This may also come with a history with Palm OS, I had a handspring when I was 14ish IIRC so I have gotten used to the general way Palm lays things out. I would like for some more user customization to come.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  6. osu9400's Avatar
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       #26  
    One more point to clarify, I never said I wanted an "X" to close an app. My point was that in a multitasking systems such as this, most users expect a single one step kill process. We've grown up with this. It's baked into our being. With WebOS, a single close step is now a click + swipe, or swipe + swipe. Does anyone see my point that new users will think this is extra work to perform the most basic of end-user functions?
    Last edited by osu9400; 07/25/2011 at 05:45 PM.
  7. osu9400's Avatar
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       #27  
    @laoh, I actually prefer BING over Google. My point was about consistency. Why is Bing the default mapper but not even an option as the search engine?
  8. osu9400's Avatar
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       #28  
    having a folder feature does not mean you need to use them. Consider iOS. They added folders in version 4 (which I really think was 3??). Anyway, you can put some apps in folders or leave some out. Your choice.

    I agree about typing. Once of Windows 7 best features is the full index. If you don't know where a doc, program, or email is, just type and it will instantly show up. I would still like folders.


    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Ughh I love not having folders. Then again I sit in front of a computer all day long with nothing but folders, in folders on folders, operating in currently 6 different drives (4 of which are shared) and my desktop.

    Also I have gotten so used to "Just Typing" on the phones with hardware keyboard, I don't even think about it most days.

    With the patch to add the 2 extra pages I have been able to do pretty well and with the tabbed layout I am getting used to tapping on what page I want to go to. This may also come with a history with Palm OS, I had a handspring when I was 14ish IIRC so I have gotten used to the general way Palm lays things out. I would like for some more user customization to come.
  9. osu9400's Avatar
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       #29  
    @loah. Yes!! IE's Quick Tabs would be great. If you have 10 browser cards open and they are all stacked, what's the easiest way to see a thumbnail of each? There is no obvious way.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by osu9400 View Post
    I agree about typing. Once of Windows 7 best features is the full index. If you don't know where a doc, program, or email is, just type and it will instantly show up. I would still like folders.
    This is one of the best additions to Windows in a LONG time. I like not having to dig thru the start menu if I haven't used a program recently and try and figure out where it is. Especially moving between my work PC, netbook, HTPC, and the desktop (sadly only 2 of the 4 run windows 7, but the two that don't are pretty well dialed in for my daily use).
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  11. ksom's Avatar
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    #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by osu9400 View Post
    To all-

    Thanks for the responses, but some of you are getting really defensive. My post was not a "slam the TouchPad" article -- as I said more than once. I am keeping the TouchPad (although I am replacing this one due to a case defect). This is honest feedback from 1 week of heavy use. Since 95% of the world has never heard of WebOS and even fewer people have even used it, this is valid feedback that others would have as well.

    Some of the responses to my post are very Apple like in their defense of a glaring feature as a "logical choice" or even a strength. Since I'm not married to one product, I have the luxury of stepping back and doing some honest comparisons. For example, the lack of a rear facing camera shouldn't be up to HP to decide if it makes sense. They should provide a flexible tool and let the app writers and users figure out creative ways to utilize it. As I said before the HP Slate 500 has it, the ipad 2 has it, even the Nintendo DSi has it, so "someone" thinks it makes sense.
    I think your comment about missing "x" button makes any WebOS user chuckle a little. It is good that you switch between devices, but you need to know the most optimized way to use a device. In fact, WebOS in general is a lot more flexible than iOS and provides more user choices.

    If not having Flash on iPad is not a biggie, why not having a rear camera is a biggie? Relative speaking, Flash is a lot more useful than the rear camera IMHO. You can say people are leaving Flash for HTML5, but the fact today is that there are far more Flash content on the Web than HTML5. We could also speculate that rear may allow programmers to come up some really nice Apps, but the fact is that that has not happened, yet.

