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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by timeweb2 View Post
    This has been my mantra forever - not just about Flash but overall - if the Web features are truly up to par and nearly everything works then there is zero need for apps!
    I rest my case.
  2.    #42  
    He did specifically state "if the web features are truly up to par". I think that changes the meaning a bit from how you might be reading it.

    Regardless, that isn't the point of the whole thread, my argument was not to say there is ZERO need for apps. The point of the thread is about whether or not flash functionality on the touchpad is underrated. I think it is, seems at least a handful agree. You do not, no big deal, not required, we can all coexist, just like iOS, Andriod, and webOS (and maybe even the Playbook, if we are feeling generous)
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    These comments usually come from individuals who use devices with little in the way of 3rd party apps.

    Show me a flashed based game that is as good as the best native games for iOS, Android, and WP7.

    Show me a flashed based IM or communicator app that can tap into the notifications system of every mobile device

    Show me a flashed based video editing app that is as good as iMovie, or Reeldirector

    Show me a flashed based Photo app that allows me to use all the onboard features of my phones camera

    I can sit here all day and do this. Flash doesn't replace anything but terrible games, battery killing video, and outdated websites.
    Well, you've done a good job of identifying Flash-based solutions that have been replaced by apps. And those solutions are all workarounds, imho, that leave a large part of the web untouched.

    Go to BoingBoing.net. It's a news aggregator, and they mix all sorts of stories into their blog. They also mix videos from YouTube, vimeo, hulu, network news like msnbc, cnn, fox, and even reason.tv.

    If you're on an iThing, you might see a video from Youtube you'd like to watch (but can't, in-line). So you try to find the link on Youtube with a different application, and hopefully find an HTML5 version. You've got a fairly high likelihood of success, after searching, because YouTube is trying hard to migrate its stuff onto HTML5.

    Of course the rest of the sources I described, Vimeo, Hulu, Network News, etc, you're SOL, unless they created a special viewer for you, in which case you're moved to another app to view the video.

    Another example is charts. Lots of interactive charts have been built with Flash or Flex. No option for you, unless there's an alternative that requires a special viewer.

    On my TouchPad, I see the link, I click it, and I'm looking at it. In this zero-day release of webOS 3.0, maybe it's a little choppy, but at least I didn't have to figure out which app to switch to so I could see it.

    What happens on your iThing if you go to Jeep.com? Or any of the host of sites that insist on starting with a Flash homepage? Yeah, I thought so.

    Flash is an important feature of webOS. It provides an uninterrupted web experience, which your iThing can't replicate.

    -- just caught your last clause "and outdated websites". That's a great CYA for your position, but really, will "outdated websites" go away anytime soon?
    Last edited by blinktreo; 07/06/2011 at 06:33 PM. Reason: added the fact non-iThing sites are still sites
  4.    #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    On my TouchPad, I see the link, I click it, and I'm looking at it. In this zero-day release of webOS 3.0, maybe it's a little choppy, but at least I didn't have to figure out which app to switch to so I could see it.
    Best way of putting it I have heard yet. I also loved "uninterrupted web experience" HP should use that, great punchline.

    webOS - An uninterrupted web experience
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    Well, you've done a good job of identifying Flash-based solutions that have been replaced by apps. And those solutions are all workarounds, imho, that leave a large part of the web untouched.

    Go to BoingBoing.net. It's a news aggregator, and they mix all sorts of stories into their blog. They also mix videos from YouTube, vimeo, hulu, network news like msnbc, cnn, fox, and even reason.tv.

    If you're on an iThing, you might see a video from Youtube you'd like to watch (but can't, in-line). So you try to find the link on Youtube with a different application, and hopefully find an HTML5 version. You've got a fairly high likelihood of success, after searching, because YouTube is trying hard to migrate its stuff onto HTML5.

    Of course the rest of the sources I described, Vimeo, Hulu, Network News, etc, you're SOL, unless they created a special viewer for you, in which case you're moved to another app to view the video.

    Another example is charts. Lots of interactive charts have been built with Flash or Flex. No option for you, unless there's an alternative that requires a special viewer.

    On my TouchPad, I see the link, I click it, and I'm looking at it. In this zero-day release of webOS 3.0, maybe it's a little choppy, but at least I didn't have to figure out which app to switch to so I could see it.

    What happens on your iThing if you go to Jeep.com? Or any of the host of sites that insist on starting with a Flash homepage? Yeah, I thought so.

    Flash is an important feature of webOS. It provides an uninterrupted web experience, which your iThing can't replicate.
    fine. I will give you automobile websites. I will take games, video, photo, chat, and communication apps.

