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  1. #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    I looked back over their last call. I don't think they will give unit numbers at all. The last call they gave a % of profit rise or decline by group. So like PC profits fell this %, Imaging and printing fell this perceantage, Financials services grew this percentage.
    Tablet is much scrutinized market, HP can't get away with their old fashion PC strategy. No numbers will only add to suspicion and negatively affect opinions.

    Plus, shipping numbers will always be better than sales through number, why would they withhold shipping number and let marketing analysis firm to track sales through number and make touchpad sales looking bad?
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I heard this exact happy talk before the launch of touchpad.

    HP is planning 3milliln sales by the end of the year. If they achieve that, that's still not enough to knock of android from #2. If they can't even achieve that, there will be more questions than marketing strategy.

    Wait for several months, shall we? Speculations will not clarify thie original question one bit.
    They don't have to knock the entire Android platform out of the #2 spot to brag about being #2. They just have to become the #2 device sold. Android may claim the #2 spot as a platform but that is shared among over 2 dozen or so devices. The Touchpad can sell one more than the most popular Android device, then claim the #2 spot.

    I don't understand the fascination with some numbers in the mobile world. Companies throw out arbitrary numbers that don't really mean anything once you scratch the surface and everyone goes gaga over them. Apple is king at this. Their app store had less apps than Windows mobile did but they talked about their numbers so much that people started believing they had more apps. The shear number of downloads from their app store are never divided by the number of devices they have on the market and how long the app store has been opened. I think that numbers don't mean anything without context because without that you are just being "dazzled with BS" as my old boss used to say.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I heard this exact happy talk before the launch of touchpad.

    HP is planning 3milliln sales by the end of the year. If they achieve that, that's still not enough to knock of android from #2. If they can't even achieve that, there will be more questions than marketing strategy.

    Wait for several months, shall we? Speculations will not clarify thie original question one bit.
    True they won't knock Android from its perch, but at the moment HP just wants the TouchPad to be the second most sold device. PC sales are broken down manufacturer, not OS. Tablet sales are also broken down by manufacturer.

    If you are in the position of Samsung who is going through litigation with Apple over your Android system and you are only coming in third in total tablet sales behind Apple and HP, you are going to start questioning whether Android is worth the trouble. What's the point of being on the "most popular" OS when the two tablets that don't use it still manage to sell better?

    HP wants to turn this into a two horse race with Apple. If they can do that, you may start seeing Android fade. (speculation, sure. But this thread is talking about the sales numbers of a device that has been out less than a month; speculation is part of the game)
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I don't understand the fascination with some numbers in the mobile world. Companies throw out arbitrary numbers that don't really mean anything once you scratch the surface and everyone goes gaga over them.
    In case of TP its not about fascination, more about fear that TP is not selling nearly close to HP estimations.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    True they won't knock Android from its perch, but at the moment HP just wants the TouchPad to be the second most sold device. PC sales are broken down manufacturer, not OS. Tablet sales are also broken down by manufacturer.

    If you are in the position of Samsung who is going through litigation with Apple over your Android system and you are only coming in third in total tablet sales behind Apple and HP, you are going to start questioning whether Android is worth the trouble. What's the point of being on the "most popular" OS when the two tablets that don't use it still manage to sell better?

    HP wants to turn this into a two horse race with Apple. If they can do that, you may start seeing Android fade. (speculation, sure. But this thread is talking about the sales numbers of a device that has been out less than a month; speculation is part of the game)
    Well, ecosystem isn't devided among different honeycomb tabs.

    The calculation you "think" hp is doing, may or may not be true. But I dont think it really matters, in the end, it's about how many installation base are there for ecosystem to thrive.

    Maybe hp will beat all android combined, or not. It doesn't master as much a how many units they sold. hp can be a happy #3 with 3mil sold this year. Or a miserable #2 with 1mil sales.

    In there end, we all know hp has a goal of 3mil in the year. Which is a reasonable number for ecosystem to thrive. Whatever you may think hp's strategy is, lets just wait and see the numbers by then.