    I think the real shortcomings of TP we agree, it would be much better if the performance is better.
    Palm V -> Treo 600 (lost) -> Treo 650 -> Centro -> Pre -> Photon
  12. #32  
    To OP - I saw some survey HP sent to TouchPad customers. Lots of your issues with webOS are covered by survey questions. It looks like HP is fully aware of some issues regarding performance and quality of apps. For me it's a sign that HP is comited to improve TP performance and to act accordingly user expectations. Now, when you already own TP, you can look at things from other perspective, you have chance to witness platform growth by each update HP release, and in some part to take active roll in webOS development. Fill survey, post your opinions about TP on HP support site, and wait for first 3.0.2 update.
  13. osu9400's Avatar
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       #33  
    I would trade a rear facing camera for Flash. YouTube doesn't even require flash anymore. The key for major HTML5 adoption is IE. IE9 is the first HTML5 browser from MS. Once we rid ourselves of IE6,7,8 then the pendulum will swing fast.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by osu9400 View Post
    To all-

    Thanks for the responses, but some of you are getting really defensive. My post was not a "slam the TouchPad" article -- as I said more than once. I am keeping the TouchPad (although I am replacing this one due to a case defect). This is honest feedback from 1 week of heavy use. Since 95% of the world has never heard of WebOS and even fewer people have even used it, this is valid feedback that others would have as well.

    Some of the responses to my post are very Apple like in their defense of a glaring feature as a "logical choice" or even a strength. Since I'm not married to one product, I have the luxury of stepping back and doing some honest comparisons. For example, the lack of a rear facing camera shouldn't be up to HP to decide if it makes sense. They should provide a flexible tool and let the app writers and users figure out creative ways to utilize it. As I said before the HP Slate 500 has it, the ipad 2 has it, even the Nintendo DSi has it, so "someone" thinks it makes sense.

    Personally I equate the rear camera on a tablet to the front camera on a phone, pointless. I'm not going to be holding up my tablet to take pictures or movies, I have a phone for that. And on the flip side of that, I don't care to hold a video conversation on a phone screen when I can do it on a tablet screen or a computer screen that is much larger and possibly actually worth the effort.

    That's my honest feedback.
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  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by osu9400 View Post
    I would trade a rear facing camera for Flash. YouTube doesn't even require flash anymore. The key for major HTML5 adoption is IE. IE9 is the first HTML5 browser from MS. Once we rid ourselves of IE6,7,8 then the pendulum will swing fast.
    The fact that IE6 is still even a consideration at all right should tell you how long that'll take...
  16. #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    The fact that IE6 is still even a consideration at all right should tell you how long that'll take...
    Wait IE is still a consideration??

    Sorry couldn't help it, I use IE for 1 web based app from a 3rd party vendor, they may have even fixed the software to work with FF, but it's alright easy have the one windows running this app (when you login it pops out into a new window so it can't be ran in a tab anyways).
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Personally I equate the rear camera on a tablet to the front camera on a phone, pointless. I'm not going to be holding up my tablet to take pictures or movies, I have a phone for that. And on the flip side of that, I don't care to hold a video conversation on a phone screen when I can do it on a tablet screen or a computer screen that is much larger and possibly actually worth the effort.

    That's my honest feedback.
    If you take a look at how other people use and view a feature and not just yourself, then you might find justification for its purpose.
  18. #38  
    osu9400...good points. I'm a gadget junkie, and I've found it better to experience new systems as they are, rather than comparing to what I'm used to. I like wp7 a lot, better than android or Ios. IE still sux, would use at least 5 browsers ahead of it. Thanks for your observations.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    If you take a look at how other people use and view a feature and not just yourself, then you might find justification for its purpose.
    Nope. All I find is a reason why Apple's single product line design philosophy won't do as well once their marketing machine finally reaches it's breakdown point and why the design philosophy other OS platforms are adopting, to offer different options for different preferences, is better.

    Also, here's hoping HP picks up steam so that can afford to diversify the webOS lines.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Nope. All I find is a reason why Apple's single product line design philosophy won't do as well once their marketing machine finally reaches it's breakdown point and why the design philosophy other OS platforms are adopting, to offer different options for different preferences, is better.

    Also, here's hoping HP picks up steam so that can afford to diversify the webOS lines.
    Huh? That came from left field.

    What I was saying is, not everyone uses a device the same way you particularly do. For example: I don't often use the rear camera on my tablet, but I like having it there for the few times that I do use it.

    Is it a deal breaker? Maybe not for you, but why should it be a deal breaker period when it was something that could have easily been included? Having it excluded is no added benefit to the user that finds no use in it.
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