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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    We all know Asus Transformer is doing well in sales right now. HOw many did it sell or pre-sell in it's first three weeks of sales? That would be the more appropriate figure to compare the HP sales to.
    I don't see how that works, there is no 3 weeks sales figure from HP, right?

    Lets just look for the shipments for next two quarters.
  2. #42  
    when transformer came out in us... reports said amazon ran out of stock in minutes. and most reports say they had been having supply shortages since. they're running 400,000 a month now too right? that's the kind of news you want to hear with touchpad and hp i believe is trying to make 400,00 touchpads a month right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    We all know Asus Transformer is doing well in sales right now. HOw many did it sell or pre-sell in it's first three weeks of sales? That would be the more appropriate figure to compare the HP sales to.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    when transformer came out in us... reports said amazon ran out of stock in minutes. and most reports say they had been having supply shortages since. they're running 400,000 a month now too right? that's the kind of news you want to hear with touchpad and hp i believe is trying to make 400,00 touchpads a month right?
    Keep in mind that everyone counts sales differently. HP sells their product to retailers who then resell it. For HP, the sale counts the moment it leaves their possession so a sales report of, for example, 500,000 means HP has shipped that many to retailers (and the few HP.com buyers). Apple, on the other hand, controls the retail so they can only count a sale once it is in a consumer's hand.

    Of course, that means if Apple is counting iPad sales the same way HP is, then Apple is purpotrating a fraud since their largest buyer would be themselves. You have to look closer into the sales report to see how each company counts a sale.
    kjb86 likes this.
  4. #44  
    Understood. I think there are articles right now questioning android sales because they are counting how many go to the stores but they are nor sold... Just sitting on the shelves.

    The thing with iPad is that as of last week said now able to fill orders within 3-5 days for iPad? That would mean that iPads are getting to customers as soon as they are made.

    I know for me I had to wait 6 weeks and it was shipped from china to me directly. And checking stores, they still tell ya they pretty much are gone after they get them.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    Keep in mind that everyone counts sales differently. HP sells their product to retailers who then resell it.
    that's fine, the stores surely won't buy more if the old ones just sit on the shelves forever.

    Better than no number at all.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by Spade View Post
    They lowered the price of the touchpad already as well as other outlets cutting price. I'd say that tells you what you need to know

    Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
    More incorrect information. HP still has the same suggested price. Discount shops discount, that's what they do.
    Rnp likes this.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    More incorrect information. HP still has the same suggested price. Discount shops discount, that's what they do.
    Keep in mind that retailers like Amazon buy in bulk for the express purpose of discounting. They can't do that with Apple products because of Apple's dictatorial control of the sales channel. But HP has no problem offering Amazon a slight discount if they plan on buying 100,000 at one time. That allows Amazon to turn around and offer a better price than a company that only bought 10,000.
    hparsons and Rnp like this.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    btw, not sure how you come with that statement... still rocking the 3gs and it's over a couple of years old. ios5 is coming out this fall and the 3gs is going to be supported and from reports i have heard performance has not been affected and may have been improved.

    been happy with the 2g for as long as they could have supported it and the 3g was supported i think for a couple of years. my daughter is still using her 2g and installing new apps on it. so pre and pixi owners have fared better?
    No we haven't. Pre and Pixi are still on version 1.4.5 on software and probably won't see an update. If you read the entire post you would see that I mentioned Apple as one of the very few companies to provide good support after the sale. All the products you listed were Apple products so that kind of proves my point.

    I'm getting the feeling that HP is all about good support for mobile devices just like Apple is. Can't say that is true for everyone else I've dealt with.
  9. #49  
    well, i have hp servers in my workplace and was happy to stick with them a few years ago when we upgraded to g5s... they have shown me they will provide updates often. and received top notch support. of course enterprise is big for them but if they can be as committed with webos then should be ok.

    Quote Originally Posted by k4ever View Post
    No we haven't. Pre and Pixi are still on version 1.4.5 on software and probably won't see an update. If you read the entire post you would see that I mentioned Apple as one of the very few companies to provide good support after the sale. All the products you listed were Apple products so that kind of proves my point.

