Flash underrated?

[barkerja]

Originally Posted by blinktreo

I agree that Flash has its issues - which I mentioned in my previous post. But I disagree that this is why Apple decided not to support it. Flash lets you play a game, watch a movie, update a status ANYWHERE as long as you have a compliant browser.

This model does not make money for Apple. If you can get it without iTunes, Apple doesn't want you to have it, since they can't charge a toll. Simple.

I'd buy this theory if a developer didn't have the ability to sell applications through Apple's app store and make 100% of the profit. I'd also buy this theory if Apple wasn't going leaps and bounds to improve the web through things like its Nitro JavaScript engine and continuing to push the boundaries of the web by introducing new standards and implementations by way of CSS3, etc.

[nappy]

I'm simpler than you. I'd buy it if Apple hadn't forked off Konquerer, created WebKit, and open sourced the end result.

[lukehale]

Originally Posted by barkerja

I'd buy this theory if a developer didn't have the ability to sell applications through Apple's app store and make 100% of the profit. I'd also buy this theory if Apple wasn't going leaps and bounds to improve the web through things like its Nitro JavaScript engine and continuing to push the boundaries of the web by introducing new standards and implementations by way of CSS3, etc.

100% profit? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it is 70%. Still a great percentage, but a long way from 100%.

[barkerja]

Originally Posted by lukehale

100% profit? I don't think so. I'm pretty sure it is 70%. Still a great percentage, but a long way from 100%.

$0.99 apps are 100% profit to developers. Also, applications that are free with advertisements is 100% profit to developers.

[TheDewWorm]

Originally Posted by barkerja

But that's the thing. People with iPads aren't complaining about the lack of Flash due to sites content adapting. There's actually another thread here complaining about Youtube not falling back to HTML 5 (like it does on the iPad) when Flash is disabled on the device.

More often than not, HTML 5 outperforms Flash when playing video.

Have you not read the iPad Forums poll about users' biggest annoyance with the iPad? Lack of Flash support is a HUGE issue with a lot of iPad owners.

I really wanted to love my iPad, but became really frustrated with getting the message, "You need to update to the latest version of Flash...." It just didn't work for me, but I am happy for those who DO love their iPads and all things iOS.

There is plenty of room in our world for differing opinions and choices for mobile operating systems.

[TheDewWorm]

Originally Posted by mobileman

Golly, I hope this doesn't become HPs marketing motto. "Flash apps may not be the best, but it is good enough"

Half-truths or half-quoted statements are usually only useful for inflaming others. Surely that was not your intention!?!

[Rennat]

I love the flash on the TouchPad! I works so great. I really see no point of a Youtube app anymore.

[sinsin07]

Flash, no flash. That is the question.

At the end of the day, flashless tablets or flash enabled tablets need to sell to stay viable in the market.

The answer right now seems to be flashless sells:
Apple iPad now used for 1% of all browsing - leaving Android rivals in the dust
The iPad Passes 1% of All Browsing

It would appear that the flash point is moot, apparently people with iPads can browse the web just fine.

...snip
Doesn't sound much - until you compare it to the nearest competitors, which according to Netmarketshare (and matching the rough calculations of sales) are the Samsung Galaxy Tab, with 0.018%, the Motorola Xoom (we've reviewed it), with 0.012% and the PlayBook (yes, we've reviewed it) with 0.003%.

Or, in relative terms:
306: iPad
6: Galaxy Tab
4: Xoom
1: PlayBook.

In other words, for every thousand page views by a tablet, 965 would come from an iPad, 19 from a Galaxy Tab, 12 from a Xoom and 3 from a PlayBook. (In market share terms, that would show up as Android having a 3% share.)

[mosdl]

Those stats are US only usually btw, hard to trust them.

Also I bet people change their useragents to iPads on other tablets to get no "unsupported browser" errors.

[cobrakon]

Originally Posted by sinsin07

Flash, no flash. That is the question.

At the end of the day, flashless tablets or flash enabled tablets need to sell to stay viable in the market.

The answer right now seems to be flashless sells:
Apple iPad now used for 1% of all browsing - leaving Android rivals in the dust
The iPad Passes 1% of All Browsing

It would appear that the flash point is moot, apparently people with iPads can browse the web fine.

Sure, they are leading using 1% of the 60% or so of internet they can see. They are leading 0% of the 40% of the internet they CAN'T see.

That's like trying to get national sales figures from Frye's electronics versus BestBuy. Frye's is not available in every state, and is like iPad, whereas Bestbuy is everywhere and is like HP, Android, and RIM. ;-)

[sinsin07]

Originally Posted by cobrakon

Sure, they are leading using 1% of the 60% or so of internet they can see. They are leading 0% of the 40% of the internet they CAN'T see.

That's like trying to get national sales figures from Frye's electronics versus BestBuy. Frye's is not available in every state, and is like iPad, whereas Bestbuy is everywhere and is like HP, Android, and RIM. ;-)

Stupid analogy, but lets go with it.
So using your analogy, iPad is not available in every state. HP, Android and Rim are. How do explain the fact that iPad, not being available everywhere (flash wise), browsing percentage without flash out paces the flash enabled devices by a significant margin? (We will excuse HP from this as they just came out with a flash tablet.)

People are buying the iPad, people are using the web, without flash. And concerning your 60% 40% percent, do you have any links for that, or was it just from the top of your head?

[sinsin07]

Originally Posted by mosdl

Those stats are US only usually btw, hard to trust them.