    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    In case of TP its not about fascination, more about fear that TP is not selling nearly close to HP estimations.
    But what if the Touchpad does meet HP's expectations? We all know that reviewers will compare those numbers to iPad or overall Android sells and still declare the Touchpad DOA. HP said time and time that they were going after the business end of the market with the Touchpad, that they weren't competing against the iPad, yet all of the initial reviews compared the Touchpad literally ounce per ounce, inch per inch with the iPad. Very few looked at the business aspects of the Touchpad. So what will keep others from using the numbers against HP or the Touchpad in general? I'm not sure what the OP's intention was for asking this question. gamcgrath, will you please elaborate?
  7. #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by SnotBoogie View Post
    I looked back over their last call. I don't think they will give unit numbers at all. The last call they gave a % of profit rise or decline by group. So like PC profits fell this %, Imaging and printing fell this perceantage, Financials services grew this percentage...
    Tonthe best of my knowledge, HP seldom talks about specific model sales in actual numbers. This whole "if sales were good, they'd be talking about them" stuff is just FUD from the usual cast of nay-sayers on here.

    The bottom line is that HP is going to be selling WebOS tablets and phones for quite some time. Get used to it.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    But what if the Touchpad does meet HP's expectations? We all know that reviewers will compare those numbers to iPad or overall Android sells and still declare the Touchpad DOA. HP said time and time that they were going after the business end of the market with the Touchpad, that they weren't competing against the iPad, yet all of the initial reviews compared the Touchpad literally ounce per ounce, inch per inch with the iPad. Very few looked at the business aspects of the Touchpad. So what will keep others from using the numbers against HP or the Touchpad in general? I'm not sure what the OP's intention was for asking this question. gamcgrath, will you please elaborate?
    Why not? Its displayed alongside with other tabs, priced similar, looks similar, do similar basic things. Why can't they be compared? It's not like it's a totally new market hp is creating. Hp can't change the facts just buy making a statement.

    They are not competing with ipad? When did they first make that statement? Before launch?

    Targeting business? Thats perfectly fine, still need numbers to show some progress, right?
  9. #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Why not? Its displayed alongside with other tabs, priced similar, looks similar, do similar basic things. Why can't they be compared? It's not like it's a totally new market hp is creating. Hp can't change the facts just buy making a statement.

    They are not competing with ipad? When did they first make that statement? Before launch?

    Targeting business? Thats perfectly fine, still need numbers to show some progress, right?
    Of course but those numbers need to show progress towards HP's goals, not the broader tablet market, which I believe chalx was pointing out. I then pointed out that those numbers would not be compared to HP's goals but to the overall tablet market and you so gracefully proved my point.
  10. #70  
    Yeah, I was pointing toward HP estimated sales numbers and I agree those numbers if reached will not be treated as success by "analysts," but it would give webOS positive spin at least inside HP. Two or tree million users in webOS tranches would mean something, maybe not in global market, but it would be good start point for ecosystem to build.
    I never took seriously pre-launch statements about no2 in tablet market, but also don't understand why HP stated something like that in first place.
    But, I'm skeptical about HP reaching this estimated numbers. Lots of people here are nervously waiting next update to decide wuld they return TP or not. I can't sense really positive climate.
  11. #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Why not? Its displayed alongside with other tabs, priced similar, looks similar, do similar basic things. Why can't they be compared? It's not like it's a totally new market hp is creating.

    I don't think HP is trying to create a new market. I believe HP is going after a totally different market altogether. Most people think that tablets are toys based on the iPad's shortcomings. I think HP is trying to show them that a tablet can be used for work related issues. HP is going after the business end of the market. Since normal consumers outnumber business users by a large margin comparing Touchpad sales to iPad sales would not be advantageous.

    To give you a case in point, lets say you were an automaker who made police cruisers and I was one that strictly made consumer cars. Police cruisers are quite expensive to make and heavy because of the reinforcements to the frame. Police also make up say 1% of the market. Lets say that you have a commanding lead in the police cruiser market. You make 90% of the police cruisers on the road. Are you successful? I would think so because you have excelled in your targeted market. Now lets say someone decided to compare your vehicles sales to the sales of consumer vehicles that I produce at a similar price point. I sell tens of thousands more vehicles than you. Is your product a failure?

