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  1. Zyphlin's Avatar
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    #21  
    I think people do that hrminer because to them, the various flaws when added together are fatal to them. Everyone has that balance of the various shortcomings compared to the benefit of WebOS and everyone's point of balance is different.

    Also, part of it is just how humans in general view things. Like it or not, "standard" and "Default" and "top end" are things that do exist in the mind of the buying public. The TouchPad doesn't exist in a bubble, it exists within the tablet market of July 2011. If you match most of the competition on hardware things and just leave software to talk about, software becomes the 100% focus because there's nothing to talk about with hardware. However, if you don't match the competition on hardware suddenly the conversation is split 50/50 between the two. For example, battery life isn't a big discussion point in reviews because its comparable with all the others. If it was significantly better or worse it'd get more attention. Since its neither, it free's up more time for talk of other things.

    Right now, people disappointed in the touchpad seem to be in two separate camps (That do have some cross over). Those upset about software issues (no text editing, possible lag and freezes, lack of "basic" apps, etc) and those upset with hardware issues (bigger then every other 10" tablet on the market, plastic material compared to the metallic Xoom/iPad/Tab, lack of rear camera, etc). I honestly think if one or the other was less of an issue...IE if the software felt more like a polished 2nd gen OS rather than clunky in a similar way Honeycomb felt at first or the hardware was comparable to the iPad2/Tab10"...that you'd see a lot more focus on the good.

    There's a lot of good there, and especially unique good. Touchstone and Exhibition! The slidable panels. At least some gesture support. Beats audio. The various phone pairing features. The amazing notification and multitasking system. The fact it does have more apps at launch then Honeycomb had.

    But because there's significant issues for at least a fair amount of people (I don't think you take critics for gospel, but i also don't think you completely write off all of them) in both software and hardware when compared to the competition that it reduces the time to focus on them.

    Let me give an analogy. Lets say most cars have remote door unlockers. Some high end cars come with a engine starter. So then you write a review about a car that doesn't have either, it just has a key that you can use to unlock the door, but it charges the same as the high end car. Now, does anyone really need a door unlocker? Sure its nice, but its not like you can't just walk the extra few feet and stick the key in. The thing is though, the unlockers have became standard and on high end things the engine start is beginning to become that way too. So its not unexpected when the reviewer takes time out to talk about the key...even though its not THAT big of a deal.

    That's kind of the issue here, and I think that's why you have some people perhaps seeming predisposed. Because there's some basic things that seem almost standard in the tablet market in July 2011 that are simply not even present in the TouchPad...and it creates a very much headscratching response, especially in those who really did want to see the device be their next or new tablet purchase.
    WarHorn79 likes this.
  2. #22  
    Your absolutely right Jay. There are a good several on this site who have nothing but negative to say while completely ignoring the positive.
    I think there are a couple who just love to whine and be negative. And there are also those who are in love with a different OS, and therefore they only concentrate on what webOS has wrong and their chosen OS has better while claiming anything webOS does better to be completely irrelevant and that there is no real failing on the their chosen OS.
    It is this latter group that I believe really disrupt things on this forum, because they post every little news that is positive about their chosen OS (something we can find on a more appropriate website) but contribute nothing to the webOS discussion.
    Don't get me wrong, there are some that are generally open to a lot of mobile OSs such as PhoneDiva, but for the others its about time they found a more appropriate forum.
    It would be nice if these would leave so that the forum would be a more pleasant place and would be on topic.
  3. #23  
    I see the software issues as correctable and for the most part, minor. I really don't understand the fetish for metal over plastic. I have a Macbook Pro at work and I hate the metal unibody. I have to take my watch off otherwise the scraping between it and the Mac drives me up a wall. I'd prefer a non-conductive plastic machine.
  4. #24  
    I probably would be categorized as "predisposed to hate the Touchpad", based on what the author wrote. I think we are just deeply disappointed with HP and WebOS (the Veer and the Touchpad are just, barely, decent devices compared to the current market). I was constantly checking yesterday to see the Touchpad reviews, I was almost praying, thinking "come on, come on, tell me they optimized it, tell me it isn't like in the previews". But no, it was just like in the previews, just worse, as constant uncontrolled usage clearly allows more space for bugs and sluggishness to show.
  5. RafRol's Avatar
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    #25  
    Visor/Sprint Springboard Expansion Module > Visor Platinum > Tungsten E > Centro (work) > Palm Pre
  6. #26  
    I don't hate the Touchpad, I just hate all tablets period.
  7. #27  
    Nobody talks about the lack of apps on Honeycomb, but it lacks more than the touchpad.

