Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 118
Like Tree45Likes
  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    And? Just because others adopt it, does not make it any less in the best interest of Apple to do so in providing it.

    After a quick search I came across this

    Apple's Relationship to Open Source
    Yeah, their interest is in providing the best experience to the end user. The only other decent rendering engine is Gecko which is used by Firefox.

    Open Source - Releases
  2. Smubeht's Avatar
    Posts
    187 Posts
    Global Posts
    189 Global Posts
    #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Yeah, their interest is in providing the best experience to the end user. The only other decent rendering engine is Gecko which is used by Firefox.

    Open Source - Releases
    Wrong! Their interest is to get others to adopt their ecosystem. They don't care about providing the best experience, but rather any experience that can be adopted by a mass of people.
  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by lukehale View Post
    True enough, but that still brings us back to the fact that Flash still has a pretty big performance advantage over HTML 5, at least for the time being. I am sure that will improve with time. Even so, there are stil quite a few things HTML 5 cannot do that flash can.
    True. But the same can be said about Flash. Every technology has its weaknesses.

    The fact is, that I've always made: Flash wasn't developed for the touch device in mind. Currently, it's a gap filler; it plugs holes for the minority that “need” it.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    Wrong! Their interest is to get others to adopt their ecosystem. They don't care about providing the best experience, but rather any experience that can be adopted by a mass of people.
    There's no "adopting an ecoysystem" by way of using webkit, that just doesn't make sense. And if you don't think the user experience is at the forefront of Apple's idealistic ways, then you know nothing about Apple.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mhunterjr View Post
    I didnt think the argument was ever that flash based apps could replace native ones such as those that you've stated. To my knowledge webOS doesnt even run flash "apps" The argument was that a majority of ios apps exist in app format because content providers had no other way of providing ios users their content. Webos can provide such content w/o an app.

    I dont need a cnn app, or a ny times app, or a comedy central app, or a hulu app, etc... There is a need for native apps, but not hundreds of thousands of them.
    This. ^^ iOS has an app for most sites, we have every site as an app! We WIN!

    Seriously though, why need and app for Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Bank Atlantic, etc. when you can go to the site you would use at home? Same goes for Google, Youtube, Hulu, any car manufacturer site, etc.

    As for games, iOS has apps for Nanaca Crash, Canabalt, etc, cause there's no other way for Apple users to access it. iOS doesn't help my kids access NickJr, Club Penguin, PBS Kids, etc.

    P.S. My flash experience has been flawless accessing eveything listed above and lots more. Movies from YouTube, Amazon, MegaVideo, etc. All things you miss on iOS.

    You can talk all the app you want 40% of something is nearly HALF! I'd like that other 40% of the internet despite what Jobsey says.
    blinktreo likes this.
  6. #86  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    This. ^^ iOS has an app for most sites, we have every site as an app! We WIN!

    Seriously though, why need and app for Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Bank Atlantic, etc. when you can go to the site you would use at home? Same goes for Google, Youtube, Hulu, any car manufacturer site, etc.

    As for games, iOS has apps for Nanaca Crash, Canabalt, etc, cause there's no other way for Apple users to access it. iOS doesn't help my kids access NickJr, Club Penguin, PBS Kids, etc.

    P.S. My flash experience has been flawless accessing eveything listed above and lots more. Movies from YouTube, Amazon, MegaVideo, etc. All things you miss on iOS.

    You can talk all the app you want 40% of something is nearly HALF! I'd like that other 40% of the internet despite what Jobsey says.
    Le sigh.

    I can access my banking accounts through Safari on the iPad if I so choose but I prefer not to. The experience delivered through the native application is superior to its web counterpart which is non-friendly to touch-driven devices.

    I'd say those that aren't forced into using a service's full-blown website and have the choice of using a service/application tailored specific to their device is winning.

    Meanwhile, you have things like this: http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touc...ard-flash.html
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Le sigh.

    I can access my banking accounts through Safari on the iPad if I so choose but I prefer not to. The experience delivered through the native application is superior to its web counterpart which is non-friendly to touch-driven devices.

    I'd say those that aren't forced into using a service's full-blown website and have the choice of using a service/application tailored specific to their device is winning.

    Meanwhile, you have things like this: http://forums.precentral.net/hp-touc...ard-flash.html
    Its no use. You will never get through to these people. However, they will be the first to download the native Club Penguin app when its released.
  8.    #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrakon View Post
    This. ^^ iOS has an app for most sites, we have every site as an app! We WIN!

    Seriously though, why need and app for Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Bank Atlantic, etc. when you can go to the site you would use at home? Same goes for Google, Youtube, Hulu, any car manufacturer site, etc.

    As for games, iOS has apps for Nanaca Crash, Canabalt, etc, cause there's no other way for Apple users to access it. iOS doesn't help my kids access NickJr, Club Penguin, PBS Kids, etc.

    P.S. My flash experience has been flawless accessing eveything listed above and lots more. Movies from YouTube, Amazon, MegaVideo, etc. All things you miss on iOS.

