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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    $400 is a very competitive price. The cost to make the piece of hardware costed $306 but the problem is that advertising costs millions of dollars more than you think it does and the money that goes into making the software is another few million dollars. They would be selling it at a loss if it were $350. What they could have and should have done is sell the 32GB version for $50 more than the 16B version. Everyone, and I mean everyone, would spend an extra $50. That means they would be making much more overall.
    I don't know about you but I am getting my 32GB for $50 more than the 16GB one. And that's BEFORE I send in for the $50 "make it right" rebate.
    Rennat likes this.
  2. #22  
    I'm sure this has been said, but to be honest, I'm too lazy to read the walls of text to make sure...

    The idea of comparing the BOM (Bill of Materials) to sale price, is ridiculous. HP probably is already selling these at a loss. You have to look at the loaded costs. They have had a team of folks (think salaries, benefits, etc.) working on the hardware, the software, marketing, developer conferences, travel, QA, packaging, etc etc. Many of those items are capitalized and will be depreciated over the next several years (starting from launch day). All of those things are part of the COGS (cost of goods sold). Just my .02 having worked for a hardware manufacturer in the past.
  3. gbp
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    #23  
    Yup,
    I guess HP will do that in three months, i.e. dropping the price. Besides HP f today is in a weaker position compared to Microsoft of PS2 era. During that time Sony was the king. However microsoft had enough cash to burn on XBOX. With HP, they are now down to one unit making more profit than others , the printing division. The rest of them don't make good margins.
  4. #24  
    Actually this post and some others that support or try and justify the original posters position are what's wrong in most of the world. Profits, who needs profits. Why would a publicly traded company look to make money at all? As for this TouchPad, I'm betting HP is making very little, if any, on each unit. But that's besides the point.

    We are in an entitlement society folks - everyone feels owed everything on their own terms. Look how many people are on welfare that drive a nice new SUV, have multiple flat screen TV's, cell phones with unlimited data plan, blah blah blah.

    Last, great counter posts in this thread that explains reality.
    jahjahlove likes this.
  5. #25  
    So what's the logic behind Msft going into the game console biz KNOWING they would be losing money on it for years?! Looks like Msft did well. And HP could do it... They may not be as strong... They have enough cash to take the hit... If u believe you can come out on top like Msft did

    Quote Originally Posted by Midway99 View Post
    Actually this post and some others that support or try and justify the original posters position are what's wrong in most of the world. Profits, who needs profits. Why would a publicly traded company look to make money at all? As for this TouchPad, I'm betting HP is making very little, if any, on each unit. But that's besides the point.

    We are in an entitlement society folks - everyone feels owed everything on their own terms. Look how many people are on welfare that drive a nice new SUV, have multiple flat screen TV's, cell phones with unlimited data plan, blah blah blah.

    Last, great counter posts in this thread that explains reality.
  6. #26  
    There's a really great quote that I think is applicable here.

    At the critical juncture in the late ’80s, when they should have gone for market share, they went for profits.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    So what's the logic behind Msft going into the game console biz KNOWING they would be losing money on it for years?! Looks like Msft did well. And HP could do it... They may not be as strong... They have enough cash to take the hit... If u believe you can come out on top like Msft did
    But how do you know they are not taking a hit already. You've forgotten about the deal they have with box.net... 50gb, for life, for each touchpad sold. Maybe it won't be the case for the touchpad 2, but for now i see it as a bit hit taken by HP.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    im almost 100 percent sure the 16GB touchpad is sold for a loss once you consider the other costs associated with delivering a product.
    For now, HP is in loss with all webOS devices. Palm acquisition at 1,2 billion, than one year of Palm's integration into HP mobile division accompanied with parallel development and production of TP/Veer/Pre3 followed with standard expenses related to product launch must be calculated into price of new models. I bet calculated price with realistic volume expectations would be at least ten times higher than today's $499 for 16GB model.
  9. #29  
    Did you read that first link I posted?

    Msft lost over 4 BILLION in first years!

    But their thought was they they HAD to get a piece of the market. There was no getting out. Or at least they were able to take all those years before they turned the corner.

    Webos on every machine they said? Are they as determined or believe in the tablet/mobile space like bill did with xbox? Does leo have the balls or all talk? (even though so far his talk has been cheap) Sony seemed unbeatable too at one time.

    Quote Originally Posted by jahjahlove View Post
    But how do you know they are not taking a hit already. You've forgotten about the deal they have with box.net... 50gb, for life, for each touchpad sold. Maybe it won't be the case for the touchpad 2, but for now i see it as a bit hit taken by HP.
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    #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    HP TouchPad Costs an Estimated $318 to Make | News |webOSroundup



    Here's the kicker: the more of these HP sells (and thus orders from the factory) the less they'll each cost.

    Sure they wouldn't make a huge profit on the devices, but they also wouldn't lose money. And what will determine the success/failure of WebOS? The number of people using it.

    Android started out with tons of cheap phones, and now they're selling more than Apple.
    u must be some communist, thinking profits are bad. by the way im pretty sure they didnt factor in dev costs and shipping.... go live in cuba if u feel profits are a bad thing and keep driving those reliable 50's chevies -=)
    Want to help design and write an app?
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  11. #31  
    Also I am only talking 1st gen touchpad... Reviewers have referred to it more like ipad1 anyways... Sell it cheaper to get more people into webos and spread the word? One year at max... Hopefully gen2 doesn't take forever. You build the gen2 up to spec with the competition, then you charge more.

    At the very least they should have included the touchstone. Geez.