    I must recognize I'm getting tired of this forum. As much as it's an invaluable source of webOs related info, it's becoming a true pain not being able to read a simple topic without people trashing devices, or webOS itself.

    How many millions of times we must read Touchpad flaws? I'll tell you: on the specs sheets.

    Ah, an my JFYI, if Sprint doesn't carry webOS forums, it's Sprint the place where you must complain.

    -- Sent using Communities
    Newness Developments apps:

  8. #28  
    Everybody complains about the lack of apps on Honeycomb...
    Zyphlin likes this.
  9. #29  
    Mmmm.... Not here, where Android tablets are shown like what the touchpad should be...

    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad
    Newness Developments apps:

  10. #30  
    I am just the opposite. I had nothing but good things to say about the touchpad and couldnt wait. After seeing the videos and the reviews I passed on it for another tablet . I had high hopes that this was going to save Webos but I have other feelings now. Not that its a really bad tablet or anything but in this market you have to distingquish your product and make it better, different. the Touchpad is like the Playbook or the Xoom etc. Nothing new. and the reviews really were not great ( not bad just not great) . WEBOS fans will love it . Will be a big hit with them but websos users are a small minority and HP needs the mass Tablet buyers to say "Hey I want a Tocuhpad over XXXX" and I said just the opposite. alot of better tablets for alot cheaper with less issues and more apps. I hope it sells well though and becomes popular and as I alsways say it is just my opinion. and I am one person so my opinion really means squat. The general public will make there own decisions.
  11. #31  
    Exactly and thats why Honeycomb tablets are not selling . the same issue HP tablets will have. Also Honeycomb is not anything special. I would never buy a tablet because of Honeycomb . If I was buying a Android tablet I would get a 2.3 tablet before a Honeycomb tablet anyday. more apps and such.

    Quote Originally Posted by augustofretes View Post
    Everybody complains about the lack of apps on Honeycomb...
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by VaccPalm View Post
    I am one person so my opinion really means squat. The general public will make there own decisions.
    yeah, we are collectively just a bigger squat, people fail to see that.

    Its never about what us thinking, its about the general public, 3 million of them that HP is trying to sell touchpad to this year. I bought my Pre on launch day, waiting before the freaking radioshack opened, and gonna use it until it dies, that means squat too, because I can't buy 3 million pre-s alone to save the damn company.

    Its sad, and bitter alright, bitter that HP couldn't manage to put out a product that befitting the webOS and make it successful. Especially in comparison to the shocking quick move pulled off by samsung, thats how a dedicated company do to make sure a product go on to succeed. You bet I question if HP really has the heart or determination to make webOS succeed.

    And its infuriating to argue with dumb logic here and there. If you just want to be a #2 tablet, don't price like #1, if you think you can not be compared to another tablet, then don't price like it.
    Last edited by clevin; 07/01/2011 at 06:39 AM.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by dcbo89 View Post
    hey, give me video out and I'd probably love a touchpad, but yeah, for now i'm just annoyed they didnt bother to include a rather basic feature in my mind. I'm not so much anti touchpad as just annoyed that its useless for my needs.
    Really love how when something's not included, some random self-appointed expert rises out of the masses to conclude that it's missing some particular "basic feature" or another. However, none ever provides an objective measurable definition of "basic feature".

    I'll definitely grant that the "basic feature" of any phone is that it can make and receive calls. By definition of "phone" this is what the device must do. "Basic Feature" however, seems to be used for some nebulous target (yes, that's an oxymoron) only the user of the term "basic feature" knows.

