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  1. samab's Avatar
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    #281  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    The Adreno 220 in the TP is actually more powerful than the PowerVR SGX 543MP2 in the iPad 2.
    No, it is not. Adreno 220 is fast, but not that fast.

    AnandTech - Dual Core Snapdragon GPU Performance Explored - 1.5 GHz MSM8660 and Adreno 220 Benchmarks
  2. #282  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    Size and and materials, maybe are subpar.
    Maybe? That's fact sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    But what else is? Is the cpu slower than the ipad? Does it have less ram?
    No and no. (But I didn't mention those, did I?). It's on par here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    Because those are the things that actually matter, not what it's made out of or how many fingerprints it attracts.
    Not true. Not when it costs 500 dollars. The build quality is as important in a premium product, this isn't a netbook.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    I'm anxiously awaiting the proof to back that up.
    The Touchpad uses an Andreno 220 GPU, while the iPad 2 uses a (double core) PowerVR SGX543 (this is the same GPU found on the Vita, but in a dual, instead of quad, core version, minus '+'). If you understand tech jargon I can compare them if you wish, if not, just take my word, it is a big difference (the iPad 2 has by far the best GPU on any tablet, Tegra 2 is a merely hyped)

    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    I guess that's a goodbye letter then?
    Bye?
    Probably... but hope dies last, I want to believe (this should be WebOS fans slogan) HP can do the Pre 3 well. Otherwise I'm jumping ships, Windows Phone 7 Mango looks really, really good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    Wow, someone should do their homework. There is nothing wrong with the build quality. In fact, the reviewers have said it feels sturdy, and in my hands it felt sturdy.
    Where? Most people said it didn't feel premium, actually, some (most) said it has a "cheap feeling". If I'm wrong, please, quote them (I've read every single review of the Touchpad).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    Now size and weight, honestly that is about opinion, because I honestly like the weight of it over the iPad 2. The iPad is too light in my opinion.
    The iPad 2 isn't too light, unless long one-handed carrying isn't a concern... The size has no possible excuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    As for the GPU, yet again how about doing some homework. The Adreno 220 in the TP is actually more powerful than the PowerVR SGX 543MP2 in the iPad 2.
    No, it isn't, not even closed to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    For sluggishness, name me a mobile os that has no sluggishness.
    No other (serious) tablet has the same kind of sluggishness the Touchpad has (not even the Playbook).

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    I'll admit that iOS is far better optimized than any other,
    What is this? A child game? Admitting? Like you were confessing a crime?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    but how about some android? Play with honeycomb which runs on a chipset never intended to push the resolution set by google as their tablet standard. Honeycomb is stutter city, plus anyone who has ever used android is more than familiar with force closes. So we can't really say that it is the poster child for stability.
    No, and, to be fair, nobody has said that. They've merely stated that the Touchpad was the worst of the bunch (optimization wise), that's all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    About quickoffice, ever think about closing it and reopening it? Anyone who knows how to use a computer is familiar with apps not responding (Windows anyone?) What do you do in that situation? Oh that's right end process and reopen the application. So ask me what I think about that reviewers "expertise."
    Actually, I've never experienced such a thing in any tablet. However, this aside, the reviewer did try this (off-camera), the problem only got resolved after a reboot, yes, a reboot. Only to came back later on. Of course, this means reading the review, instead of merely reading the conclusions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    If that's how you feel, then it is obvious you have never written any software or used anything that is man made.
    Actually, I'm not a professional developer, but I have made contributions to OSS (Open Source Software) and bugs fixing (specially KDE bugs, a Linux Desktop Environment)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    Name me one product on the face of the planet that is perfect. You can't.
    No **** Sherlock. I wonder when I asked for a perfect product.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    The webOS engineers are actually some of the best in the industry. Now you might ask how do I know this? Well, if you actually knew anything about the history of webOS, you would know that the majority of the design team are the engineers who left apple that were responsible for designing the iPhone and your precious iOS.
    False, again. Palm got a couple of ex-Apple engineers and some people in charged of product placing, image and design. At most, HP got like 7 ex-Apple employees, without counting Rubenstein (who was encharged of the iPod, and he doesn't do any engineering either...). Many left when Palm was bought by HP.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    Also, Jon Rubenstein is the man who was in charge of the ENTIRE apple hardware design team for everything from Macs to the creation of the iPod.
    He is not an engineer, so it is irrelevant to the point I made, of course, this assumes you can actually understand what a software engineer does.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    Bottom line is, you apparently have not done your homework, and if you leave the community, oh well. Goodbye.
    Actually, I know a lot more about this stuff than you, a lot more. Also I've been a reader of this site since the very first post, yes, the first one, I was that excited about the Pre and WebOS.