    I'm getting the feeling that HP is all about good support for mobile devices just like Apple is. Can't say that is true for everyone else I've dealt with.
    Last edited by donm527; 07/24/2011 at 04:23 PM.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    Keep in mind that retailers like Amazon buy in bulk for the express purpose of discounting. They can't do that with Apple products because of Apple's dictatorial control of the sales channel. But HP has no problem offering Amazon a slight discount if they plan on buying 100,000 at one time. That allows Amazon to turn around and offer a better price than a company that only bought 10,000.
    does Amazon really buy big numbers like that? I don't know amazon's business model, I thought they only keep smaller number of items in stock?
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    does Amazon really buy big numbers like that? I don't know amazon's business model, I thought they only keep smaller number of items in stock?
    I'm not 100% sure, but Amazon seems to be online "big box" store. Big box stores make money on volume rather than on higher margins. So, Amazon would make more money by buying a large amount of products and selling them at a small profit than by buying a product and selling it at a higher margin.

    As to whether they do that or not, I'm not sure. I just always thought that's how they ran their business.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    I'm not 100% sure, but Amazon seems to be online "big box" store. Big box stores make money on volume rather than on higher margins. So, Amazon would make more money by buying a large amount of products and selling them at a small profit than by buying a product and selling it at a higher margin.

    As to whether they do that or not, I'm not sure. I just always thought that's how they ran their business.
    Actually big box stores make money based on add-ons. Which is the same way Amazon makes money, not saying you are incorrect, you just are looking at the wrong attribute of how Amazon is an "online big box store". Big box stores operate on loss-leaders, for example selling DVD's at cost or at a loss to get people in the door, the majority of those folks then by other items. This is like how amazon shows you other things to purchase (or items purchased by others) with every item you look at.

    Then you have manufacturer/carrier incentives, like selling the Veer for a penny and making more money than BB can because Amazon does not have to maintain a brick and mortar and hourly employees just to sell and activate the phones.

    I spent a lot of my life in retail.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Actually big box stores make money based on add-ons. Which is the same way Amazon makes money, not saying you are incorrect, you just are looking at the wrong attribute of how Amazon is an "online big box store". Big box stores operate on loss-leaders, for example selling DVD's at cost or at a loss to get people in the door, the majority of those folks then by other items. This is like how amazon shows you other things to purchase (or items purchased by others) with every item you look at.

    Then you have manufacturer/carrier incentives, like selling the Veer for a penny and making more money than BB can because Amazon does not have to maintain a brick and mortar and hourly employees just to sell and activate the phones.

    I spent a lot of my life in retail.
    Amazon still takes advantage of its buying power to get better wholesale prices. After all, if it isn't on Amazon, it isn't on sale. That in turn gives them more flexibility on the loss-leader.

    To be honest, I'm surprised Apple isn't just killing the competition by selling their tablet AT COST (~$320). With the App Store and iTunes, Apple makes most of its profit on the back end. I'm not sure what HP's take is on each app sold, but they seem to be letting third parties handle the music and ebook sales.

    HP has less flixibility since they don't make a lot on the apps and music sales. If Apple wants to put everyone under, they could lower their tablet to a price that makes it the ONLY option. Sure, it may bring on the FTC for monopolistic practices since Apple does control everything....
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    when transformer came out in us... reports said amazon ran out of stock in minutes. and most reports say they had been having supply shortages since. they're running 400,000 a month now too right? that's the kind of news you want to hear with touchpad and hp i believe is trying to make 400,00 touchpads a month right?
    We don't know how many Transformers were supplied to stores during those weeks either. It was mentioned that stock was low. I doubt the Touchpad will do 400,000 a month. It's too new. It will pick up, but not right off the bat.
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    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I heard hp is to have a earning call on aug 16th.

    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
    After market 8/18:


    AUG 18
    HPQ to announce Q3 earnings After Market (Confirmed)

    AUG 18
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    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    Understood. I think there are articles right now questioning android sales because they are counting how many go to the stores but they are nor sold... Just sitting on the shelves.

    The thing with iPad is that as of last week said now able to fill orders within 3-5 days for iPad? That would mean that iPads are getting to customers as soon as they are made.