Also I bet people change their useragents to iPads on other tablets to get no "unsupported browser" errors.

BTW, it's a good thing you qualified your statement with the word usually.
The other part is your comment is pure assumption and not relevant.

The iPad Passes 1% of All Browsing

The iPad Passes 1% of All Browsing
The iPad now exceeds 1% of all browsing on the internet, and over 2.1% in the United States.

Flash is important to some, not important to all, and not important to the best selling tablet on the market going on two years running. Number of sales speaks volumes in regard to what people want. If flash was that big a handicap, iPad would not be the best selling tablet, and not just the best selling, the best selling by a long shot.

Still not going stop me from buying the 7 inch Touchpad, I just wish they'd hurry up with that thing, I'm growing impatient with all the good Touchpad comments.

[louisoneal]

Uhhh.....after reading most of this thread my head hurts.

So what was the conclusion in the end regarding Flash? :-)

j/k no need to answer. I'm going back to watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force on Adult Swim from my TouchPad, I think it's a Flash site :-)

[sinsin07]

Originally Posted by louisoneal

Uhhh.....after reading most of this thread my head hurts.

So what was the conclusion in the end regarding Flash? :-)

j/k no need to answer. I'm going back to watching Aqua Teen Hunger Force on Adult Swim from my TouchPad, I think it's a Flash site :-)

LOL, that's the best option!

[Rennat]

sinsin07, those marketing linguistics are not viable at all as the iPad sells for its brand, features, and social adoption. The iPad doesn't sell because of what it does not have. All what you proved is that the Apple marketing machine is bigger than flash. You did not prove your point by providing unsupportive statistics.

Back to the thread, I believe that a big reason why flash is harped so much on the reviews of anything is because it just does not preform on mobile devices as well as it is supposed to Kn the traditional PC. But of course this until now because I can tell you for a fact that flash runs as well on my TouchPad as my iMac. I find Youtube to be the exact same experience on my TouchPad than that of the desktop. The frame rate only suffers when trying to play an online game which really does even matter.. If flash was like this on every mobile device then it would be a much better bullet point in reviews.

[mosdl]

Originally Posted by sinsin07

BTW, it's a good thing you qualified your statement with the word usually.
The other part is your comment is pure assumption and not relevant.

The iPad Passes 1% of All Browsing

The iPad Passes 1% of All Browsing
The iPad now exceeds 1% of all browsing on the internet, and over 2.1% in the United States.

Do they list all the sites that are monitored? Are any chinese sites monitored? Are those sites good enough of an indicator of the internet's traffic? Or perhaps those sites are the more common sites out there (the big ones) and the data is then skewed? And do they update the UA agents of browsers as they get upgrades?

Every one of those services have large deviations between themselves, so you can't trust that data. Not saying the iPad isn't popular, but you simply can't trust those sources.

Perhaps the high traffic is ipad users reloading flash websites that aren't working for them, hoping they do?

[lukehale]

Realistically though people are not buying th iPad specifically because they are thinking to themselves "who needs flash? I would rather not have it on my device". Honestly most of them probably don't even know that is an issue that would ever come up until they start using their new iPad. Lucky for them "there's an App for that".

The comparison for consumers hasn't been "Flash or iPad?" It has been clustercuss of Android tablets to pick from vs iPad vs (cringe)Playbook. I don't personally care much for Android or iOS, but of those choices I would choose the iPad too. I'm just glad I now finally got the choice of Touchpad, and don't regret it in the slightest.

I would probably choose iOS without flash over Android with flash, but I would choose webOS with OR without Flash over either. Lucky for me it does indeed have flash, and it work's great

[blinktreo]

Originally Posted by Rennat

sinsin07, those marketing linguistics are not viable at all as the iPad sells for its brand, features, and social adoption. The iPad doesn't sell because of what it does not have. All what you proved is that the Apple marketing machine is bigger than flash. You did not prove your point by providing unsupportive statistics.

Back to the thread, I believe that a big reason why flash is harped so much on the reviews of anything is because it just does not preform on mobile devices as well as it is supposed to Kn the traditional PC. But of course this until now because I can tell you for a fact that flash runs as well on my TouchPad as my iMac. I find Youtube to be the exact same experience on my TouchPad than that of the desktop. The frame rate only suffers when trying to play an online game which really does even matter.. If flash was like this on every mobile device then it would be a much better bullet point in reviews.

In talking to some of my programmer friends who deal with Flash, Silverlight and HTML5 every day, there's no question that Flash is a major hog. I'm amazed that Adobe + HP even managed to port it to a smaller form factor. I was completely prepared to get another admission from HP "well, we actually can't support Flash, after all".

However, hoggy as it is, it has a HUGE install base on the existing WWW. And while devs are slowly moving to HTML5 and more efficient renderers, there are still a bajillion sites that use it, and many commercial sites which are un-navigable without it.

In 5 years, Apple will no doubt seem vindicated that it never went down the Flash route. But that's in 5 years. Right now, iPad users sacrifice that 40% (or whatever the proportion is) of the web that is viewable only with Flash. And I agree with you that "the iPad sells for its brand, features, and social adoption".

"Hey, check this out! I got an _IPAD_!"
"Wow - awesome!.. hey go to xyz.com!"
"Okay. Hm. Plugin not supported? Wha?"
"Hey it's okay.. it's an IPADDD!! Do you have any fart apps? God, it's so small!"