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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by rickwestland View Post

    I posted something similar yesterday, only one reply saying few iPad1 owners will be interested in TouchPad as an intermediate solution, but no reason given. I would like to hear more on why this is unrealistic.
    This, here, is the challenge. Not just with HP, but anyone in the market.

    Their only reason is simply this: It's not Apple.

    People buy Apple because their friends have Apple. It's a "fashion statement" to them. It's a trend.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    ...That depends a LOT on the user. There are likely a lot of people viewing the tablets as a replacement for a netbook or laptop for their needs rather than as an additional device like a lot of us on the forums would view it. It's even possible some view it as a replacement for their entire desktop because, if we're being honest, a $300 tower to web surf, email, and type up documents or a $500 portable device to do all the same things. This couldn't replace my desktop or laptop but I actually strain my machines. The average consumer doesn't and something with a small footprint and high portability could be appealing to them. A handy cap for the iPad has been that it requires a PC to support it. That's changing with iOS5 but iOS5 isn't here yet and the average consumer probably isn't following the tech blogs to know what was announced for changes. So for now, the TouchPad could also using the selling point of being able to operate as it's own machine.
    Don't know if she's an "average user" (she's definitely no power user), but you're describing my wife on this one.

    She wants the TP (though she's waiting to decide if she wants the 3g version), she wants the keyboard, she wants the case, she wants the touchpad. She wants all of those because the TP is basically replacing her laptop, in a more portable manner. She wants it to be her Kindle when she's away from her desk (cover), and her laptop when she's at her desk (TS, Keyboard).

    She doesn't even use the TS I bought her for her Pixi, but she wants it for this. And no, she's not choosing TP because it's what I want, she came very close to buying an iPad several weeks ago, and then when she heard about the TP, she decided to wait. I asked her why she didn't want a iPad, and she just said "I really don't know, I just want to see the competition".

    When she saw the introduction of TTS, that pretty much sold her over the iPad (but that was precluded in the OP). She asked "could I do that with the HP and a different phone?" No. She then asked "could I do that with a different pad, and the Palm phone?" No. She then knew what she wanted.

    Is she the "average customer"? I don't know, I'm sure some of what I like has rubbed off on her, but she's not averse at all to getting rid of her Pixie. She now wants a Pre 3. She was very much "wait and see" on a tablet computer in general, and now wants a TP. Neither of those decisions came from me.

    Sorry naysayers, but there is plenty going for this combination.
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post
    ...5 Because it's not Apple
    ...
    Finally, and I can't stress this enough, there are people that just don't like Apple. It could be an aesthetic thing, a bad experience, under-dog syndrome, a dislike of Steve Jobs, whatever the case may be, they'll buy something simply because it's not Apple. This same mentality holds true to "not MS". For the same reason that some people latch onto Android (not MS, linux, OSS, etc.,.) they'll latch onto the TouchPad and webOS.
    I don't know that it's really "dislike", but yes, there is some "rooting for someone besides the big dog" going on. It's as American as apple pie.

    It's funny that the naysayers on her keep pooh-poohing that notion, yet everytime a close to comparable devices comes on the market, whether it's competing with an iPhone or an iPad, the industry is abuzz about the possibility of an "i-killer". Why? I think it's in the American genes to be wary of the "big dog" in an industry, especially when they control that much.
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by rickwestland View Post
    ...
    I posted something similar yesterday, only one reply saying few iPad1 owners will be interested in TouchPad as an intermediate solution, but no reason given. I would like to hear more on why this is unrealistic.
    I didn't respond, but I agreed with the person who did.

    Unless a person is just flat out dissatisfied with the iPad1, I don't see enough compelling reasons to give up that investment. Even fewer if they've bought a lot of apps and have gotten used to "needing" those apps.
  5. #145  
    I'm a big fan of webOS myself, but I'm honestly not sure what they can do to make the Touchpad seem better than the iPad to an average consumer.