    As I said earlier, here's the slogan:

    I want to believe (this should be WebOS fans slogan) HP can do the Pre 3 well
    Last edited by augustofretes; 07/01/2011 at 02:00 AM.
  3. #283  
    Quote Originally Posted by elslunko View Post
    Maybe they needed to be restarted :P. I'll go swing by the Torrance BB tomorrow, though I won't be picking one up ('till I can convince myself that it can replace my laptop for on the go communication).
    maybe. The need to restart often is probably not a good thing though. It's wasn't getting any use so i'm not sure why it would need to be restarted. But it's for me. Yeah i'm not looking to go the tablet route anyways. I'd rather have a laptop as i need to type long documents often and it's much easier on a laptop for me.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  4. #284  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    Size and and materials, maybe are subpar. But what else is? Is the cpu slower than the ipad? Does it have less ram? Because those are the things that actually matter, not what it's made out of or how many fingerprints it attracts.
    i thinks its more about CPU that can run the OS. Multiple reviews said with the powerful CPU, they were surprised the system is not as fast.

    I think there are something deeper in the OS that HP has not figured out yet. Some fundamental rethinking may be in order if there is inherit problem in the OS, otherwise, webOS will always requires better hardwares to achieve similar performances, and that will be costly.
  5. #285  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    I'm not saying you (or anyone else) are wrong, but the link you provided said nothing about iPad2 and mostly just showed how the Adreno 220 smokes everything else.

    I'm still waiting for conclusive proof that the iPad2 is so much better than Adreno 220. I don't care about paper specs, I want real life benchmarks. I want visual obviousness.
  6. #286  
    If you want visual obviousness, then compare the games avaiable for the Touchpad (any you want) with Infinity Blade.
  7. Lunar's Avatar
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    #287  
    Where? Most people said it didn't feel premium, actually, some (most) said it has a "cheap feeling". If I'm wrong, please, quote them (I've read every single review of the Touchpad).
    I didn't read all of the reviews, I only read about 5, but the ones I read didn't say it had a bad build quality, they just didn't like the plastic back due to fingerprints (which I agree with), and of course the size and weight. On size and weight again, I say that is purely opinion. I personally do not like how thin and light the iPad 2 and Galaxy are. It is a personal preference. I do however like the size of the Touchpad.

    The Adreno 220 from all benchmarks I've seen is at least on par with the 543. If not, then ok, I'm wrong. But I have not seen a side by side comparison of the two either.

    Sluggishness on a serious tablet? How about any honeycomb tablet. Just opening the app menu, or switching homescreens is sluggish. I haven't had any experience with the Playbook, so I don't know.

    No **** Sherlock. I wonder when I asked for a perfect product.
    Based on your points that's what it sounds like you wanted from the Touchpad.

    At most, HP got like 7 ex-Apple employees, without counting Rubenstein (who was encharged of the iPod, and he doesn't do any engineering either...). Many left when Palm was bought by HP.
    Well, from the articles I read before the release of the Pre about the design team, that is not what was stated. Also, you might want to check your facts a bit on Rubenstein. He is most definitely an engineer who started his career at HP long ago. He also was responbsible for much more at Apple than just the iPod. I distinctly remember for example at Macworld 2001 in NY where he demonstrated and explained the Power of the G4 at the introduction of the Quicksilver PowerMac.

