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  1.    #1  
    Quote Originally Posted by rmausser View Post
    It is laggy for this reason:

    Not all visuals are GPU accelerated.

    I spoke to Richard Kerris at the WebOS Developer Connect in Toronto and he said that HP simply ran out of time rewriting all the CSS3 to be GPU accelerated. Its a huge change.

    So, whenever the CPU begins to do something that requires 100% resource, the visuals lag as the CPU has no more cycles to allocate to rendering visual elements. Everything visually stops in its tracks while the CPU plays catchup with whatever background task it is completing.

    iOS doesnt appear to do this because the visuals are all GPU accelerated. Even if a task takes as long to complete, the user can still manipulate the visuals on the screen, giving the allusion that nothing is "lagging" behind the scenes.

    Richard said that the next update of the OS that will be pushed out within the next week or so will have full GPU acceleration for the visuals of the OS, but not apps themselves. The apps have to be enabled by the developers (they have to write the CSS to be GPU accelerated)

    But at least the OS as a whole and the HP/Palm apps will be fully accelerated by the GPU soon, and the lag will be a thing of the past.

    HP really wanted this to be done before launch, but again, they didnt want to push back the release date, because of the flack they got in the past for "in the coming months..."
    Rmausser has got the inside info to set the record straight. The OTA update should solve the main issues most reviewers have seen with application lag due to lack of GPU acceleration. Thx Richard Kerris and Rmausser!
  2. #2  
    Thank you.
    Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
    clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
    Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

  3. ijip's Avatar
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    #3  
    well they know since they have already tested it in their labs.... this is great... i guess the update will come in time for canadian release....

    too bad though i'm getting it launch day =\
    Want to help design and write an app?
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  4. spare's Avatar
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    #4  
    let this come true.
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by ijip View Post
    well they know since they have already tested it in their labs....
    Still not enough evidence. If they posted a video, that would not be enough evidence. When they send the update, it will still not be enough evidence.
    Neo Enyo 2.0 Twitter App: NOW AVAILABLE | WON REVIEW
    clearview - clear card app for HP TOUCHPAD
    Wild'n Video Poker - AVAILABLE FOR ALL WEBOS DEVICES! | follow for latest updates - @fxspec06

  6. samab's Avatar
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    #6  
    I can tell you that it's going to be more complicated than that. Much of the Playbook's UI is rendered by the CPU, not by the GPU (video at 25:20).

  7. #7  
    hope it comes soon
  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by FenrirWolf View Post
    hope it comes soon
    The guy said within next week, so yeah, should be very soon.
  9. ijip's Avatar
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    #9  
    reading that statement again it seems like when an app is loading or u have lots of heavy apps running and u decide to move around the OS there should be no hiccups.

    i dont know if it will help apps load much faster, just seems like transitions will be smoother. which is nice -=)

    i want to see who gets the first too many cards error~!
    Want to help design and write an app?
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  10. zineesh's Avatar
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    #10  
    i really hope this update sorts out the lag, every review i have read complain about the lag issue and some of the review videos are painfull to watch because of the lag. I am no developer, but isnt enyo apps hardware accelerated.
  11.    #11  
    abgenx
    5 minutes ago
    I thought I might just illuminate the discussion with some real information:*
    Most of the complaints people are finding with the TouchPad fall into 3 groups:

    1. Size - it's thicker (0.2 inches more) *and heavier (100 grams) than the iPad and Galaxy Tab - True. I believe it's no coincidence that it's also easier to service and has a more PC build to it. For something to work all over the world, it has to be fixable by non-sophisticated authorized HP channel partners everywhere. *It's an acceptable design tradeoff. *There's also a Touchstone coil in the device. I'm not sure if that accounts for some of the size.*

    2. UI Glitches and some Lagginess - Not all of the visuals on HP TouchPad are GPU accelerated. HP ran out of time *and decided it would have to wait for the first major update while other things were prioritized. Rewriting all the CSS3 is a non-trivial undertaking.*

    Whenever the CPU starts something that requires full resources, the visuals lag because cycles are overtaxed and cannot spare anything for visual elements. This is the lag you see when things freeze as the CPU catches up. On iOS, this doesn't happen because all visuals are GPU accelerated. So when you have a task that takes the same time to complete on iOS and webOS 3.0, the iOS visuals can still be manipulated giving the impression that there's no lag. Something IS lagging behind the scenes nonetheless, it's just the math reality.*

    The next webOS update (out very soon, maybe even in 2 weeks) will have full GPU acceleration for the OS visuals. Any apps that haven't been written in precompiled code will need an update to rewrite the CSS. So developers will need to push out some updates once they're done.*

    In short, this lag will go away pretty fast and become ancient history. *There was a tradeoff between the launch window and rewriting the CSS. *It seems this is a pretty high priority project within the company right now and once it ships, much more goodness already on the roadmap will follow.*

    3. Apps - HP will move heaven and earth to get apps onto the webOS platform. Once the lag issue is fixed, a true iOS like experience will start permeating and porting from iOS and Android will begin in earnest. Enough said about that.

    Why do I know this? Because Richard Kerris, *head honcho of webOS Developer relations and Apple alum said so."

    And yet another user backing up Richard Kerris comments about the TP future, this one being the most recent comment in response to Engadget's TP review (THIS WAS NOT ME COMMENTING ABOVE, IT WAS A USER ON ENGADGET COMMENTING)
  12. #12  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    I can tell you that it's going to be more complicated than that. Much of the Playbook's UI is rendered by the CPU, not by the GPU (video at 25:20).