    I've read posts in the days when the original Pre was released of people stating that Visual Voicemail is a basic feature. Really? Provide your criteria. To me that seems quite advanced.

    Oh! And of course a definition such as, "something that was on my last phone" or just as bad "something that's on all/most other phones" really doesn't cut it since ("all" would make it false, and "most" is ambiguous).

    ... sorry about the excessive use of logic here. I'm a logician by education and profession. The vast majority of the so called "arguments" on this site make me LOL.
  14. #34  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlongo View Post
    Really love how when something's not included, some random self-appointed expert rises out of the masses to conclude that it's missing some particular "basic feature" or another. However, none ever provides an objective measurable definition of "basic feature".

    I'll definitely grant that the "basic feature" of any phone is that it can make and receive calls. By definition of "phone" this is what the device must do.

    "Basic Feature" however, seems to be used for some nebulous target (yes, that's an oxymoron) only the user of the term "basic feature" knows.

    I've read posts in the days when the original Pre was released of people stating that Visual Voicemail is a basic feature. Really? Provide your criteria. To me that seems quite advanced.

    Oh! And of course a definition such as, "something that was on my last phone" or just as bad "something that's on all/most other phones" really doesn't cut it since ("all" would make it false, and "most" is ambiguous).

    ... sorry about the excessive use of logic here. I'm a logician by education and profession. The vast majority of the so called "arguments" on this site make me LOL.
    I don't see anything resembling (formal) logic here =P:

    Definition. A "Basic feature" is a feature f relative to the price range p and market competitors at a given time t, if and only if, f is available on most competitors relative to p and t.

    Definition. On most competitors = if for every c in C such that P(c) = 0, there are at least three unique c' in C such that P(c') = 1 and the cardinality of C is equal or bigger than two (C is obviously a finite set).

    Theorem. Video out is a basic feature relative to touchpad's p and t.

    Proof. If it were false, then it will follow trivially that most competitors don't have it. But, as a matter of fact, relative to t and p, most competitor do have it. So... □
    Last edited by augustofretes; 07/01/2011 at 08:36 AM.
    StuckwVerizon likes this.
  15. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by augustofretes View Post
    I don't see anything resembling logic here (coming from somebody who had the patience to read Principia Matematica complete).

    Definition. A "Basic feature" is a feature f relative to the price p and market competitors at a given time t, if and only if is f available on most competitors relative to p and t.

    Theorem. Video out is a basic feature relative to the touchpad.

    Proof. If it were false, then it will follow trivially that most competitors don't have it. But relative to t and p, most competitor do have it.
    Much better!

    BTW. Nice to meet someone who clearly understands at least the basics of the Principia (had a professor who swore that even Russelle couldn't believe the assertions of some of the postulates -- they're certainly not self evident such as those of Euclid or Newton). Perhaps you would enjoy an offline discussion about the Incompleteness Theorem sometime.
  16.    #36  
    Hi all,

    I think your missing the point when I started this thread...there are a number of people on this site, who were bad mouthing the TouchPad WEEKS AND WEEKS BEFORE IT WENT UP FOR SALE OR WAS REVIEWED...funny isn't it that these people now also hate it? BTW I'm not saying you were one of these people.....

    Take care,

    Jay
    Please Support Research into Fibromyalgia, Chronic Pain and Spinal Injuries. If You Suffer from These, Consider Joining or Better Yet Forming a Support Group. No One Should Suffer from the Burden of Chronic Pain, Jay M. S. Founder, Leesburg Fibromyalgia/Resources Group
  17. #37  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Nobody talks about the lack of apps on Honeycomb, but it lacks more than the touchpad.

    I must recognize I'm getting tired of this forum. As much as it's an invaluable source of webOs related info, it's becoming a true pain not being able to read a simple topic without people trashing devices, or webOS itself.

    How many millions of times we must read Touchpad flaws? I'll tell you: on the specs sheets.

    Ah, an my JFYI, if Sprint doesn't carry webOS forums, it's Sprint the place where you must complain.