    He is not an engineer, so it is irrelevant to the point I made, of course, this assumes you can actually understand what a software engineer does.
    Already covered that he is an engineer, but when did I ever say he was a software engineer? Oh wait, I didn't. I'm actually fairly certain that I said hardware design. Hmm. Interesting. Also, I am quite aware of what a software engineer does. Which, is why I understand that there are some issues with webOS 3.0 considering a large portion of the OS and it's core apps were rewrites from scratch. In fact, the situation appears to be quite similar to Android 3.0. Serious performance issues that were ironed out in the 3.1 update.
    Actually, I know a lot more about this stuff than you, a lot more. Also I've been a reader of this site since the very first post, yes, the first one, I was that excited about the Pre and WebOS.
    Congratulations, we've been reading this site the same amount of time. You apparently didn't retain much of what you read though?
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  8. gabe2gg's Avatar
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    #288  
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    I didn't read all of the reviews, I only read about 5, but the ones I read didn't say it had a bad build quality, they just didn't like the plastic back due to fingerprints (which I agree with), and of course the size and weight. On size and weight again, I say that is purely opinion. I personally do not like how thin and light the iPad 2 and Galaxy are. It is a personal preference. I do however like the size of the Touchpad.

    The Adreno 220 from all benchmarks I've seen is at least on par with the 543. If not, then ok, I'm wrong. But I have not seen a side by side comparison of the two either.
    The 220 is more on par to the tegra 2 chipset, heck its even faster than tegra 2. But the 543 is double the power and speed of tegra 2 at least. Also Qualcomm has never made good GPU(aka 200,205) but they make great CPUs. AnandTech - The Apple iPad 2 Review
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    #289  
    I'm psyched about my new touchpad! I bought it this morning, ran back to work for a meeting, and I'm just setting it up now...

    One problem I encountered was that the touchpad setup required a network connection, but I couldn't connect to my access point due to the MAC filter. I was able to disable the MAC filter to continue with the setup. The MAC might be somewhere in the documentation, but I didn't see it. Not a big deal, but I thought someone else might run into this. I finished the setup and added the MAC address to my filter list.

    TIME TO PLAY!!!
  10. #290  
    Here's my first impressions. I played with the TouchPad for 45minutes at BestBuy today. (Sarasota, FL on Tamiami Trail)

    First off, it defiantly has the cool factor going for it. There was another person playing with the TouchPad in front of me and I showed them my TouchPad with 10 different applications going at once. He smiled back :-p Wicked.

    Now for the bad news :-p

    I crashed it while attempting to Load Hulu and Quick Office. Failed. Once it came back up I started opening up some apps and most seemed to go smoothly till I started playing with Flash or Web Browsing. Once I did this somthing reminded me alot like the original webOS 1.x 2.x expierences. You just simply CANNOT load two things at once with webOS. I opened up msnbc.com and interfacelift.com and everything just starts to go to a crawl. I was sad to see this still being a issue. Same goes with if im loading a webpage and go to another application and attempt to use it. It was slow. Same thing with the Launcher it became all laggy no longer smooth. Once the page loaded everything seemed fine. I had my 10 or so various apps open'd and I was able to switch to contacts view some information instantly, then go to the website and scroll around. Then go back to Bing Maps to check for directions. When I had all these cards open Flash did seem to slow down a bit while I was testing out the 720p Transformers 3 trailer on Youtube. When I wasn't doing anything else the 720p video worked nicely. I found it cool to see that when I started playing a msnbc.com flash video, I was able to open up Paratrooper HD game and play, however the frame rate slow'd down. Other PDK apps didn't seem to have this issue.

    All and all, I will not be buying a TouchPad because the experienced gave me cause to believe it would be similar to the webOS 1/2.x once I started to load it up with Contacts Apps etc. Its hard to imagine something preform badly in cases when it has such great hardware behind it. I mean seriously, a GIG of memory? I can hope the update that is rumor'd solves these. I will defiantly re-visit if the demo units get the update?