    You can talk all the app you want 40% of something is nearly HALF! I'd like that other 40% of the internet despite what Jobsey says.
    I think there is an important distinction that goes with your points. It's a tablet, not a phone. Realistically, as "retina" as the phones are getting these days, apps make more sense on that small of a screen, it's just easier. On a tablet though i think webOS going with the full web makes more sense, it works on a tablet. I think Apple was just too enamored with their Apps model, so why lose all that money by making the device truly web functional?

    I think for a tablet it's better to scale down to it from PC level, just like they did with phones. Why scale all the way down then back up to tablet size?
  9.    #89  
    With tablets being half-way, it should be a good mix, not just mostly App-driven like the iPad.
    IMHO
  10. #90  
    I will leave it like this, when Flash offers the same application experience that native apps currently do, I can consider replacing my native apps. However, at this time, for almost every application I own, the native app is far superior (or no Flash substitute exists).
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by lukehale View Post
    With tablets being half-way, it should be a good mix, not just mostly App-driven like the iPad.
    IMHO
    I partially agree with you, but don't think we're quite there yet. The thing with native applications is they make use of particular things that feel natural to tablet users; things like gestures for example. Also, the ability to upload and manage files, etc. While HTML has made strides recently, there's still a lot to be done.
  12.    #92  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I partially agree with you, but don't think we're quite there yet. The thing with native applications is they make use of particular things that feel natural to tablet users; things like gestures for example. Also, the ability to upload and manage files, etc. While HTML has made strides recently, there's still a lot to be done.
    Yea that's kinda where i wanted to go with that. It's part of the reason i am a big believer in tablets, i think they will be able to combine the two worlds perfectly, ths advantages of both smartphone app mindset and the power of the desktop like full web and screen real estate, all combined together into the perfect middle ground.

    Not meant to replace either, but a great addition.
  13. #93  
    The reason Apple did not include Flash support in iOS has to do with the performance of Flash and the numerous security vulnerabilities and crashes it experiences. Read this forum for examples of people telling others to disable Flash after they've experienced random crashes, which coincidentally occur when they have two tabs open with Flash in them. Apple has definitely made mistakes but combine those with the battery drain of Flash and the apps available, there are very few sites that are truly inaccessible and matter.

    As mobileman has been saying, native apps are superior to using the website because if done right, they're constructed around a touch based interface. Go ahead, mouse over the dropdown menu with a device that can only register touch inputs on the screen. Alternatively, you can use a native app that is developed to eliminate the dropdown menu altogether, providing more convenient touch based access.

    The fact that he's accused of rallying behind Apple and being against webOS is complete garbage. It's not his fault that iOS contains many more apps than webOS and because of that is able to make use of features that webOS cannot. It's not his fault for example that webOS does not support document editing or creation while iOS does. This has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with the fact that native apps are going to be more efficient on a touch screen device when done properly, always, than a website in a browser.

    Touch is a vastly different paradigm from the keyboard and mouse and therefore requires a unique approach. Simply making websites designed for a keyboard and mouse accessible to a touch screen device does not go far enough. It is a stop gap but one that should eventually disappear as content providers begin to optimize their websites for a touch experience.
  14.    #94  
    I'm really not completely in disagreement with you on a lot of what you are saying, but again you are falling into the same argument our friend mobileman is. You are taking my statements and treating them like absolutes, which they are not, none of them. All throughout this discussion I have been using the same type of words or phrases such as "many" or "for some people" or "at least for me" or some other variation to clarify I am not intending in the slightest to say Flash/browser is ALWAYS better than ALL apps or anything close to that. However I don't believe you can really prove your argument either
    Quote Originally Posted by Corpora View Post
    This has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with the fact that native apps are going to be more efficient on a touch screen device when done properly, always, than a website in a browser.
    I do appreciate you clarified "when done properly" but that still doesn't help with the "uninterupted web" idea that we have been discussing.
    I agree, Flash is flawed, and the web wasn't designed specifically with tablets in mind. Your comments seem to indirectly have the assumption that web features like drop down lists couldn't be redesigned in web coding and/or fixed in the browser. html can be changed just like anything else, so that specific point doesn't really hold much merit either.

    Like I said, I do agree with some of your ideas, but "Apps" aren't perfect either. They may work better independently, but they cannot claim the same seamless experience as having it directly in the browser. I'm all for having the best of both worlds, so what is the point of all this negativity against a (mostly) well functioning feature like flash on the Touchpad? If you don't like it, turn it off, that's your choice. But for me I enjoy it, and will continue to take advantage of this unique feature that iOS does not have.
    cobrakon likes this.
  15. gabe2gg's Avatar
    Posts
    150 Posts
    Global Posts
    165 Global Posts
    #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by Corpora View Post
    The reason Apple did not include Flash support in iOS has to do with the performance of Flash and the numerous security vulnerabilities and crashes it experiences. Read this forum for examples of people telling others to disable Flash after they've experienced random crashes, which coincidentally occur when they have two tabs open with Flash in them. Apple has definitely made mistakes but combine those with the battery drain of Flash and the apps available, there are very few sites that are truly inaccessible and matter.