    I know for me I had to wait 6 weeks and it was shipped from china to me directly. And checking stores, they still tell ya they pretty much are gone after they get them.
    Now shipping in 1-3 business days according to Apple website.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by Weaser999 View Post
    We don't know how many Transformers were supplied to stores during those weeks either. It was mentioned that stock was low. I doubt the Touchpad will do 400,000 a month. It's too new. It will pick up, but not right off the bat.
    Asus's total sales on everything they sell is a fraction of what HP puts out in the PC market alone. HP has the ability to make more than Asus and probably Apple. Even with the iPad included, HP still sells more PCs than Apple does so HP is used to flooding the market.

    Retailers may have sold out of the ten Transformers they got but have a pallet of 100 TouchPads to sell. Even if they only sell 15% of their TouchPad inventory they have already sold 50% more TouchPads than Transformers. Since it is hard to say how much each retailer got, we cannot use "availibility" as a sales indicator.

    It will be a while before HP challenges Apple in the tablet market. But I have little doubt the TouchPad will leap ahead of the Android Tablets. People just aren't buying them in large enough numbers.
    Last edited by bobsentell; 07/24/2011 at 10:21 PM.
    kjb86 likes this.
  18. #58  
    I'm interested to know how much the manufacturer of an Android tablet makes after the sale. With Apple and now with HP, money is made on the initial sale of the device, services, and from a portion of every app sold. How does an Android hardware maker make money after the sale? Do they get a portion of the app sales? It seems like most of that money goes to Google (and the developer).

    I think HP was smart to take the Apple route, control the hardware and software and make money more than one way. I think they can afford to break even on the sale of the device as long as owners are buying apps and services.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    sales figure numbers... i imagine they will have a comment on their conference call when they announce earnings. someone definitely will ask and they will have to give a decent answer. any sidestepping would be considered negative.
    I looked back over their last call. I don't think they will give unit numbers at all. The last call they gave a % of profit rise or decline by group. So like PC profits fell this %, Imaging and printing fell this perceantage, Financials services grew this percentage.

    Now the thing is i'd be my house if i had one that because there is no way to measure growth in touchpad sales since they didn't sell them last quarter they'll get asked about sales numbers during the question part. The veer numbers too. I'd also bet that they will not give a straight answer on sales numbers. That said they have talked about webos a lot, pc sales are down, it's thought that ipads are a big cause of declines of pc sales and the touchpad is supposed to help stem the losses, so i can't see them not getting a question about actual unit sales of touchpads and veers. The other thing is i think Apple and Rim both give raw numbers and if that is the norm they may be expected to give numbers. Not saying they will but they may be expected to. They could also give the number shipped and try to pass that off as sold in hopes nobody makes a distinction. But i doubt investors would fall for that.

    Either way, nobody with something to prove to the market, especially after a bad prior quarter, has good numbers and doesn't scream them from the rafters. Google is the first to tell you how many android devices get activated every day or week or whatever. They got something to prove to the apple's and blackberry's of the world and they are shouting look out how good were doing. If HP is doing good, we'll hear about it.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 07/25/2011 at 01:39 AM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by bobsentell View Post
    Asus's total sales on everything they sell is a fraction of what HP puts out in the PC market alone. HP has the ability to make more than Asus and probably Apple. Even with the iPad included, HP still sells more PCs than Apple does so HP is used to flooding the market.

    Retailers may have sold out of the ten Transformers they got but have a pallet of 100 TouchPads to sell. Even if they only sell 15% of their TouchPad inventory they have already sold 50% more TouchPads than Transformers. Since it is hard to say how much each retailer got, we cannot use "availibility" as a sales indicator.

    It will be a while before HP challenges Apple in the tablet market. But I have little doubt the TouchPad will leap ahead of the Android Tablets. People just aren't buying them in large enough numbers.
    I heard this exact happy talk before the launch of touchpad.

    HP is planning 3milliln sales by the end of the year. If they achieve that, that's still not enough to knock of android from #2. If they can't even achieve that, there will be more questions than marketing strategy.

    Wait for several months, shall we? Speculations will not clarify thie original question one bit.
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