    Who needs to play awesome games when I can shop for a Chevy all day?
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by lukehale View Post
    He did specifically state "if the web features are truly up to par". I think that changes the meaning a bit from how you might be reading it.
    Ok, you keep waiting for that. I will keep my native apps.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by lukehale View Post
    He did specifically state "if the web features are truly up to par". I think that changes the meaning a bit from how you might be reading it.

    Regardless, that isn't the point of the whole thread, my argument was not to say there is ZERO need for apps. The point of the thread is about whether or not flash functionality on the touchpad is underrated. I think it is, seems at least a handful agree. You do not, no big deal, not required, we can all coexist, just like iOS, Andriod, and webOS (and maybe even the Playbook, if we are feeling generous)
    Agreed. webOS was constructed as, well, a "Web OS". Flash is buggy, but I can really experience the Web with my TouchPad. Unless you step up to netbooks, you can't say any tablet can boast that experience. My personal belief is that iThing adherants just expect the entire WWW will be reconfigured for them. Good luck with that.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    Agreed. webOS was constructed as, well, a "Web OS". Flash is buggy, but I can really experience the Web with my TouchPad. Unless you step up to netbooks, you can't say any tablet can boast that experience. My personal belief is that iThing adherants just expect the entire WWW will be reconfigured for them. Good luck with that.
    Nowhere did I say Flash doesn't have its place. I was responding to the comment that native apps are not needed because of flash. That statement is of course ridiculous.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    fine. I will give you automobile websites. I will take games, video, photo, chat, and communication apps.

    Who needs to play awesome games when I can shop for a Chevy all day?
    Well, this is a pathetic argument. "Because the stuff I like to do is covered by iOS, nothing else matters".

    Really, you're so playing into the "Apple folks are smug" stereotype. My mom gets an iPad. She sees a cooking site that she'd like to view but - whoa! The vids that come along with the recipe can't be played because she has an iPad!

    She buys a Touchpad, goes to her recipe site, clicks the video and it plays. Why is this hard to understand?
    aberndotnet likes this.
  10.    #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Ok, you keep waiting for that. I will keep my native apps.
    I don't understand how you keep taking my points out of context. I have said mutiple times and i will say it again. I AGREE with you that I prefer native apps once they are availible, but as it stands they are not. Yet.

    But as far as the uninterrupted web experience, there is no arguing with the value of that. I even still find it annoying when my Veer pulls up the Youtube app automatically, and it has flash for everything else., Flash on the Veer also works great (for me), though a bit more limited. Anyone with a Veer or Pre2 know how to stop that?

    Anyway, the internet, the FULL desktop internet, flash and all, is still by far a much bigger place than what is available for tablets, so for people new to tablets, it makes the transition even that much easier.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Nowhere did I say Flash doesn't have its place. I was responding to the comment that native apps are not needed because of flash. That statement is of course ridiculous.
    Mea culpa. There are indeed apps that automate a site far better than Flash can do. What I think you're missing is the fact that HP is trying to make a seamless web experience. Flash is lagging atm, but when Adobe and HP figure out how to work well together, your tablet experience should be the same as your desktop experience.

    Apple's viewpoint is that "your site doesn't meet our standards (which include excluding Flash because it might play in our sandbox)".
    lukehale likes this.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by blinktreo View Post
    Well, this is a pathetic argument. "Because the stuff I like to do is covered by iOS, nothing else matters".

    Really, you're so playing into the "Apple folks are smug" stereotype. My mom gets an iPad. She sees a cooking site that she'd like to view but - whoa! The vids that come along with the recipe can't be played because she has an iPad!

    She buys a Touchpad, goes to her recipe site, clicks the video and it plays. Why is this hard to understand?
    Yep, I have Apple devices. I also have a Pre, Veer, and a Shiny new TouchPad (the back is a little smudged up though).

    I can say the same thing. "Because the stuff I do is available in Flash, nothing else matters".

    My mom gets a TouchPad, She looks for an app that allows her to create a powerpoint presentation to show to her cooking class. She checks for a Flash app and doesn't find one.

    She tried to kill time by downloading some awesome games, she checks for a flash app and instead of a great gaming experience, she finds the flash version of whack a mole.

    She really wants to read a Kindle book. While a web app might be available she finds the experience lacking. The native Kindle app provides a far better experience.

