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  1. mosdl's Avatar
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    #21  
    Review units won't be demo units
    Apps: MyQ for Netflix (Phone/TouchPad), Giantbomb (Phone), Excavate (Reddit/Digg clients for TouchPad)
  2. #22  
    Guys keep in mind, in most retailers there is demo software on tablets that slow them down. I worked at Best Buy, both iPads, all Android tablets and even e-readers have demo software on them that sometimes made the demo a pain to use or caused forced closes and freezing (yes, even on the iPad).

    So don't think this is HP's fault, blame stupid bloatware demo software that all these products are subject to.
    I am, therefore I think
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    Lets rationalize why demo units are laggy, lets find out a reason why the reviews units would also be laggy but not so much. This way we have a reason when TP comes out and doesnt have to invent one then.
    The problem with forums is that it is hard to interpret tone. If you're trying to be sarcastic, I don't see why. If you're not, I apologize, but you need to be more clear about what you're trying to get across.
    I am, therefore I think
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by clayclay350 View Post
    The problem with forums is that it is hard to interpret tone. If you're trying to be sarcastic, I don't see why. If you're not, I apologize, but you need to be more clear about what you're trying to get across.
    The question is why people are so sure that the touchpad sold on launch day will be better than demo or review unit?

    What exactly, on demo and review unit, that makes it so slow?
    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    The question is why people are so sure that the touchpad sold on launch day will be better than demo or review unit?

    What exactly, on demo and review unit, that makes it so slow?
    ---
    galaxy tab tapatalk
    Thanks for clarifying Clevin. I'm not sure why people are assuming the demo unit/review unit will be different from TPs sold on launch. I disagree because shelf displays are usually regular units that are put on demo; like I said, I've worked at Best Buy for a while in computers so I've had to put demo software on devices personally.

    At my best buy, all our display tablets have demo software loaded on them. I'm not sure exactly how much space it takes up, varies by device, OS and manufacturer sometimes, but seeing as tablets have far less memory than laptops/desktops, the demo tends to slow everything down. Often it even interrupts what you're doing to go back to the demo video.

    This same things shown in some of the touchpad demos has happened to me while using demo iPads, the new Galaxy Tab, Acer Iconia, BB Playbook, etc. This slow down is not exclusive to the Touchpad.
    I am, therefore I think
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by nethik View Post
    So I just got back from my local best buy in Northridge, CA after spending about an hour messing with one of the two demo models they had just put on display about an hour before I got there.

    Here's my initial impressions and honest a possible review of the HP TouchPad.

    Let me start off by saying that I'm a huge fan of HP products. Over the past year or two, HP has really switched gears to developing higher quality products than other I've come to expect from mass PC manufacturers (*cough* Dell *cough*). I'm no stranger to somewhat 1st generation products shipped from HP. I've ordered several really expensive products from them, including a $2200 Envy 14 the day they started shipping.

    I also work with tablets on a daily basis as part of my job. I'm currently work on a Xoom, and an iPad. I've messed with the Acer Android tablet floating around the office as well as the iPad 2 and the new Samsung Galaxy Tablet.

    Here's my impressions from putting the tablet through some general heavy use for about an hour.

    My initial impressions were that of amazement. Picking it up, the form of the tablet felt sturdy despite being plastic. The weight of the device was noticeable, but not cumbersome to someone who's used to the weight of the iPad and the Xoom. The Galaxy and iPad 2 feel MUCH lighter however. For some, I know this is negligible, but for me I would not want to have to rely on my hand to prop it up should I be on an airplane or something for long periods of time. I say this because my entire time with the tablet was spent holding it.

    The screen was very clear and bright. The brightness, wireless, bluetooth and other (much needed) settings were all available via the drop down in the upper right part of the UI. The desktop was laid out very simply as I'm sure you've all seen by now. Stacks of cards (currently running programs) were displayed in the center with some quick launch icons displayed at the bottom of the screen.

