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  1.    #1  
    Hi all,

    FYI. I'm not saying I agree, I just thought it merits a discussion.

    See link.

    take care,

    Jay

    5 missing features which restrict HP TouchPad's transformation into an iPad killer
    By Carl Bagh | July 6, 2011 9:34 AM EDT

    5 missing features which restrict HP TouchPad's transformation into an iPad killer - International Business Times

    HP TouchPad first showed its head in February but has arrived four months later and despite the differentiation it brings in the form of a new OS, the WebOS 3.0, the tablet seems a minnow in comparison to iPad 2 and Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  2. #2  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Hi all,

    FYI. I'm not saying I agree, I just thought it merits a discussion.

    See link.

    take care,

    Jay

    5 missing features which restrict HP TouchPad's transformation into an iPad killer
    By Carl Bagh | July 6, 2011 9:34 AM EDT

    5 missing features which restrict HP TouchPad's transformation into an iPad killer - International Business Times

    HP TouchPad first showed its head in February but has arrived four months later and despite the differentiation it brings in the form of a new OS, the WebOS 3.0, the tablet seems a minnow in comparison to iPad 2 and Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1.
    only pricing could be a factor
    clunkiness--somehow that wasn't a problem with iPad1
    processor-1 min boot time is fine
    rear camera--no thanks, I'm ok with the phone for right now
    apps-yes a problem, love homebrew though and the apps we have, we will do ok if the TouchPad takes off
  3. Ulairi's Avatar
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    #3  
    The rear camera complaint is reaching. The speed of the OS including boot time needs to, and I'm sure will improve. Apps also need to come.
  4. #4  
    None of these so called "features" are actually missing features.

    For instance, the CPU is not an issue here, it's a matter of optimizing webOS, if the comment from HP's Richard Kerris is to be believed.

    In fact, I'd say performance is the biggest gap here. If HP really can deliver a substantial OS performance boost, the iPad comparisons will begin to lose momentum.
  5. globex's Avatar
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    #5  
    Another review by a reviewer who clearly only read the specs sheet and didnt actually use the device. This isnt even worth discussion.
    Bell Pre since August 27 2009
    HP Touchpad since July 1 2011
    Development/Design contribution to:
  6. #6  
    The TouchPad is fat and heavy making it awkward to use in comparison to other tablets.
    The TouchPad is missing a rear camera which is commonly used to copy documents without a scanner, not that it has a camera app anyway.
    The TouchPad's processor, while spec'd well, delivers real world performance which leaves a lot to be desired in regard to benchmarks and boot speed so far, though missing graphics acceleration probably has a lot to do with lag and poor performance.
    The TouchPad doesn't have a competitive application lineup.
    The TouchPad is as expensive as the other premier tablets, yet falls far short in regard to specifications, and the TouchPad accessories have extremely high prices on them.

    The article is accurate at detailing some of the TouchPad's current drawbacks, but it doesn't list the advantages over the iPad and competitors, either.
    laoh likes this.
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    The TouchPad is fat and heavy making it awkward to use in comparison to other tablets.
    The TouchPad is missing a rear camera which is commonly used to copy documents without a scanner, not that it has a camera app anyway.
    The TouchPad's processor, while spec'd well, delivers real world performance which leaves a lot to be desired in regard to benchmarks and boot speed so far, though missing graphics acceleration probably has a lot to do with lag and poor performance.
    The TouchPad doesn't have a competitive application lineup.
    The TouchPad is as expensive as the other premier tablets, yet falls far short in regard to specifications, and the TouchPad accessories have extremely high prices on them.

    The article is accurate at detailing some of the TouchPad's current drawbacks, but it doesn't list the advantages over the iPad and competitors, either.
    • The Article Writer is fat and heavy making him/her awkward.
    • The Article Writer doesn't have a camera making it a pain to wait for them to have to get one when needed.
    • The Article Writer's cranial processor doesn't meet real-job performance requirements and missing acceleration probably has a lot to do with lag and poor performance.
    • The Article Writer doesn't have a competitive application lineup/resume.
    • The Article Writer is as expensive as other employees, but falls far short in regard to specs and performance.


    See? Those arguments can be pretty much pointed at anything.