    Ahhh, so you know more than HP does. Good to have the experts here.
    /sarcasm

    BTW, it's probably worth mentioning, the Playbook apps don't generally use CSS, and the WebOS apps generally do.
    Carioca_FL likes this.
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I have been hearing about speed improvements for 2 years now. The way things are going I have a strong feeling HP will eventually put Webos on the back burner.
    Really? A $1.2bil investment on the back burner? You've got to be joking.

    HP really wanted this to be done before launch, but again, they didnt want to push back the release date, because of the flack they got in the past for "in the coming months..."
    That cracks me up. Totally legit. I doubt they're going to be using those terms any more. Way to go guys! You had to ruin it for everyone with your lame jokes over the leaving months!
  14. #14  
    With all do respect, from HP's prospective they should have delayed the release hell even another month if thats what it would take to iron out the kinks.

    While yes, we as WEBOS fans can accept this answer and early wait for the next update. It would be foolish to expect newcomers to the OS to purchase the device on that merit.

    You can not tell new customers buy this buggy device, cause we will make it work great in the future.

    That said, I hope HP manages to pull this off.
  15. samab's Avatar
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    #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by FliedLice View Post
    Really? A $1.2bil investment on the back burner? You've got to be joking.
    Cisco killed Flip --- even though Flip was profitable.
  16. #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Cisco killed Flip --- even though Flip was profitable.
    Flip did not compliment cisco as a whole. WEBOS can and will be leveraged throughout HP's entire offerings.
  17. #17  
    Quote Originally Posted by deihmos View Post
    I have been hearing about speed improvements for 2 years now. The way things are going I have a strong feeling HP will eventually put Webos on the back burner.
    what makes you think that? the $1.2 billion they spent buying Palm. The forward focused re-write of webOS? The $ they've ponied up for a massive touchpad ad campaign? There pledge to business partners, investors, and developers to have webOS on 100% of the PCs they ship?

    what are you indicators that WebOS will be a side project for HP. Everything points to them puttin massive amounts of effort into making it a premier mobile OS. Sure things are taking longer that we'd like, but i see no intent to put webOS on the back burner.
    feltmoney likes this.
  18. nhavar's Avatar
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    #18  
    This should ring true for anyone who has ever attempted to manage animation queues in any of the web API's like jquery or mootools. You either have to wait for the animation to catch up, force some sort of visual to tell the user to stop, and keep the queue going or more realistically STOP queued animations and move on to whatever the user is currently wanting to do. Doing that STOP creates an inconsistent feel for the user, but benefits by reducing lag.

    Switching from JavaScript animations to pure CSS animations means no more queue management but also means that the renderer needs to be optimized and the CPU or GPU needs to be capable to handle the load. This is especially true when you have people who expect to be able to just constantly tap-tap-tap-tap and everything look nice and seamless.
    LCGuy likes this.
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by stri8ed View Post
    With all do respect, from HP's prospective they should have delayed the release hell even another month if thats what it would take to iron out the kinks.

    While yes, we as WEBOS fans can accept this answer and early wait for the next update. It would be foolish to expect newcomers to the OS to purchase the device on that merit.

    You can not tell new customers buy this buggy device, cause we will make it work great in the future.

    That said, I hope HP manages to pull this off.
    Actually, I believe delaying it would've been worse. They had committed to summer, so another couple of months of delay could have quite a negative impact on image (or whatever other measure you want to use), whereas releasing now, on schedule, and then simply fixing it via OTA updates is much less of an impact.

    Specially since HP must realize that their sales ramp up will be (much?) slower than Apple's, Samsung's or any of the top selling tablets now. And they also must (it's the only way, really) be able to stomach a long sales cycle. At least I remember hearing Rubinstein saying in a recent interview that they're in it for the long haul -or something of that nature; I'll see if I can find the actual interview.

    And so, with this slow but steady sales growth, HP can even afford to send smaller OTA updates with more frequency, so that the improvements will be felt earlier.

    //edit: and here's Jon's interview with the quote I mentioned earlier. It wasn't too far off.

    http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...5040584134.htm

    Bradley and Rubinstein say that if the TouchPad's reception is lukewarm initially, they'll be patient. "We have a really good opportunity to become No. 2 in tablets fairly quickly," Rubinstein says. "Possibly No. 1."
    IMNSHO, the "Possibly No. 1." quote we could all have done without it. Not because it isn't possible -it is, but maybe in 3-5 years. Being THAT far off, in the tech world, anyone hearing that will just laugh it off, so no reason making yourself an easy target.

    But if they stay the course, focus and don't fksc things up, webOS has a really good chance.
    Last edited by Carioca_FL; 06/30/2011 at 10:33 PM.
    mmoran27 and feltmoney like this.
  20.    #20  
    The only negative I have in the back of my mind regarding the onslaught of critical reviews out there (most of which can be addressed with App proliferation and OTA updates) is that the average target customer will read them, and then decide on an iPad 2 or Galaxy Tab 10.1 as a better alternative. While there are arguments for deciding against the Touchpad in favor of these devices, I being a webOS native, will be getting my Touchpad next week with the faith in HPalm to improve my tablet experience over time. The problem is that in order to make a successful venture into the tablet market, there not only has to be buzz about the product (which there has been about the TP) but also the reviews the average customer reads before purchasing need to be favorable to persuade them to buy. It's just a shame that these customers, and these reviewers don't have the foresight precentral, it's users and I do regarding the remedies to the "lag" situation, the lack of apps and the lack of document editing. I sincerely hope that HP's marketing department is getting into hypermode and ready to blitz the airwaves, tv, movies, billboards the whole nine yards.
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