    Swiping back and forth between the cards was fluid and at a good frame rate. Cards displayed at a high resolution. The email card I minimized was readable which I could see as a huge advantage when switching between multiple email messages. I wanted to start with a clean desktop, so I closed out the cards by flinging them off the screen and was left with the blue background.

    I first checked out the calendar app as I had read on the forums that there was some issues with it loading quickly. The app card launched in the middle of the screen and I waited patiently for about 5-8 seconds for the calendar to open full screen. It quickly displayed some "demo" appointments for a moment (probably from cache) then wiped them out and loaded what appeared to be a slightly different schedule. The loading process felt a bit jerky to be honest. The tablet was not connected to wifi, so it was not syncing anything at the moment. So I'm not sure what it was doing. I clicked on a day with 3 appointments displayed and was presented with a daily schedule a few seconds later. It seemed relatively quick to load, but as I attempted to go back to Month View, it stalled for a moment. I had at first thought it didnt catch my button press so I pushed a second time a second later and still nothing. As I went for a third press it jumped back to Month view before I could touch it. I attempted this process a second time from the initial load of the app, and it worked much quicker. It might have just been because the unit hadn't been broken in yet.

    I twitched out the calendar app for the email one. Email loaded quicker than the calendar app (under 5 seconds) and displayed some "demo" emails for me to skim through. All the emails were organized as I would expect them, but there were no emails with images or other attachments to mess with, so it's hard to see how incoming attachments would interact with the email client. Switching back and forth with the menus to the left of the email message was not as smooth as I would have liked. Dragging each of the panels from left to right was not as responsive as you would expect, but for some reason, just pressing the toggle button (same one you would drag) smoothly animated the panels back and forth noticeably better. Touching a conversation quickly switched the message portion of the window. The text was crisp and very readable. I attempted to reply, forward, and create new messages several times, and every time the new card loaded within about three seconds. A very acceptable speed IMO. The feedback from the keys upon loading a new message however lead to some pretty noticeable input lag on at least 2 of my new messages. It did that thing where you start typing and nothing happens on screen. Then about 2-3 seconds later you start to see the letters being entered in. I should mention that I tried sending a picture from the picture app during this test and that's when I noticed the most input lag from the keyboard. Basic replies and forwards had virtually no lag.

    From there I closed out the email app and went into the picture app (app took about 3 seconds to load). The entire album of about 15-20 pictures had their thumbnails loaded within 3 seconds. The presentation of the app was very nice with a black background and images spread out just far enough so you felt like you could see them fine without losing too much real estate. I selected the first of the images and noticed that it took about 3 seconds to depixelize the image. I swiped my finger across the image to get to the next one and found myself waiting for another image to load. I swiped several more times, each image taking about the same time to load (I was still not connected to WiFi, so I know it wasn't trying to download anything). I kind of felt like I was skimming my girlfriends Facebook library over 3G instead of loading from a SSD (just my opinion). The resolution of the images was fairly high, but I'm not sure how high. I did not see a "properties" button or any way to inspect the image.

    I closed the photo app and went to the instant messaging app. HP has done a good job of integrating all the typical messaging clients (and even a few I'd never heard of) into a single app that you can use to send messages over IM. I integrate all my IM clients on my PCs with Pidgin, so seeing something like this built into a device made me smile. A "demo" GoogleTalk account was demonstrated by default. The chat conversations appeared clear and colorful, with images of each person next to their chat bubbles. I felt it was a very nice configuration and scrolling and switching between the conversations was very very smooth. By far the smoothest scrolling app I'd seen so far.

    From there I closed out the messaging app and checked out the settings section of the applications menu. There were options for setting up VPN configurations, Bluetooth, and a host of other detailed things that you would be hard pressed to find supported on other tablets. I messed with a game for a few moments that was some kind of Geometry Wars meets Air Hockey hybrid. The animations were incredibly smooth, and the colors were very vibrant with strong contrast between the blacks, and neons. I was very impressed.