    I mean, talk all you want about Synergy, multitasking, and the other features exclusive to the Touchpad, but are they really enough to dissuade an average consumer from getting the device everyone else has? I'm not sure they are.

    Personally, I'd have undercut on price by $50 for each SKU, but not sure that'd have been enough either.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    I'm a big fan of webOS myself, but I'm honestly not sure what they can do to make the Touchpad seem better than the iPad to an average consumer.

    I mean, talk all you want about Synergy, multitasking, and the other features exclusive to the Touchpad, but are they really enough to dissuade an average consumer from getting the device everyone else has? I'm not sure they are.

    Personally, I'd have undercut on price by $50 for each SKU, but not sure that'd have been enough either.
    I would like to ask: Why does anything have to be "better"?

    What happened to finding a product that suits your own needs for what you do?
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    It's funny that the naysayers on her keep pooh-poohing that notion, yet everytime a close to comparable devices comes on the market, whether it's competing with an iPhone or an iPad, the industry is abuzz about the possibility of an "i-killer". Why?
    We’re not pooh poohing it. We all know it happens, and we know it happens because 1) Steve Jobs is a narcissistic ******bag and 2) most of the people that own apple products are pretty close behind him in their actions causing most other people to not want to be associated with it.

    That said, the phenomena that you keep falling back on is not *that* big. Or at least, it hasn’t been shown to be universally big enough to make WebOS successful in the past.

    Consumers didn’t flock to the original pre when it was released as the alternative to the iphone (with lackluster hardware and the OS as a one-trick pony.) I fail to see how it will happen this time around with a similar situation.

    -Suntan
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    I would like to ask: Why does anything have to be "better"?

    What happened to finding a product that suits your own needs for what you do?
    Sorry, but if you think that's enough to make someone choose a Touchpad instead of an iPad, then <I disagree>. The iPad is the clear market leader. That's enough for most. People want what's perceived as best, and in the general population, the perception is the iPad is far above and beyond anything else. Fair or not, if you want to get the average user to switch away from that, you DO need something that is clearly better, and that you can show off in a way they're going to care about and understand why it's better.

    I'd choose a Touchpad over an iPad, most likely, (and a Windows tablet over both, but that's just me), but I just don't think there's enough there for the average consumer to choose the Touchpad.

    The features that the Touchpad has that the iPad doesn't, just aren't likely to matter enough to an average user, unfortunately.
    Last edited by HelloNNNewman; 06/14/2011 at 05:54 PM. Reason: removed insult
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    I would like to ask: Why does anything have to be "better"?

    What happened to finding a product that suits your own needs for what you do?
    Because the sad fact is that most average consumers donít have the self drive to actually identify what that is.

    -Suntan
  10. #150  
    Quote Originally Posted by jhoff80 View Post
    The features that the Touchpad has that the iPad doesn't, just aren't likely to matter enough to an average user, unfortunately.
    Itís more than just that.

    Like it or not, there *are* features found on the ipad that the average consumer values more than what they see available on the TP.

    -Suntan
  11. #151  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I didn't respond, but I agreed with the person who did.

    Unless a person is just flat out dissatisfied with the iPad1, I don't see enough compelling reasons to give up that investment. Even fewer if they've bought a lot of apps and have gotten used to "needing" those apps.
    I didn't say they need to give up iPad1, they don't see iPad2 offering much more/new to them than the iPad 1 they already have, so why not try something different and better (than their slowly aging iPad1) while waiting for iPad 3? Hopefully, they will grow to love webOS and forget iPad 3
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    It’s more than just that.

    Like it or not, there *are* features found on the ipad that the average consumer values more than what they see available on the TP.
    I didn't mean to imply that there weren't, I just meant that what the Touchpad has doesn't seem like it's enough to overcome the iPad's value in the general populace, whether functionally or even just perceived.
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    #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    We’re not pooh poohing it. We all know it happens, and we know it happens because 1) Steve Jobs is a narcissistic ******bag and 2) most of the people that own apple products are pretty close behind him in their actions causing most other people to not want to be associated with it.

