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  1. Smubeht's Avatar
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    #61  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Here's my question to you guys:

    Why are content providers like ABC, Hulu, Google, MLB, DirecTV, Comcast, NFL, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. choosing to develop native applications for devices instead of pushing for the "web"?

    It's not Apple doing this (they may have played a role in influencing), it's those creating these native applications and neglecting the idea of delivering the same experience through the browser.

    Hint: it's because they can't. yet.
    That is not how things work in business. When a company has such a stronghold, you follow suit and make things for them the way they want it. You don't fight against them, lest they banish you(Adobe). They make the apps because Apple refuses to allow them the option to provide web content through a site but force them to make an app if they want their user base to have access to their content. Simple as that.

    Oh and the items you listed, they might be better as Apps than as on a browser. I don't want to be baited into an argument of me saying that the web version of those are better. But there are other apps which is simply the content provided. A LOT of them. Certain apps provide higher levels of functionality than their web counterparts.
    aberndotnet likes this.
  2. #62  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    That is not how things work in business. When a company has such a stronghold, you follow suit and make things for them the way they want it. You don't fight against them, lest they banish you(Adobe). They make the apps because Apple refuses to allow them the option to provide web content through a site but force them to make an app if they want their user base to have access to their content. Simple as that.


    Meanwhile, Apple continues to be one of the biggest contributors to the “Web” and is assisting companies like Facebook make a larger presence on the web through its new upcoming mobile app.
  3. #63  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    This guy took 1 guys comments in here and took over the thread with banter.

    Flash Apps do not replace the need of ALL iPad apps.
    Flash Apps do replace the need of SOME iPad apps.

    The 100,000 iPad # after removing the non-native apps becomes a MUCH smaller #.

    Nobody is saying that there are no iPad apps that aren't better than a Flash counterpart, because one who have to be stupid to argue that. What people are saying is simple that there are a lot of apps created SOLELY for the reason that content is not accessible on the web due to restrictions in the form of flash.

    For the Touchpad we definitely want more native apps, but we don't need the big list of content apps that simply provide web content in a different form due to lack of flash. I think that is all anyone here is trying to say.

    Again, NO ONE is saying that FLASH apps replace the need for ANY or ALL native apps.
    Don't mind... It's like trying to move a wall with words.
    Newness Developments apps:

    Smubeht likes this.
  4. #64  
    Quote Originally Posted by lukehale View Post
    You really like ignoring the broader scope of this thread don't you? You keep going back to this "Flash kills Apps" we are are supposedly pushing, which we aren't. We are praising the merits of having good Flash support on the device, likd the desktop level browsing, and that in fact can make many apps obsolete, and others able to be lived without UNTIL they are released. No one is saying, other than the one comment you referred to earlier, that Flash makes all apps unneccesary. No reason to keep focusing on a nonexistant argument against you.
    How many times do I need to re-post the quote I was directly responding to (and for some reason you keep ignoring)? I was responding to the original post that claimed flash makes native apps unnecessary. Again, I never once said that Flash is unnecessary (though I find it mostly unnecessary).

    You should go back and re-read my posts since you seem to be having a very hard time with this.
  5. #65  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    ROFL!!

    So, does your mom or any other family member have a need for creating PP presentations? Apparently, if it's available on iOS and not on any competing platforms, then apparently yes - she needs one. (are there any Powerpoint apps on iOS?).

    I would like to remove considerations on whether anyone's mother is involved with the OS wars is a valid argument. That way lies ad hominems, which I'm a sucker for. I was just using it as an example.

    You haven't proved your point.

    Done with feeding the trolls.
    You would be surprised with what my mother can do (Go MOM!!!!!)
    blinktreo likes this.
  6. #66  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Here's my question to you guys:

    Why are content providers like ABC, Hulu, Google, MLB, DirecTV, Comcast, NFL, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. choosing to develop native applications for devices instead of pushing for the "web"?

    It's not Apple doing this (they may have played a role in influencing), it's those creating these native applications and neglecting the idea of delivering the same experience through the browser.

    Hint: it's because they can't. yet.
    It's all about apps, isn't it?
    Newness Developments apps:

  7.    #67  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    That is not how things work in business. When a company has such a stronghold, you follow suit and make things for them the way they want it. You don't fight against them, lest they banish you(Adobe). They make the apps because Apple refuses to allow them the option to provide web content through a site but force them to make an app if they want their user base to have access to their content. Simple as that.
    Which is why content providers should LOVE webOS-. No extra development (aka money spent) necessary. Isn't that how flash managed to gain it's ubiquity anyway? A standard environment to work across many platforms.
  8. #68  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    It's all about apps, isn't it?
    Rewind to 2007, who was pushing for mobile apps and who was pushing for native apps?
  9. Smubeht's Avatar
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    #69  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    How many times do I need to re-post the quote I was directly responding to (and for some reason you keep ignoring)? I was responding to the original post that claimed flash makes native apps unnecessary. Again, I never once said that Flash is unnecessary (though I find it mostly unnecessary).