    Couple notes, The couple BestBuy employees were not well informed. Two came up to me, one was interested in the unit and wanted to watch me use it. The other was trying to sell me the device.

    I kept trying to tell the guy I had a Palm Pre with webOS at one point so I know a thing or two. He proclaimed to say that the TouchPad was the first TRUE multi-tasking device which was nice to hear. However when it came to trying to sell the device. It seemed like the TouchPad fell short. Customers were asking about Movies on the device and obviously there is nothing available just yet. So the customers looked else ware at the iPad. He also knew NOTHING of the Touchstone, but thought it was a cool idea. And also tried to tell me no device comes with built in "voice calling" features since Google and Microsoft got sued for it or something. I told him otherwise about Skype.

    He mentioned that the TouchPad was already having Performance issues and that something like the "Froyo? or Honeycomb" we're much more Fluid. He mentioned that it was surprising noting that no other Tablet had 1GB of memory. I proceeded to tell him the Galaxy Tab with Honeycomb was terrible in its "Fluidness" compared to the TouchPad. Everything was very jittery.

    There was a veer display, but no veer. Since I hadn't seen a veer yet. I inquired only to hear "It might be somewhere in the back, we just set this up today."

    I told him I might be interested in the 16GB and some accessories. He said he only had the 32GB and would check on the 16GB. And in regards to the accessories, he pointed to the shelf with the invisible shields and said anything would be over there. And if we didn't get it when it came, it will be awhile. He later told me the 16GB Touchpads would be in tonight and available for 499.99$.

    The other defuss that was lingering was interested in the device and said, "Im just going to watch you since you know what your doing, and get paid for it!". Heh He liked it thoe.

    In the end, while I was there for my hour or so, MANY people came up to it and we're asking about the "HP Tablet". But none of them were shown nor helped out with the device in ANYWAY. I was the only one initially approached.

    Note; for the naysayers I was aware of the Demo App and made sure not to close the notification about it once I swiped away. I know its a demo unit and a Untouched may preform better. But I don't feel like dishing out 500$ for a experience of returning the device :-p

    PS; I hated not having a gesture area. It felt outdated having to click the "back" button when available. And when I made a click for a submenu, I have to click on the screen somewhere to get it to disappear vs originally using the back swipe. Just seems soo pointless to remove that feature.
    Last edited by Klownicle; 07/01/2011 at 02:47 PM.
  11. #291  
    Quote Originally Posted by Klownicle View Post
    ...
    I crashed it while attempting to Load Hulu and Quick Office. Failed. Once it came back up I started opening up some apps and most seemed to go smoothly till I started playing with Flash or Web Browsing. Once I did this somthing reminded me alot like the original webOS 1.x 2.x expierences.
    As a huge webOS fan I find it sad that HP's decision to enable Flash by default is causing such poor experiences for users. In a perfect world they would have not supported Flash at all. But in the real world they should have at least shipped it with Flash disabled and made users enable it manually after accepting a warning pop-up that said "I understand that by enabling Adobe Flash the stability, performance, and security of my TouchPad will be negatively affected in significant ways and that this terrible piece of software, written by one of the most incompetent software companies on the planet, is being used merely as a differentiating factor when compared to the iPad 2 even though it is a massive liability that is holding back the web and HTML 5, and that when I am lucky enough to have Flash not cause my device to become completely unresponsive I will be treated to video at 11 frames per second in lieu of gorgeous hardware-accelerated HTML 5 video that is natively supported by the powerful graphics chipset in my tablet."