    I was unable to check out the Browser due to the lack of WiFi at the time. A sales rep and I attempted to connect it, but for whatever reason it wasn't detecting the router. We were both stumped. Another thing that I attempted to do was pair my iPhone 4 with the tablet in the hopes that I would get some kind of link to let me share calls or messaging, but it was no use. Neither my phone nor the tablet could see each other. This was a huge disappointment to me as only the Palm devices would be able to share any kind of link with the tablets (At least at launch. I've been told that HP left the pairing options open to developers for future apps/support/updates).

    It's important to me for a tablet to be able to handle all my messaging when I'm using it. I don't want to have to reach for my phone every time someone texts me while I'm on the couch with my tablet. The vast majority of my day is spent on emails and messaging with co-workers through IM or text. So to be able to centralize all that would be a huge plus for me.

    So having said all that, here's the Pros and Cons I've come up with:

    Pros:

    1) Excellent multi-tasking interface designed around logical work flow and organization.

    2) Standard suite of apps does everything you'd expect it to and more. (Facebook integration with Photo app, adjustable keyboard sizes, etc.)

    3) Messaging app integrates many of the primary IM services into a single window, making carrying conversations and seeing who's online very simple.

    4) Graphics processor appears to run launch title games very well.

    5) Swiping between cards on the desktop was as smooth as you would expect from a 100% optimized OS with a lightning quick frame rate that could stand toe to toe with iPad 2's scrolling experience.

    6) Flash support in the browser is a huge plus just from a functionality perspective. While many worth while sites are completely Flash/HTML5 compatible, you still come across sites that have not made the switch to at least carry an HTML5 version of their site for Apple devices. Flash is not going anywhere anytime soon. Having a tablet that can do both is almost a must for me.

    7) Exhibition Mode and Wireless Charging. While I didn't get to witness either of these first hand, these are both definite pluses for the TouchPad that no other device on the market has right now. They are both signs that HP is looking to the future and attempting to innovate where other tablets are just trying to keep up.


    Cons:

    1) Lack of support for phones other than Palm. (I know there's a large group of users out there that are die hard supporters of Palm and hand held webOS devices. I'm not one of them. I can not see myself getting a Palm device just to get 100% functionality out of my TouchPad)

    2) Frame rate and input lag were VERY noticeable issues at certain (repeatable) instances during general use. The core block of applications for the tablet were more than adequate in terms of function, but I notice things like initial load times, and input lag when loading calendars, emails, etc, and to have it happen constantly was already starting to get annoying.

    3) Photo app load times on individual images on hard disk. I would expect the app to fetch image data for at least one image in front and behind the current image. The tablet appeared to only load once you moved to the next image. (This isnt a huge issue for me, but I dont remember having this issue on other tablets, so I thought I would mention it).

    5) Third party app load times. In general, I noticed that instead of other tablets that launch into some kind of custom load screen (like Angry Birds would do on the Android or iPad tablets) what TouchPad does is load a card with a spinning animation in the middle of it while the app starts to fire up. Things like this are ugly to me, and show a lack of attention to detail that I've come to expect from mobile OS's.


    Overall:

    The first generation adaptation of an (older) OS to a new platform shows around the edges of this device. The physical product feels like something out of HP's mid-range section of hardware. That's not a bad thing, but it leaves you feeling (knowing) that they could have done more for the form factor given more time. I would have liked to have seen something in brushed aluminum like from their Envy series of notebooks, rather than the slick, black plastic that they opted for. The screen is no better or worse from the other competitive products like the iPad or Galaxy (clarity wise, not resolution wise). The OS itself felt very first-gen to me. It was the little things like the load times, and the jerkyness of the calendar that really showed me that it's still a couple beefy patches away from being something truly competitive in the tablet market.

    I was geared up to pick one of these up on Friday, but after getting to mess with it for a good chunk of time, I've decided to wait till it cycles at least one generation.