    -- Sent using Communities
    Honeycomb has about 323 tablet optimzed apps and a few that are optimized for both phone and tablet. so all in all the touchpad and honeycomb are about even.
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by ronlongo View Post
    Much better!

    BTW. Nice to meet someone who clearly understands at least the basics of the Principia (had a professor who swore that even Russelle couldn't believe the assertions of some of the postulates -- they're certainly not self evident such as those of Euclid or Newton). Perhaps you would enjoy an offline discussion about the Incompleteness Theorem sometime.
    Agreed, is really nice to find people who like Principia and logic. I'm sure Russell had his doubts, but most of the axioms are fairly straight forward, except, of course, the "multiplication axiom" (axiom of choice) and the "Axioms of reducibility". Also, Russell complicated the theory based on a confusion (he went with the Ramified instead of the simple types), but I've never seen a another book so clear and with so high quality demonstrations as Principia. Russell truly had a passion for certainty.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I think people do that hrminer because to them, the various flaws when added together are fatal to them. Everyone has that balance of the various shortcomings compared to the benefit of WebOS and everyone's point of balance is different.

    Also, part of it is just how humans in general view things. Like it or not, "standard" and "Default" and "top end" are things that do exist in the mind of the buying public. The TouchPad doesn't exist in a bubble, it exists within the tablet market of July 2011. If you match most of the competition on hardware things and just leave software to talk about, software becomes the 100% focus because there's nothing to talk about with hardware. However, if you don't match the competition on hardware suddenly the conversation is split 50/50 between the two. For example, battery life isn't a big discussion point in reviews because its comparable with all the others. If it was significantly better or worse it'd get more attention. Since its neither, it free's up more time for talk of other things.

    Right now, people disappointed in the touchpad seem to be in two separate camps (That do have some cross over). Those upset about software issues (no text editing, possible lag and freezes, lack of "basic" apps, etc) and those upset with hardware issues (bigger then every other 10" tablet on the market, plastic material compared to the metallic Xoom/iPad/Tab, lack of rear camera, etc). I honestly think if one or the other was less of an issue...IE if the software felt more like a polished 2nd gen OS rather than clunky in a similar way Honeycomb felt at first or the hardware was comparable to the iPad2/Tab10"...that you'd see a lot more focus on the good.

    There's a lot of good there, and especially unique good. Touchstone and Exhibition! The slidable panels. At least some gesture support. Beats audio. The various phone pairing features. The amazing notification and multitasking system. The fact it does have more apps at launch then Honeycomb had.

    But because there's significant issues for at least a fair amount of people (I don't think you take critics for gospel, but i also don't think you completely write off all of them) in both software and hardware when compared to the competition that it reduces the time to focus on them.

    Let me give an analogy. Lets say most cars have remote door unlockers. Some high end cars come with a engine starter. So then you write a review about a car that doesn't have either, it just has a key that you can use to unlock the door, but it charges the same as the high end car. Now, does anyone really need a door unlocker? Sure its nice, but its not like you can't just walk the extra few feet and stick the key in. The thing is though, the unlockers have became standard and on high end things the engine start is beginning to become that way too. So its not unexpected when the reviewer takes time out to talk about the key...even though its not THAT big of a deal.

    That's kind of the issue here, and I think that's why you have some people perhaps seeming predisposed. Because there's some basic things that seem almost standard in the tablet market in July 2011 that are simply not even present in the TouchPad...and it creates a very much headscratching response, especially in those who really did want to see the device be their next or new tablet purchase.
    I think this is the best comment of the thread or the day!
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by ilovedessert View Post
    Hi all,

    I think your missing the point when I started this thread...there are a number of people on this site, who were bad mouthing the TouchPad WEEKS AND WEEKS BEFORE IT WENT UP FOR SALE OR WAS REVIEWED...funny isn't it that these people now also hate it? BTW I'm not saying you were one of these people.....

    Take care,

    Jay
    Problem is people have known about TP since Feb 9th and knew it wasnt going to change to be more competitive than IP-2 or samsung Tab.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
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