    Quote Originally Posted by jahjahlove View Post
    But how do you know they are not taking a hit already. You've forgotten about the deal they have with box.net... 50gb, for life, for each touchpad sold. Maybe it won't be the case for the touchpad 2, but for now i see it as a bit hit taken by HP.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post


    From: Léo Apotheker
    Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011
    To: Bradley, Todd; Lesjack, Cathie; and eight others
    Subject: Second Half Fiscal 11

    As we discussed at the EC [Executive Council] meeting Q3 is going to be another tough quarter. One in which we will be driving hard for revenue AND profit; we have absolutely no room for profitless revenue or any discretionary expenditures.

    Right. That's what makes their handling of the TouchPad so bizarre. They're probably not going to be generating much revenue OR claiming much marketshare with the current pricing.
  13. #33  
    So my thought to solve all of HP's problems with the launch and really take the world by storm with WebOS is:
    1. HPalm gives the Touchpad away for free
    2. HPalm then pays each customer a $100 "spiff" for the inconvenience they face for not being on the Apple platform
    3. HPalm's goal is to make it up on volume by trying to sell a whole bunch of apps
    4. Leo and the Board then realize that the apps are being developed by others, so HPalm doesn't get much margin from them.
    5. Not making any money on the what might have been a profitable product means that HPalm cannot ever recover the investment it made in Palm
    6. People (individuals, pension funds - hey, your money) all quickly realize that decisions #1 and #2 are so supremely stupid that they don't want to have anything to do with the company. They sell their HP stock and the price plunges - Greece for Geeks.
    7. HP shuts down the misbegotten Palm business unit in an effort to turn itself around. As a result:
    Verizon never puts out update 2.1.
    A Pre3 is arrested for molesting an underage Touchpad, and Nancy Grace waxes indignant over its "Touch to Share" defense
    8. The final post in PreCentral wonders why any management team would waste money without any effort to make a profit. Everyone agrees, knowing that they would have been so much smarter. Somebody compares those stupid decisions to Pets.com and other failed dot.com businesses from 1999. Finally somebody does defend spending so much money you don't have as a good idea - tgeitner@treasury.gov
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by donm527 View Post
    Did you read that first link I posted?

    Msft lost over 4 BILLION in first years!

    But their thought was they they HAD to get a piece of the market. There was no getting out. Or at least they were able to take all those years before they turned the corner.

    Webos on every machine they said? Are they as determined or believe in the tablet/mobile space like bill did with xbox? Does leo have the balls or all talk? (even though so far his talk has been cheap) Sony seemed unbeatable too at one time.
    i have counted at least 4 question marks regarding HP's future strategy vis a vis of webOS. So far, based on what most of their different leaders said was they are backing up the OS 100%. The only people who are doubting it are some reviewers of the touchpad. So far HP has voted with their wallet and they believe they can run and win the marathon, in the long run. They said nothing else thus far.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    HP TouchPad Costs an Estimated $318 to Make | News |webOSroundup



    Here's the kicker: the more of these HP sells (and thus orders from the factory) the less they'll each cost.

    Sure they wouldn't make a huge profit on the devices, but they also wouldn't lose money. And what will determine the success/failure of WebOS? The number of people using it.

    Android started out with tons of cheap phones, and now they're selling more than Apple.
    Here's the real kicker: Your economics is fuzzy.
    jahjahlove likes this.
  16.    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The problem with your strategy is that console games cost $35 to $50 each while tablet games cost $2-$10 each. You simply can't sell smartphone or tablet hardware at a loss and make it up with app revenue.
    Right, but HP won't make money (or much) on the apps. Instead they should make money on cloud services that are amde to work with WebOS. Of course those cloud services only make them money if they have a lot of webos users.
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    #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    HP TouchPad Costs an Estimated $318 to Make | News |webOSroundup



    Here's the kicker: the more of these HP sells (and thus orders from the factory) the less they'll each cost.

    Sure they wouldn't make a huge profit on the devices, but they also wouldn't lose money. And what will determine the success/failure of WebOS? The number of people using it.

    Android started out with tons of cheap phones, and now they're selling more than Apple.
    What? LOL! Android did NOT start out with tons of cheap phones. It started with ONE phone on ONE carrier and it wasn't cheap. It wasn't a good phone or even good software at first. It took a year or so before it became an attractive enough platform for other mfgs to even entertain the thought of using it. Only now has it gotten to the point where the cheap mfgs are starting to look at it to churn out lower cost phones.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    What? LOL! Android did NOT start out with tons of cheap phones. It started with ONE phone on ONE carrier and it wasn't cheap. It wasn't a good phone or even good software at first. It took a year or so before it became an attractive enough platform for other mfgs to even entertain the thought of using it. Only now has it gotten to the point where the cheap mfgs are starting to look at it to churn out lower cost phones.
    Yes, but the iPhone was only in one carrier...


    ---------------------

    The Touchpad should be priced at $400, like the transformer, there's no way the average joe is going to pick a Touchpad over an iPad 2 at the same price.

    Sometimes playing aggressively is the only way. Asus did it and seems like it's paying off. HP is making money per device including R&D (not counting Palm's price) it's a really wide margin, specially on the 32 GB.

    Nevertheless, a 7" Opal tablet at =>400, same specs, better build quality (no glossy platic), and a fixed WebOS (i.e. better perfomance), would be great.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    I don't know about you but I am getting my 32GB for $50 more than the 16GB one. And that's BEFORE I send in for the $50 "make it right" rebate.
    !!!!!!! ***Amazed face

    What!? Where!? When!? How!?
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
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