    Disable Flash and almost all of your browsing-related complaints will immediately disappear. This isn't FUD. This isn't an Apple versus webOS thing. This is about the fact that Flash sucks and it is leaving users with a bad impression. It needs to die. Guys, stop supporting insanity and defending this POS software. Turn it off, and enjoy your TouchPad.
  12. Lunar's Avatar
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    #292  
    I couldn't agree more tiddle.
  13. #293  
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiddlekins View Post
    As a huge webOS fan I find it sad that HP's decision to enable Flash by default is causing such poor experiences for users. In a perfect world they would have not supported Flash at all. But in the real world they should have at least shipped it with Flash disabled and made users enable it manually after accepting a warning pop-up that said "I understand that by enabling Adobe Flash the stability, performance, and security of my TouchPad will be negatively affected in significant ways and that this terrible piece of software, written by one of the most incompetent software companies on the planet, is being used merely as a differentiating factor when compared to the iPad 2 even though it is a massive liability that is holding back the web and HTML 5, and that when I am lucky enough to have Flash not cause my device to become completely unresponsive I will be treated to video at 11 frames per second in lieu of gorgeous hardware-accelerated HTML 5 video that is natively supported by the powerful graphics chipset in my tablet."

    Disable Flash and almost all of your browsing-related complaints will immediately disappear. This isn't FUD. This isn't an Apple versus webOS thing. This is about the fact that Flash sucks and it is leaving users with a bad impression. It needs to die. Guys, stop supporting insanity and defending this POS software. Turn it off, and enjoy your TouchPad.
    God, this is so true. Flash is one of the worst things to happen to mobile computing and I think every platform will benefit from its demise.
  14. #294  
    In grad school we did a case study on Apple. What struck me was how its cozy history with the media started with its personal and enterprise desktop publishing software. Apple has nurtured this relationship over the years, and has continued to keep these professionals happy with some of the best editing hardware and software around.

    It's no surprise that they're all so unbelievably biased towards i-products, and against rival products. It's crazy. Everytime I hear media people use iphone interchangeably with smartphone, it makes me cringe. Now they do the same thing with tablets.. Not sure what it'll take for some of them to become objective.
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    #295  
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltcreep View Post
    In grad school we did a case study on Apple. What struck me was how its cozy history with the media started with its personal and enterprise desktop publishing software. Apple has nurtured this relationship over the years, and has continued to keep these professionals happy with some of the best editing hardware and software around.

    It's no surprise that they're all so unbelievably biased towards i-products, and against rival products. It's crazy. Everytime I hear media people use iphone interchangeably with smartphone, it makes me cringe. Now they do the same thing with tablets.. Not sure what it'll take for some of them to become objective.
    Then it all came crashing down with Final Cut Pro X.
  16. #296  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    Then it all came crashing down with Final Cut Pro X.
    Yep. It wasn't that it was a crappy update it was that they decided to not support final cut pro while they update x.

    still aperture wasn't screwed over so im cool.
  17. #297  
    Here's my review: Engadget's wrong.
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    #298  
    Very short and sweet-

    Waited since January to buy the Touchpad and...
    The Screen is not up to par. It needs to be brighter, and have better contrast and black levels. I have checked into the specs of other tablets, and confirmed what my eyes saw.

    Since the screen is very important, this is probably going to kill it for us. Hopefully, the next Touchpad will improve in this area.

    Yes, we did also notice the lags here and there that others have spoken of, but really I am fairly confident those will be taken care of, and would not have been a deal killer.


  19. #299  
    my screen is great
  20. #300  
    Quote Originally Posted by IGNTNUNLMTD View Post
    Here's my review: Engadget's wrong.
    Luckily for Touchpad buyers Ruby understands that Engadget's point's have merit and the issues need to be addressed. Jon Rubinstein sends message to HP staff; Addresses TouchPad reviews | The #1 HP / Palm webOS Community | PreCentral.net Ruby has acknowledged problems and they are trying to address it. I listened to the This is my next podcast and they guy said he's spoken personally to Ruby for more then an hour on a skype call (through touchpad) and that Ruby acknowledged the sluggishness and that they were trying to address it. It's a good thing. It will yield a much better product then burying his head in the sand and acting like nothing's wrong.
    Last edited by SnotBoogie; 07/02/2011 at 02:55 AM.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
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