    She wants to have a IM conversation with a friend. There are a bunch of IM web apps available, but none of them tie into the TouchPad notification system. Instead, she uses the native chat apps that offers a far better experience.

    etc, etc, etc.
  13. mosdl's Avatar
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    #53  
    facebook games work. qed.
    Apps: MyQ for Netflix (Phone/TouchPad), Giantbomb (Phone), Excavate (Reddit/Digg clients for TouchPad)
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by mosdl View Post
    facebook games work. qed.
    yes, but they are all pretty bad.
  15.    #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Nowhere did I say Flash doesn't have its place. I was responding to the comment that native apps are not needed because of flash. That statement is of course ridiculous.
    I don't find it ridiculous in the slightest. There probably are many apps that make native apps not needed. Hulu can be fully enjoyed on thd Touchpad, no app needed(until they block it of course). The Youtube app has already been rendered useles. First thanks to HTML 5 on iOS, and now with flash as well on webOS. So no, it is not a ridiculous idea. Some apps may provide functionality the full site does not, but very few. Most times it is the other way around. At least not for long once the site figures out it is a worthwhile feature. Why would they deprive the much larger windows/mac/linux user base?
    Last edited by lukehale; 07/06/2011 at 07:07 PM. Reason: I really gotta master this keyboard. . . Too many typos
  16.    #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    Yep, I have Apple devices. I also have a Pre, Veer, and a Shiny new TouchPad (the back is a little smudged up though).

    I can say the same thing. "Because the stuff I do is available in Flash, nothing else matters".

    My mom gets a TouchPad, She looks for an app that allows her to create a powerpoint presentation to show to her cooking class. She checks for a Flash app and doesn't find one.

    She tried to kill time by downloading some awesome games, she checks for a flash app and instead of a great gaming experience, she finds the flash version of whack a mole.

    She really wants to read a Kindle book. While a web app might be available she finds the experience lacking. The native Kindle app provides a far better experience.

    She wants to have a IM conversation with a friend. There are a bunch of IM web apps available, but none of them tie into the TouchPad notification system. Instead, she uses the native chat apps that offers a far better experience.

    etc, etc, etc.

    You really like ignoring the broader scope of this thread don't you? You keep going back to this "Flash kills Apps" we are are supposedly pushing, which we aren't. We are praising the merits of having good Flash support on the device, likd the desktop level browsing, and that in fact can make many apps obsolete, and others able to be lived without UNTIL they are released. No one is saying, other than the one comment you referred to earlier, that Flash makes all apps unneccesary. No reason to keep focusing on a nonexistant argument against you.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by mobileman View Post
    My mom gets a TouchPad, She looks for an app that allows her to create a powerpoint presentation to show to her cooking class.
    ROFL!!

    So, does your mom or any other family member have a need for creating PP presentations? Apparently, if it's available on iOS and not on any competing platforms, then apparently yes - she needs one. (are there any Powerpoint apps on iOS?).

    I would like to remove considerations on whether anyone's mother is involved with the OS wars is a valid argument. That way lies ad hominems, which I'm a sucker for. I was just using it as an example.

    You haven't proved your point.

    Done with feeding the trolls.
  18. #58  
    The day I bought my TouchPad one of the first things I did was load up "White and Nerdy" on YouTube to test out Flash. Later that evening I streamed the UFC weigh-ins live and was very impressed. Lots of useful, entertaining things are done with Flash, and I'm thankful to have the option to use it when I want it. That said, FlashBlock is one of the first Firefox extensions I install on desktops, and was similarly happy to find the 'Enable Flash' and 'Autoload Flash' options in the webOS browser.

    Having the choice is great!
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  19. Smubeht's Avatar
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    #59  
    This guy took 1 guys comments in here and took over the thread with banter.

    Flash Apps do not replace the need of ALL iPad apps.
    Flash Apps do replace the need of SOME iPad apps.

    The 100,000 iPad # after removing the non-native apps becomes a MUCH smaller #.

    Nobody is saying that there are no iPad apps that aren't better than a Flash counterpart, because one who have to be stupid to argue that. What people are saying is simple that there are a lot of apps created SOLELY for the reason that content is not accessible on the web due to restrictions in the form of flash.

    For the Touchpad we definitely want more native apps, but we don't need the big list of content apps that simply provide web content in a different form due to lack of flash. I think that is all anyone here is trying to say.

    Again, NO ONE is saying that FLASH apps replace the need for ANY or ALL native apps.
    louisoneal likes this.
  20. #60  
    Here's my question to you guys:

    Why are content providers like ABC, Hulu, Google, MLB, DirecTV, Comcast, NFL, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. choosing to develop native applications for devices instead of pushing for the "web"?

    It's not Apple doing this (they may have played a role in influencing), it's those creating these native applications and neglecting the idea of delivering the same experience through the browser.

    Hint: it's because they can't. yet.
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