    You see how numbers need to be keep in context to mean anything? Keeping stuff in context rarely happens in the mobile electronics world.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    I don't think HP is trying to create a new market. I believe HP is going after a totally different market altogether. Most people think that tablets are toys based on the iPad's shortcomings. I think HP is trying to show them that a tablet can be used for work related issues. HP is going after the business end of the market. Since normal consumers outnumber business users by a large margin comparing Touchpad sales to iPad sales would not be advantageous.

    To give you a case in point, lets say you were an automaker who made police cruisers and I was one that strictly made consumer cars. Police cruisers are quite expensive to make and heavy because of the reinforcements to the frame. Police also make up say 1% of the market. Lets say that you have a commanding lead in the police cruiser market. You make 90% of the police cruisers on the road. Are you successful? I would think so because you have excelled in your targeted market. Now lets say someone decided to compare your vehicles sales to the sales of consumer vehicles that I produce at a similar price point. I sell tens of thousands more vehicles than you. Is your product a failure?

    You see how numbers need to be keep in context to mean anything? Keeping stuff in context rarely happens in the mobile electronics world.
    Hehe, show me the numbers, then we can discuss.

    I understand your theory, but I dont think it holds, yeah, you can say hp is targeting business market, and sounds like you are saying bad sales, when occuring in business market, is not bad.

    I think hp just need sales, whichever market, whichever country. Just make more sales. Numbers promote ecosystem, its just that, it doesnt really matter which market the number is headed.

    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
  13. #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    Lots of people here are nervously waiting next update to decide wuld they return TP or not. I can't sense really positive climate.
    I don't think it's that dire for existing owners although I would seriously think about returning mine if document editing is not added. I would say that the update is holding up new buyers who are on the fence. I think the negative climate, especially in the forums, stems from the constant tiring battles with "other" tablet owners. Either way the quicker HP gets it out the better. Hopefully it calms the masses enough to add to sales quick enough to help the numbers before they are scrutinized by everyone looking to make some kind of point.
  14. #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    Hehe, show me the numbers, then we can discuss.

    I understand your theory, but I dont think it holds, yeah, you can say hp is targeting business market, and sounds like you are saying bad sales, when occuring in business market, is not bad.

    I think hp just need sales, whichever market, whichever country. Just make more sales. Numbers promote ecosystem, its just that, it doesnt really matter which market the number is headed.

    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
    I don't know how that sounds like I'm saying bad sales, I'm just trying so desperately to keep this in context. HP marketed this to business. I agree that any sales will do. Money is money. Users are users. However I believe that we should use the targets that HP set for their investors as a guide instead of the arbitrary targets that I am almost certain that every tech reviewer and arm chair economist will try to use.
  15. #75  
    I'd say that if HP comes in third this year, behind Apple and Samsung, then they are doing pretty good. It takes a while for branding and popularity. Apple was lucky because they came out with a good product where there was no competition. The most important thing for HP now is Apps and squashing the bugs.
  16. #76  
    Wait, what do you mean they don't work as advertised. My Veer shares my touchpads calls quite nicely. I love never picking up my veer again once i get home. i haven't played with touch to share yet but really dont care about that. im happy it uses my phone via bluetooth.
  17. #77  
    I think everyone will be surprised with how low the sales actually are.. sorry..
  18. #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by ogloco21 View Post
    I think everyone will be surprised with how low the sales actually are.. sorry..
    And this is based on ... What?
  19. #79  
    Probably not as low as the Xoom, but lower than Asus and Samsung. Thats my guess. WebOS is still a foreign word and OS. Once it becomes more understood I think it will be adopted quicker. I still think windows 7 mobile will die off.
  20. #80  
    The only reason I don't think Win Mobile will die off is because MS is digging deep into integration, so they will probably continue development of Win Mo along side Windows. Also front page has an article about some companies not giving up on Win Mo due to all the apple lawsuits.

    I don't think Win Mo will be a big player, but I don't think it's going anywhere any time soon. Especially with the hardcore windows/xbox folks, just as I will be hopefully finding an easy way to put WebOS on my desktops when they release the PC version.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
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