    You should go back and re-read my posts since you seem to be having a very hard time with this.
    How many times do we need to re-post that none of the rest of us are saying that so stop arguing to the point of what one user wrote here, when the rest of us are not arguing that point. We will concede that point that not ALL apps are replaceable by flash. So now that that is out of the way are you going to stop arguing with the rest of us about whatever nonsense you are spewing as if the rest of us here are writing that same quote that you are directing all your arguments towards?
  10. #70  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Rewind to 2007, who was pushing for mobile apps and who was pushing for native apps?
    Well Jobs wasn't wrong on the idea, he was wrong with the development of that idea. But it always was a matter of iOS specific webapps, not mobile web, isn't it?
    Newness Developments apps:

  11. Smubeht's Avatar
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    #71  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post


    Meanwhile, Apple continues to be one of the biggest contributors to the “Web” and is assisting companies like Facebook make a larger presence on the web through its new upcoming mobile app.
    They contribute solely for profit. They are not an altruistic company and nobody expects them to be. They block things like flash because more money can be made if people make apps that grant access to content that is blocked. Competitors offer flash as a differentiator against Apple. That is all it is.
  12. #72  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    They contribute solely for profit. They are not an altruistic company and nobody expects them to be. They block things like flash because more money can be made if people make apps that grant access to content that is blocked. Competitors offer flash as a differentiator against Apple. That is all it is.
    The WebKit Open Source Project <- That's for profit?
  13.    #73  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    How many times do I need to re-post the quote I was directly responding to (and for some reason you keep ignoring)? I was responding to the original post that claimed flash makes native apps unnecessary. Again, I never once said that Flash is unnecessary (though I find it mostly unnecessary).

    You should go back and re-read my posts since you seem to be having a very hard time with this.
    I am done arguing with you, no point in trying to have an argument that isn't really even over the same thing. This bickering back and forth hasn't helped anyone. For that i apologize for my part in it.

    Back to constructive discussion!

    EDITED**

    To remove my somewhat argument feeding initial statement.
  14. Smubeht's Avatar
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    #74  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    The WebKit Open Source Project <- That's for profit?
    I bet in some form it is. They push for this as a standard, because they believe they will triumph if all are on the same level.
  15. mosdl's Avatar
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    #75  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Here's my question to you guys:

    Why are content providers like ABC, Hulu, Google, MLB, DirecTV, Comcast, NFL, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. choosing to develop native applications for devices instead of pushing for the "web"?

    It's not Apple doing this (they may have played a role in influencing), it's those creating these native applications and neglecting the idea of delivering the same experience through the browser.

    Hint: it's because they can't. yet.
    Because you can't do video in browsers without flash. Yes HTML5 has Video, but flash is the ubiquitous platform that every browser in use supports. So apps (often ports of their flash UI) were built.
    Apps: MyQ for Netflix (Phone/TouchPad), Giantbomb (Phone), Excavate (Reddit/Digg clients for TouchPad)
    Smubeht likes this.
  16. #76  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    I bet in some form it is. They push for this as a standard, because they believe they will triumph if all are on the same level.
    ... Dude. Do you realize who uses the WebKit rendering engine? Never mind the fact that the likes of Google Chrome and many other large browsers use the WebKit engine, but get this ... and this may blow your mind: webOS is based on WebKit.
  17. #77  
    Quote Originally Posted by Smubeht View Post
    The 100,000 iPad # after removing the non-native apps becomes a MUCH smaller #.
    Have you done any type of research to make a statement like this? I can tell you on my iPad, I have over 50 apps that I do not think can be replaced with Flash.

    Lets first eliminate all of the games, because I think we can all agree, Flash games are beyond awful.

    Then, we can move to any app that needs to access the onboard camera. I am a big photo nut. I have 12 different photo apps that do different things on my iPhone/iPad. None of them can be accomplished with Flash.

    Next lets move on to my business apps. My apps like WebEx (with video chat), Citrix, Excel, Word, PowerPoint, Keynote, OmniOutliner, OneNote Mobile, Things, Bento, FileMaker Pro, OCS Messenger app, can either not be done with Flash/Web or are done poorly.

    I have a bunch of astronomy apps. Not sure, but I highly doubt a comparable Flash version exists.

    Netflix and HBO2Go (Game of Thrones!!!) are my most used entertainment apps. Netflix is a silverlight app so Flash wont matter. I cant get the HBO website on my TouchPad to work nearly as well as the native iPad app.

    That's just some. The really only thing that I think a Web app can maybe replace on my iPad are the news apps. However, I kind of like having the notification tie in with these apps that a Web app can't duplicate.
  18. Smubeht's Avatar
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    #78  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    ... Dude. Do you realize who uses the WebKit rendering engine? Never mind the fact that the likes of Google Chrome and many other large browsers use the WebKit engine, but get this ... and this may blow your mind: webOS is based on WebKit.
    And? Just because others adopt it, does not make it any less in the best interest of Apple to do so in providing it.

    After a quick search I came across this

    Apple's Relationship to Open Source
  19. #79  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    Here's my question to you guys:

    Why are content providers like ABC, Hulu, Google, MLB, DirecTV, Comcast, NFL, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. choosing to develop native applications for devices instead of pushing for the "web"?

    It's not Apple doing this (they may have played a role in influencing), it's those creating these native applications and neglecting the idea of delivering the same experience through the browser.

    Hint: it's because they can't. yet.
    if content providers could deliver their content, without creating native apps, they would. They'd be able to cut out the middle man and reduce development costs.
    lukehale and Smubeht like this.
  20.    #80  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    ... Dude. Do you realize who uses the WebKit rendering engine? Never mind the fact that the likes of Google Chrome and many other large browsers use the WebKit engine, but get this ... and this may blow your mind: webOS is based on WebKit.
    True enough, but that still brings us back to the fact that Flash still has a pretty big performance advantage over HTML 5, at least for the time being. I am sure that will improve with time. Even so, there are stil quite a few things HTML 5 cannot do that flash can.
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