    EDIT... c'mon people... this is meant only as a joke.. levity.. humor.. opposite of serious. Aimed at the article writer, not the poster here.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 07/07/2011 at 07:37 PM.
  8.    #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by HelloNNNewman View Post
    • The Article Writer is fat and heavy making him/her awkward.
    • The Article Writer doesn't have a camera making it a pain to wait for them to have to get one when needed.
    • The Article Writer's cranial processor doesn't meet real-job performance requirements and missing acceleration probably has a lot to do with lag and poor performance.
    • The Article Writer doesn't have a competitive application lineup/resume.
    • The Article Writer is as expensive as other employees, but falls far short in regard to specs and performance.


    See? Those arguments can be pretty much pointed at anything.
    Hi,

    Well said and high time it was pointed out! take care,

    jay
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 07/07/2011 at 07:38 PM.
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by Carioca_FL View Post
    None of these so called "features" are actually missing features.

    For instance, the CPU is not an issue here, it's a matter of optimizing webOS, if the comment from HP's Richard Kerris is to be believed.

    In fact, I'd say performance is the biggest gap here. If HP really can deliver a substantial OS performance boost, the iPad comparisons will begin to lose momentum.
    It's actually not a performance issue as you think it is. I work with some Apple fans (hardcore i-everything users) and did some direct side-by-side comparisons...

    Question: How often have you ever seen a "Loading" animation WITHIN a webOS app? The beautiful trick, and one that makes Jobs a genius is focusing on user "experience", but it's actually user perception. Here's why...

    One webOS we get the "launch card" before the app loads. The app icon pulses once every 97ms - 1.02s (effectively 1 second) and the large majority of webOS apps are loaded in 2 "pulses" (or two seconds) and you are ready to go.

    On iOS 4.x on iPad2, the FRAME for the app loads instantaneously BUT you are shown a "Loading" animation and then the UI elements load. In both cases the user could not DO anything for 2-3 seconds but on iOS things "seemed" faster. WebOS's apps load behind the launcher card but once the app is there, all UI elements are ready for use. iOS gives you the frame but until the "loading" animation goes away, there is just a white or black screen.

    In the end, 4 of the 5 iPad2 users were impressed with the TPad and webOS. The loved the stacks, and notifications and one said: "If any tablet can do it, this is the one".
    lukehale likes this.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    The article is accurate at detailing some of the TouchPad's current drawbacks, but it doesn't list the advantages over the iPad and competitors, either.
    The title of the article is "5 missing features which restrict HP TP's transformation into an iPad killer". Everything not listed should be assumed to be an advantage over iPad.

    Most of this list are arguably not neccessarily missing "required" features. However, when you price the device the same as an iPad2, but offer less content (no rear facing camera, regardless if you use it or not, the camera back there has value), less optimatization (depending on your tolerance and perception of lag), and less than cutting edge hardware (I know its the same size as an iPad1, if this was a year ago that would be fine, the bar has been raised).
  11. #11  
    interesting to see international business times are concerned more about back camera than business fearures.
  12. gbp
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    #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    The article is accurate at detailing some of the TouchPad's current drawbacks, but it doesn't list the advantages over the iPad and competitors, either.
    Actually its neither. The article is half cooked like original iPhone .

    Features describe what the device can do. Price is not a feature and so does the apps.
  13. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #13  
    Hopefully this review doesn't lead to me being called fat or slow

    Now, first to be honest, it should be "iPad contender" rather than killer. A tablet that produced gold bars would likely not "kill' the iPad and take its top share point for this particular year. Its too entrenched for something in 6 months to knock it off its pedestal. The goal would be to be an "iPad killer" in the sense of providing a significant, sizable number 2 option.

    With that in mind, I agree that the TouchPad is missing a number of things to be an "iPad killer" in tha tsense but I think the review is misguided in certain ways. Going down the numbers:

    1. Clunker Design

    With hopes that I'm not labeled as obese, dumb, or a weakling I agree with this one. But this is a legitimate issue keeping it from being an iPad killer in my mind. Aesthetics are a major part of marketting and however much enthusiests want to bash on marketting, it matters. Look for example the reaction to the original "creepy palm lady" Ad's and the "Droid Does" ad's. Whether correct or not, Tablets who do not have a similar appearance in tangible things...such as the girth of it...are going to have a harder time from a general public perspective as being seen as on par. To be a true "killer" you can't start out on first site as falling behind.

    Thinness sells. The Razr phone for the longest time was the greatest selling cell phone ever largely due to its amazingly thin profile. One of the big selling point of the iPhone4 was how thin it got. Every company seems to be aiming at some thinner phone be it the Xperia Arc or the Optimus Black.

    This doesn't just fit with phones either. Look at the movement in the television market going from CRT to Plasma to LCD to LED...all movements, in part, pushed by how much smaller they are. Same with monitors.

    Heck, lets even be fair here and look inwards. The notion suddenly that WebOS people think that size shoudln't factor into anything is a bit ridiculous.

    "The Veer '4G' is a good thing in a really small package"

    That was this sites tag line for the Veer review, immedietely on point one focusing on its SIZE. It goes onto talk about how nice it is to have a phone that the reviewer is fine to fit in his pocket. The Veer is only slightly smaller and lighter than the Pre and yet one phone he doesn't feel comfortable not in a holster and the other he's fine with in the pocket. Based on the comments of many on this site recently, this reviewer should be ridiculed and berated. Its only a slight difference! It should have no baring on how you use it!

    Lets time travel a bit, back to 2009 when the pixi came out. During which the reviewer felt it important to dwell on its size stating:

    "the Pixi is small, it's tiny, it's thin. Until you hold it in your hand it's difficult to get across, but ounce for ounce and inch for inch, I'm not sure I've ever seen as elegant and powerful a phone in a size this small."

    Immedietely following this he points out its 10% thinner than the iPhone at its thinnest point, directly comparing the size of a WebOS product to an iOS one suggesting it a benefit even though its a "small" increase. Same thing when the reviewer goes on about how nice its narrowness (Still talking size) was compared to the iPhone and the Droid...again, pushing a slight size difference as a benefit.

    Apparently, some members of PreCentral have turned 180 since the pixi and the Veer as well, now suggesting that size doesn't matter and anyone suggesting it should be mocked. I disagree, as does Samsung (who shrunk their tablet) and HP (who put out a phone focusing on its size), and think that while its not a make or break issue in and of itself it does damage its ability to be an "iphone killer".

    2. Camera:

    Again, another thing I do agree with here. And another thing where, is it necessary? No. But its immedietely identifiable on the competition and not on the HP, meaning its an immediete outward, first glance type thing that may turn a potential buyer off before they even get to WebOS. Now you can sit here and call them stupid, immature, or ignorant, but that kind of attitude is what helped generate the massive 2% market share we've had previously.

    The parts to add a camera, by all reports, are exceedingly cheap. You already had basic software created for a photo program and would need it anyways for the Pre3 on a smaller format. There's no good reason to leave this off during a cycle when almost every single solitary major tablet available has it.

    Do multiple things have cameras now? Absolutely. Yet I find myself using my worse iPad2 camera than my Pre camera at times simply because of the benefit of the bigger screen making it much easier and that way its already sitting there on my larger screen which I'd use to show said picture. I doubt I'm absolutely unique. But even if I was, there's no reason to think a camera would've significantly raised the price or been difficult to add...yet HP didn't and immedietely they now have a feature that on the spec sheets and just looking at the devices makes it look like it has "less bang for its buck". That's simply bad marketting and hurts it as a "killer"

    3. Processor

    And here is where I break from the review. Again, lets look at a marketting stand point first. For any of you that worked in retail in the late 90's when the computer boom was occuring and things were in 100's of Mhz rather than Ghz, you'll understand this quick. People are number driven, stats driven, very often when it comes to a first glimpse. The iPad, the Tab, etc are 1 Ghz and the TP is 1.2 Ghz. That instantly makes it seem, truthful or not, to the average consumer that the TP should be faster. So I have no issues on that front.

    Now, as to the practicality now that people have finally picked up the device and use it, I agree and disagree with this person. Yes, boot time should be faster. Yes, the slow down that many (I know some say they don't see it, but significant amounts say they do) see at times is problematic. However, I attribute those more to the OS than the processor so I disagree that the Processor is holding it back from being a killer.

    4. Apps

    This I disagree with, only because its insanely ridiculous and garauntee's by this reviewers standards that nothing will be a "killer" to the iPad. Apple has a year headstart and a huge name recognition to get a firm app lead...once again...that they're not likely to relinquish.

    Starting with 300 apps with the TP is great, and better than 2 of the 3 other Tablet OS's starting point. Its missing some "key" things like Netflix are problematic, but I don't think it strongly resists it in the short term.

    What would determine how things went with HP's ability with Apps is how well they got people adapting to their ecosystem and coding apps for them. Which then is where we step into the trouble...if the other issues with the TP keep it from being a large success then its not going to get a ton of App support and thus the excuse that its a new platform begins to wear thin. The TP desperately needs to be the #2 or at worse #3 best selling tablet to get significant developer support because Apple has #1 locked up for at least the next year and you have a host of Android tablets that essentially combine to make the market for those looking to Android apps.

    So the App issue isn't something I hold as a negative to HP now, but due to their other issues may inevitably be one.

    5. Pricing

    This is another one I psuedo-disagree on and feel is misguided. The pricing for the TouchPad is good from a marketing stand point of making your item feel like its "high end" by making people pay "high end" prices. The issue is however that many things, such as 1 and 2 above, are easily visiable to make it seem like its NOT high end. The whole notion of pricing yourself under what you want to present your item as falls away when your item itself makes it fall under that threshold.

    Had the TP been similar in size to the Tab and iPad2, had a rear camera, and seemed a bit "higher quality" in material (public perception is metal > plastic) and on top of that had the amazing OS on it and unique addons like TouchStone then the $499 wouldn't just be reasonable but downright perfect.

    However, because the TP's exterior and first glance setup is more reminiscent to the ipad1 than the ipad2 it would've been smarter to price it similarly. Saying that these issues weren't as big "with the ipad1" is ignoring that the ipad1 was the only significant contender on the market in this category at the time and was also a year ago. The standards a year ago in technology are almost never applicable a year later.

    I honestly think that the TouchPad could've taken the #2 spot if it had matched the outward specs of the two tablets that get the most talk right now...the iPad2 and the tab 10'1. Even if the back remained plastic, so be it, though perhaps a matte back like the Pre touchstone back which feels a bit more higher quality would've been a bette compromise. If it had done that I think it'd get many more people likely to put eyes on WebOS and I think, largely, the OS sells itself.

    If there weren't a large swatch of various issues I think the need to wait for an OS update on a NEW device to get it running smoothly would be easier to swallow and wouldn't matter as much if its out in the next month at least. I think the sales would've driven programmers and gotten apps on the platform.

    However, HP did the same mistake as Palm and made a device with behind the times outward specs and hardware design hoping to sell it singularly on its great operating system expecting people to pay this years premium prices for something that looks like last years models. Its likely going to run into similar issues as the Pre did as well due to it, being loved by its adopters and enthusiests but having issue strongly gaining market share and thus getting app attention.

    My hope is, rather than continuing to follow in Palm's footsteps, they actually attempt to match or beat the next market cycle with the TP2 and perhaps with the Opal even instead of continuing to be 1 cycle behind in regards to the outward appearance and build quality.
  14. #14  
    Personally, I find it reassuring that articles are carrying headlines that include "TouchPad" and "iPad." Whatever they say in the text (and I think a lot of the usual whining is b.s., most notably the battery life [it's just fine, thanks] and the "huge lag" [sorry folks, I ain't seeing much of that, which means this thing's gonna positively scream after the OTA updates and homebrew tweaks . . . and again, the performance is perfectly fine in the meantime], these headlines indicate that it's become a mainstream idea that there's rough parity between the TP and iPad. Except for the period before the Playbook was released, I haven't seen any other device get that kind of respect, even if it's backhanded respect. (And as we know, respect for the Playbook withered and died within hours of its release, something we haven't seen with the TP.) The David Pogue video discussed on these boards yesterday is a case in point. Pogue *loves* Apple products (with good reason), but the entire tone of that (very good, very funny) video reflects genuine admiration for the TP.

    Something tells me that the white 64 gig TP is going to, um, attract even more attention.

    I appreciate your other point re: the Veer, another device that was ridiculed as "fail" by many, even though it's a marvel of miniaturization. I have one, and I can tell you that the thing performs beautifully, in overall speed, multitasking, and battery life, and I can also tell you that anybody who actually *uses* the thing is blown away. I've had many more comments on/requests to try the Veer than I have had over 2 years using the Pre-. Combined with the TouchPad, it's really a genius device.
    Last edited by grappler; 07/07/2011 at 06:38 PM.
  15. #15  
    To everyone that says "somehow weight wasn't an issue for the original iPad but all the sudden it is for Touchpad"...

    1) Yes, ppl did complain about the weight but there was no other competition to compare against so it wasn't a huge issue.
    2) This is the middle of 2011, not 2010. Technology moves at light speed. Apple has set a new benchmark with Ipad2 and the bar has been raised and along with that the consumer expectations. Why is it so hard to accept this?
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulairi View Post
    The rear camera complaint is reaching.
    Not if you use video chat a lot. Its a great feature to be able to show the person you are chatting with what you are able to see at that time. I travel a lot for work. I FaceTime home every night to say goodnight to the kids. This feature really comes in handy
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordbane View Post
    and less than cutting edge hardware (I know its the same size as an iPad1, if this was a year ago that would be fine, the bar has been raised).
    See, this seems like a HUGE misconception. If the audio system they shoved in there is really as good as people claim, then I'd say that the TouchPad is actually pretty "slim" for what it's housing compared to other tablets.
  18. tostler's Avatar
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    #18  
    Zyphlin,

    Nice, thoughtful response to the article.
    Perception is reality (for the most part). I think reviewers default to comparing specs is because they don't know how to compare or convey their impressions on the real aspects that differentiate one device from another. It's easier to say "iPad is better because it weighs less." or "Galaxy tab is better because it boots faster."

    Is lighter better? Only if your measurement is arm or hand fatigue. How about boot time? It's only important if you reboot often. Then it's a concern. I don't know, are tech bloggers constrained by word count? That would explain why things like weight and reboot speed are not put into context (or the writer is lazy, or the editor is lazier, etc.) It's just too subjective, so most reviews are lazy and quote specs.

    I for one would like to see review criteria weighted. Such as:
    * Compare the availability of the 20 most common apps, not number of total apps.
    * Define "Ease of use" standards and use that to compare 5 or 6 common tasks, such as composing email, editing a spreadsheet, downloading content such as music or movies, etc.
    * How do the accessories enhance the experience?

    You get the idea. My blood pressure increases a few points whenever reviews talk about millimeters or fractions of millimeters of difference between devices.

    Rant off. Sigh.
    The Borg will trace their ancestry to the Treo180.


    Handspring Visor Deluxe, Treo 300, 600, 650, 700wx, 800w, HTC Touch Pro, Palm Pre, TouchPad 32GB.
  19. Hobbz's Avatar
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    #19  
    If I may point something out after reading it a couple times in this thread alone.

    The TPad is not competing against the iPad 1 or any other device no longer being manufactured. It's competing against devices currently being manufactured such as the iPad 2 and Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1. Yet, there are many references to products which are now only sold on the secondary market in the PC forums.

    A new car manufacturer doesn't have their vehicle performance compared to the 1910's Ford Model T. They are compared/contrasted against what's on the market now or to those products soon to be on the market.

    Could we please focus comparisons to devices on the current market and not to devices no longer being made?


    On a side note - I'm personally okay with the size, although it would be nice if the TPad had shed those extra 5 ounces. Hopefully the OTA update will correct the bugs and allow the 1.2 GHz processor to be blazing fast and stop the hiccups. Oh, and this article does have a valid point about the price.
  20. #20  
    TouchPad is as fat and heavy as the iPad, so it's gotta be just as magical, right?

    Ah but we can't compare a 2011 Lexus to a 1914 Ford, fair enough.
    How about comparing 2011 to 2010? One year already too much, huh? Ancient history.

    I like how much people are flogging the 'fat and heavy' horse because it means that they can't use anything else against the touchpad that can't be cleaned up in an OTA update.
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