    That said, the phenomena that you keep falling back on is not *that* big. Or at least, it hasn’t been shown to be universally big enough to make WebOS successful in the past.

    Consumers didn’t flock to the original pre when it was released as the alternative to the iphone (with lackluster hardware and the OS as a one-trick pony.) I fail to see how it will happen this time around with a similar situation.

    -Suntan
    We can't keep falling back on the old reliable "original Pre" argument. There were a great many reasons the Pre failed to garner the market and subsequently those reasons impacted sales of future devices. So initially poor hardware and high returns frustrated the sales people which caused them to redirect people to other devices and keep sales low. Quirky marketing and a lack of commitment from carriers didn't help. But the Palm connection is broken for this device. Most of the distribution channels are regular retail. Either there won't be sales people to taint the well, or the sales people will be on the computer side of the store that has had limited exposure to previous webOS products.

    In my own experience in Best Buy, the sales people don't give a crap about selling a tablet. I've yet to see anyone demoing one to a customer or talking about benefits. So it's going to be up to the customer to play with it and see how it fits them. The sale usually goes like this "Excuse me, do you have an iPad2 32GB 3G in stock" "No, but I can check another store". Not "No, but we do have a Motorola Xoom if you'd like to see that."
  14. #154  
    Well, in my eyes, it won't come down to who has better features.

    It will come down to how well the Touchpad is marketed and how it is received from the general population.

    Time will tell.

    HP is smart and they have the power. All we can do is watch.
  15. #155  
    I'm really anxious to see what apps they will unleash beginning in July for TP.

    if it does come with full doc creation apps and skype integration standard that'll be sweet.

    what would be even sweeter would be to add some Adobe like products and something to counter garage band.

    having apps like this wil really make it a viable alternative to the IP... At least I'd be much more apt to buy it.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by nhavar View Post

    In my own experience in Best Buy, the sales people don't give a crap about selling a tablet. I've yet to see anyone demoing one to a customer or talking about benefits. So it's going to be up to the customer to play with it and see how it fits them. The sale usually goes like this "Excuse me, do you have an iPad2 32GB 3G in stock" "No, but I can check another store". Not "No, but we do have a Motorola Xoom if you'd like to see that."
    Yea, it's actually pretty funny. The people manning the Apple section want to push you to buy the Macs more than they want you to bother with the iPads.
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by kjb86 View Post
    Well, in my eyes, it won't come down to who has better features.

    It will come down to how well the Touchpad is marketed and how it is received from the general population.

    Time will tell.

    HP is smart and they have the power. All we can do is watch.
    The problem is nobody in this thread (and there are some very smart people that have chimed in) can think of a way to market the TouchPad to the mass market without making them think "oh, so it's kind of like an iPad."
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    The problem is nobody in this thread (and there are some very smart people that have chimed in) can think of a way to market the TouchPad to the mass market without making them think "oh, so it's kind of like an iPad."
    Because there really is no way to market it to the consumer market without doing that. The consumer market is full of "stupid" people that don't look into things, they just believe whatever they are told as long as it sounds plausible. After all, as far as the consumer market is concerned, Apple invented smartphones and tablets.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    The problem is nobody in this thread (and there are some very smart people that have chimed in) can think of a way to market the TouchPad to the mass market without making them think "oh, so it's kind of like an iPad."
    The problem in this thread too is that no one consider themselves an average consumer, yet answer for them.
    They need to dumb themselves down a notch. Oh wait, maybe they are with all the ipad comparrisons going on.
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    Because there really is no way to market it to the consumer market without doing that. The consumer market is full of "stupid" people that don't look into things, they just believe whatever they are told as long as it sounds plausible. After all, as far as the consumer market is concerned, Apple invented smartphones and tablets.
    No argument here. It's going to be a tough launch for HP because of that.
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