    **It's worth noting however: I talked to the Best Buy rep that worked on installing the tablets into the display with the HP rep prior to my arrival. The HP rep told him that the Demo models were just that, "Demo Models," and that the retail products would most likely perform a little better due to lack of bloatware loaded into them, and it's constant running of the HP Experience Demo walkthrough that the tablets would default back to should they go untouched for a minute or two.**
    What Best Buy did you go? Nordoff or Porter Ranch?

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    QUOTE from OP
    "The physical product feels like something out of HP's mid-range section of hardware. That's not a bad thing, but it leaves you feeling (knowing) that they could have done more for the form factor given more time. "

    I just wanted to comment on this. The Touchpad was designed by the Palm team from my understanding. After the design was done, HP made the choice to move all design of palm products over to the HP team. So, I think in time after this one generation, you will see that envy-like build quality.
    I actually don't mind the plastic back. I think metals; especially aluminum backs feel very cold and non friendly in the hand, just my opinion. Although plastic can get scratched much easier and is not as strong, I love the smooth feel. I have an iPad 2 and it feels very cold and awkward, the weight distribution also feels back heavy. The edges of my iPad 2 have stronger angles. It feels like I am holding machinery. The TP felt very pleasing, smooth and nature inspired.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by clayclay350 View Post
    Thanks for clarifying Clevin. I'm not sure why people are assuming the demo unit/review unit will be different from TPs sold on launch. I disagree because shelf displays are usually regular units that are put on demo; like I said, I've worked at Best Buy for a while in computers so I've had to put demo software on devices personally.

    At my best buy, all our display tablets have demo software loaded on them. I'm not sure exactly how much space it takes up, varies by device, OS and manufacturer sometimes, but seeing as tablets have far less memory than laptops/desktops, the demo tends to slow everything down. Often it even interrupts what you're doing to go back to the demo video.

    This same things shown in some of the touchpad demos has happened to me while using demo iPads, the new Galaxy Tab, Acer Iconia, BB Playbook, etc. This slow down is not exclusive to the Touchpad.
    I thought 1GB of RAM and dual core CPU should be enough to deal with a demo program. I mean pre plus has only 500 MB of RAM and we can open 50 apps on it without too many card error. Infact people think 500 RAM should be enough on TP as IP-2 has 500 only too.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    I thought 1GB of RAM and dual core CPU should be enough to deal with a demo program. I mean pre plus has only 500 MB of RAM and we can open 50 apps on it without too many card error. Infact people think 500 RAM should be enough on TP as IP-2 has 500 only too.
    Like I said, I'm not sure how much memory the demo takes up. But from what I can tell it's probably very poorly written software. Every single tablet we have in the department slows down because of it. Once I couldn't even demo a Samsung Galaxy Tab because the demo kept interrupting when I opened the web browser. Sorry I can't give you any more technical insight.
    I am, therefore I think
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    I thought 1GB of RAM and dual core CPU should be enough to deal with a demo program. I mean pre plus has only 500 MB of RAM and we can open 50 apps on it without too many card error. Infact people think 500 RAM should be enough on TP as IP-2 has 500 only too.
    It's very likely the demo program doesn't just play nice while you multitask. It's designed to be full screen whenever idle.
  11. #31  
    It was my assumption that the demo program was interactive? and not just a video? Either way, I expect them to run at least 720 if not 1080p video to show crisp and clear demos. In that case, its perfectly understandable for a dual-core mobile device to get a bit laggy when you try to do other things while running an HD video (interactive software?) in the background...
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by WebOSFan12 View Post
    The lag is due to the fact that it is the demo unit and it isn't 7/1 yet...
    I think it's a problem if the demo unit is a bad demo because that's the only thing the consumer is gonna actually use. Especially in a best buy where there are 10 other tablets right there for comparison. If i have a bad test drive i'm unlikely to buy the car.



    My two questions:
    1. What about the Music App and Beats Audio speakers?
    People have made a big deal about it but nobody has commented on the player or the sound from Beats Audio speakers?

    2. App Catalog? What's in the App catalog?


    Side note regarding demos:
    One glaring difference i noticed in the ipad 2 demo units and all the others at best buy like the Galaxy tab 10.1 was the ipad had stuff loaded up on it. all the others had some combination of the following, no music, no videos, no email set up, no documents, no apps. So like you'd click on email and it ask you to set up a google account. you open music and it says not music so you can't even see the app. It makes for a crappy demo. All the while the ipad 2 demos are full of music and trailers and dummy email accounts, photos, you can browse the app catalog and in many stores even install free apps. Most ipad 2 demo units are loaded with apps beyond the kinda core apps like a calender and stuff. I counted 52 apps and games on the demo unit i was using. So i noticed people using the ipad 2s much much longer then the other tablets on display like the htc, xooms, and tab 10.1. HP should take note. sounds like they have a dummy email set up so that's good. but they should have demo movies and audio and access to the app catalog as well to put the best foot forward in the small amount of time they have to grab a customer's attention.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  13. mosdl's Avatar
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    #33  
    The App Catalog probably won't activate until a OTA update I would guess.
    Apps: MyQ for Netflix (Phone/TouchPad), Giantbomb (Phone), Excavate (Reddit/Digg clients for TouchPad)
  14. #34  
    While the demo was annoying, I thought the TP I played with wasn't slowed down at all by it. It was actually quicker than I thought it would be but that might have been one of those "webOS moments". You know when it works like it should as opposed to memory leaks and stuttering.
  15. #35  
    People that think the iOS devices don't lag or crash are crazy. I have a iPhone right now because my OG Pre died and the Veer is too small for me.

    I've had some lag on apps and for the keyboard here and there. Also, have had apps actually freeze and crash way more than my Pre did.
  16. #36  
    Great review that makes me fear the outcome of reviews in the near future.

    Is there a music app?

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  17. #37  
    I was impressed with the tp since I love webos. I am not sure what the public will think cause the ipad2 and new galaxy are soo thin and light
  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by mosdl View Post
    The App Catalog probably won't activate until a OTA update I would guess.
    That seems strange. Maybe it comes what ever day this is supposed to launch but if you can't access the app catalog at launch it seams like a problem. Especially when they are supposed to have all these apps at launch.

    Quote Originally Posted by draztikrhymez View Post
    People that think the iOS devices don't lag or crash are crazy.
    well i've only used a pre minus and a veer in the store and my pre minus has tons of lag and the load time for apps and photos are noticable on both. I've rarely seen that on iphone or ipad 2. I've only seen lag loading apps with a few apps but it's something i hate on my pre. But in general i've never seen lag in a demo of an ipad, ipad 2 or iphone. Then again i don't exactly demo these devices more then once. once i've seen it i don't need to see it again. But i think it's a noticeable issue as it's been around since my pre minus. Whether it's worse or the same. Well i can only state my experience.
    You come at the king. You best not miss.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by SirataXero View Post
    It was my assumption that the demo program was interactive? and not just a video? Either way, I expect them to run at least 720 if not 1080p video to show crisp and clear demos. In that case, its perfectly understandable for a dual-core mobile device to get a bit laggy when you try to do other things while running an HD video (interactive software?) in the background...
    I think its just a video. Doesn't looks interactive to me in those videos. We don't know its HD video, and its likely not, 720p is 1280x720, thats more pixel than touchpad can display.
  20. #40  
    If it makes anyone feel better. The lag on the Xoom was insane when scrolling through the homepages. I'm sure that's just a demo issue but nothing on the touchpad resembled that type of delay. I also noticed "lag" on the ipad 2 buts its disguised really well. You open something and it opens immediately but you can't do anything for a couple of seconds because you can't interact with a bitmap image.
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