    As mobileman has been saying, native apps are superior to using the website because if done right, they're constructed around a touch based interface. Go ahead, mouse over the dropdown menu with a device that can only register touch inputs on the screen. Alternatively, you can use a native app that is developed to eliminate the dropdown menu altogether, providing more convenient touch based access.

    The fact that he's accused of rallying behind Apple and being against webOS is complete garbage. It's not his fault that iOS contains many more apps than webOS and because of that is able to make use of features that webOS cannot. It's not his fault for example that webOS does not support document editing or creation while iOS does. This has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with the fact that native apps are going to be more efficient on a touch screen device when done properly, always, than a website in a browser.

    Touch is a vastly different paradigm from the keyboard and mouse and therefore requires a unique approach. Simply making websites designed for a keyboard and mouse accessible to a touch screen device does not go far enough. It is a stop gap but one that should eventually disappear as content providers begin to optimize their websites for a touch experience.
    This is a serious issue I have also with flash on mobile devices. Can anyone with a tablet who uses HBOgo/Maxgo tell me are you able to log in and scroll the movie lists properly?
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by lukehale View Post
    I do appreciate you clarified "when done properly" but that still doesn't help with the "uninterupted web" idea that we have been discussing.
    My question is, how can you throw around the “ uninterrupted web” claim when most Flash-based sites don't function properly with touch devices? The ability to view the Flash content doesn't necessarily make it any better than not having it altogether.

    For example: I've read reports that sites that are completely done in Flash aren't exactly accessible on the TouchPad; form fields that are written in Flash don't bring up the keyboard for example.
  17.    #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    My question is, how can you throw around the “ uninterrupted web” claim when most Flash-based sites don't function properly with touch devices? The ability to view the Flash content doesn't necessarily make it any better than not having it altogether.

    For example: I've read reports that sites that are completely done in Flash aren't exactly accessible on the TouchPad; form fields that are written in Flash don't bring up the keyboard for example.
    Fair enough. I agree with that, we aren't completely there. But I disagree that the lack of some specific functionalities "doesn't necessarily make it any better than not having it altogether." Even with it's issues, I would rather have it than not, because the things that work well, actually work well.
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post


    Meanwhile, Apple continues to be one of the biggest contributors to the “Web” and is assisting companies like Facebook make a larger presence on the web through its new upcoming mobile app.
    I can't tell if that's sarcasm..

    Apple wants to reshape the web in their image. At that point, the World Wide Web ceases to be a universally-accessible platform as envisioned by TBL - it becomes a cul-de-sac catering to the highest bidder.

    Frankly, they're not alone in this. The MPAA would be happy with a web that only delivers an experience through a tightly controlled toll road.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    True. But the same can be said about Flash. Every technology has its weaknesses.

    The fact is, that I've always made: Flash wasn't developed for the touch device in mind. Currently, it's a gap filler; it plugs holes for the minority that “need” it.
    Amen. Problem is, Flash was designed by Adobe for desktops - which have beefy processors and lots of memory. As a programmer, you code to the standard. As a business, you try to forecast who your likely customers will be.

    But, woops! now they're presented with all these small-form devices with limited memory and processing power. My own guess is that they never saw this coming.. Adobe just figured they could get away with a bloated codebase, and it would be ameliorated by Moore's Law.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Corpora View Post
    The reason Apple did not include Flash support in iOS has to do with the performance of Flash and the numerous security vulnerabilities and crashes it experiences. Read this forum for examples of people telling others to disable Flash after they've experienced random crashes, which coincidentally occur when they have two tabs open with Flash in them. Apple has definitely made mistakes but combine those with the battery drain of Flash and the apps available, there are very few sites that are truly inaccessible and matter.

    As mobileman has been saying, native apps are superior to using the website because if done right, they're constructed around a touch based interface. Go ahead, mouse over the dropdown menu with a device that can only register touch inputs on the screen. Alternatively, you can use a native app that is developed to eliminate the dropdown menu altogether, providing more convenient touch based access.

    The fact that he's accused of rallying behind Apple and being against webOS is complete garbage. It's not his fault that iOS contains many more apps than webOS and because of that is able to make use of features that webOS cannot. It's not his fault for example that webOS does not support document editing or creation while iOS does. This has nothing to do with Apple and everything to do with the fact that native apps are going to be more efficient on a touch screen device when done properly, always, than a website in a browser.

    Touch is a vastly different paradigm from the keyboard and mouse and therefore requires a unique approach. Simply making websites designed for a keyboard and mouse accessible to a touch screen device does not go far enough. It is a stop gap but one that should eventually disappear as content providers begin to optimize their websites for a touch experience.
    I agree that Flash has its issues - which I mentioned in my previous post. But I disagree that this is why Apple decided not to support it. Flash lets you play a game, watch a movie, update a status ANYWHERE as long as you have a compliant browser.

    This model does not make money for Apple. If you can get it without iTunes, Apple doesn't want you to have it, since they can't charge a toll. Simple.
    cobrakon likes this.
Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions