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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by sapient2k7 View Post
    The thing is ... wireless charging is an important differentiator with WebOS devices.
    I would agree. A touchstone charger included with the tablet is something that the average consumer would see an advantage with.

    A lot of tablets find a home sitting on a half wall or a counter top. Having a touchstone charger is something the average person could look at and imagine how it would work in their situation. They would then image the competitors unit just laying flat on the counter, with a cord always hanging around waiting to be plugged in.

    Much more relevent for the average consumer than having to sit there, in the store, and imagine how cards would allow them to cut and paste text from a website to an email...

    -Suntan
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    I would agree. A touchstone charger included with the tablet is something that the average consumer would see an advantage with.

    A lot of tablets find a home sitting on a half wall or a counter top. Having a touchstone charger is something the average person could look at and imagine how it would work in their situation. They would then image the competitors unit just laying flat on the counter, with a cord always hanging around waiting to be plugged in.

    Much more relevent for the average consumer than having to sit there, in the store, and imagine how cards would allow them to cut and paste text from a website to an email...

    -Suntan
    That's why I said HP should've include the TouchStone with TouchPad package. And if you want to extra TouchStone, charge them whatever you want for it.
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    I think you are misunderstanding some of the mentions of Synergy. I think it being mentioned as the feature in WebOS, not an investment in the eco system. One of the many things keeping me with WebOS is the way "Synergy" brings together everything on my phone.

    The bridge of Synergy would be that people are already using these services, but they don't communicate well together without WebOS pulling the data in and managing it.


    At least this is my enjoyment of WebOS Synergy.
    I'm not misunderstanding their definition of it. Every modern mobile platform does this. Albeit differently, but they all manage data and multiple accounts quite well.

    My point is those features being equal (separated by a matter of taste) again I'm going to reiterate the OP. The touchpad offers nothing compelling to the average consumer. HP's ecosystem and app selection is anemic at best. Data management greatness sounds great on paper but just like "true multitasking," it's a nonissue at best, a failed marketing push at worst.

    I'll say it again, for an average consumer, the iPad, at the same price point, is a winner everytime.

    For whatever reason, this feels like Palm all over again but on a greater scale and with a few more bucks. Trying to sell a tablet @ the same pricepoint as the iPad, without the consumption based apps and material that you need for these devices. They don't have any idea on what to do with the tablet, all they know is "we need one." Well, I hope it's a success, but i'm afraid they are going to battle with the market leader @ the same price, without the benefits.
    Last edited by Crackbone; 06/14/2011 at 12:59 PM.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    I'm not misunderstanding their definition of it. Every modern mobile platform does this. Albeit differently, but they all manage data and multiple accounts quite well.

    My point is those features being equal (separated by a matter of taste) again I'm going to reiterate the OP. The touchpad offers nothing compelling to the average consumer. HP's ecosystem and app selection is anemic at best. Data management greatness sounds great on paper but just like "true multitasking," it's a nonissue at best, a failed marketing push at worst.

    I'll say it again, for an average consumer, the iPad, at the same price point, is a winner everytime.

    For whatever reason, this feels like Palm all over again but on a greater scale and with a few more bucks. Trying to sell a tablet @ the same pricepoint as the iPad, without the consumption based apps and material that you need for these devices. They don't have any idea on what to do with the tablet, all they know is "we need one." Well, I hope it's a success, but i'm afraid they are going to battle with the market leader @ the same price, without the benefits.
    Ok, let's reformulate the question: what would make average consumer buy the Touchpad over the iPad?
    Newness Developments apps:

  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And yes indeed, that would be a mistake, if that were the only factor involved.

    It isn't. There were several others mentioned. Yes, the TouchPad most definitely should be marketed to those folks who don't want/can't use an iPad (there can be a number of reasons for this, but I won't go into that).
    Because of that, it is a valid reason why one would choose a TP over an iPad which was the original question.

    HP should be exploiting every reason a consumer might want to buy one over another tablet (not just the iPad, I might mention).

    It's also worth noting that the OP precluded discussion of two of the biggest selling points. That probably should have been a big indicator that it was a troll thread.
    Well I'm not sure he's replied since(haven't seen a post from him) and this thread veered off a little anyway. So it's probably OK to bring them back up. I still say that HP better not let any store try to sell with no working display model. There's no way to show these points if all you can see is the box or a dummy model. But I also think they should have knocked off $50 to get people to pay attention.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  6. #126  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The average consumer isn't going to buy a Touchstone nor a keyboard. One of the main reasons to use a tablet is expressly not to have a computing device sitting on your desk taking up space. These are accessories that some users will be willing to pay for but most will not.

    That's why they call them accessories. That's why no tablet comes with these things. They aren't differentiators for the average consumer if the average consumer isn't going to ever use one. So as to not to set-off the Literal net Topic Patrol - No, these will not make the average consumer choose TP over iPad.
    I don't know about the keyboard, I've seen lots of average consumers buy a bluetooth keyboard for their iPads.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  7. #127  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Ok, let's reformulate the question: what would make average consumer buy the Touchpad over the iPad?
    I'd love to hear people here explain this as well. Because short of slapping a fruit sticker on the back, I can't think of much.
  8. #128  
    I just mentioned 2 things, although I'm betting they will try holding onto the price. But like the Galaxy Tab, I'm also betting the price will be reduced if they don't manage to sell enough. Which is why HP really needs to make the TouchPad stand out.
    HP has officially ruined it's own platform and kicked webOS loyalists and early TouchPad adopters to the curb. You think after you drop it like a hot potato and mention it made no money and is costing you money, anyone else wants it??? Way to go HP!!

    And some people are fools to keep believing their hype. HP has shown they will throw webOS under the bus and people are still having faith in them??? News flash: if it's own company won't stand behind it, it's finished!
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    I'm not misunderstanding their definition of it. Every modern mobile platform does this. Albeit differently, but they all manage data and multiple accounts quite well.
    No they don't. I have an iOS device and I can say first hand that it handles platform management like **** compared to my Pre. Unless all your accounts run off Exchange servers, it does not handle platform management nearly as well as Synergy.

    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The average consumer isn't going to buy a Touchstone nor a keyboard. One of the main reasons to use a tablet is expressly not to have a computing device sitting on your desk taking up space. These are accessories that some users will be willing to pay for but most will not.

    That's why they call them accessories. That's why no tablet comes with these things. They aren't differentiators for the average consumer if the average consumer isn't going to ever use one. So as to not to set-off the Literal net Topic Patrol - No, these will not make the average consumer choose TP over iPad.
    That depends a LOT on the user. There are likely a lot of people viewing the tablets as a replacement for a netbook or laptop for their needs rather than as an additional device like a lot of us on the forums would view it. It's even possible some view it as a replacement for their entire desktop because, if we're being honest, a $300 tower to web surf, email, and type up documents or a $500 portable device to do all the same things. This couldn't replace my desktop or laptop but I actually strain my machines. The average consumer doesn't and something with a small footprint and high portability could be appealing to them. A handy cap for the iPad has been that it requires a PC to support it. That's changing with iOS5 but iOS5 isn't here yet and the average consumer probably isn't following the tech blogs to know what was announced for changes. So for now, the TouchPad could also using the selling point of being able to operate as it's own machine.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    No they don't. I have an iOS device and I can say first hand that it handles platform management like **** compared to my Pre. Unless all your accounts run off Exchange servers, it does not handle platform management nearly as well as Synergy.
    It handle's it well enough for the average consumer, again, who we are talking about here.

    Secondly, that has more weight when it comes to a smartphone, but i'm not yet convinced that tablets are business first, recreation second.

    I believe it's the other way around, and the 10s of millions of iPads sold would agree with me.

    Give me one compelling reason the average Joe is going to buy a Touchpad @ the same price as an iPad.
  11. #131  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    The average consumer isn't going to buy a Touchstone nor a keyboard. One of the main reasons to use a tablet is expressly not to have a computing device sitting on your desk taking up space. These are accessories that some users will be willing to pay for but most will not.
    I disagree. Even the most minimalist of users needs to charge the thing.

    That means you either you pull out a USB charger every other day, or you leave one plugged in and just drop the tablet off for a charge before taking it back to the couch, bedroom, back yard, wherever.

    As such, most people (even the ones that adamantly refuse to have a big PC out in plain site) usually have a “location” that the tablet will live at when it isn’t being used.

    The touchstone is good feature that is a better option than any other tablet out there. If it were included in the cost of the TP, it would be a differentiating feature that would/could be used to make the TP stand apart.

    Further, it is a feature that even a BB clerk could do an above average job of showing off and something that J6P could comprehend in under 30 seconds.

    Although I do agree that the average customer likely won’t bother to buy one if they have to shell out $70 for one in addition to the full price of the TP.

    As for a BT keyboard, I agree that there is not much differentiation there. Every tablet has one of those, any existing BT keyboard anyone has will (read: should) work already, and on top of that ASUS completely shamed every other maker to the point that they don’t even want to have their keyboards shown on the display area next to the Transformer.

    -Suntan
  12. #132  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    It handle's it well enough for the average consumer, again, who we are talking about here.

    Secondly, that has more weight when it comes to a smartphone, but i'm not yet convinced that tablets are business first, recreation second.

    I believe it's the other way around, and the 10s of millions of iPads sold would agree with me.

    Give me one compelling reason the average Joe is going to buy a Touchpad @ the same price as an iPad.
    An LG Dare (a feature phone) handles it well enough for the "average" consumer, that's not really saying much.

    That shows that the iPad is recreation first, business second. If HP does a good job with the TouchPad they could push it as being equal for both because there are tablets that exist in the business world that have been there well before the iPad showed up for the consumer world.

    We can argue about what reasons are compelling all day. What it's going to come down to for the "average Joe" or Jane is going to be how well HP handles advertising, promos, and making sure that proper hands-on demos happen in major store locations.
  13. #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    An LG Dare (a feature phone) handles it well enough for the "average" consumer, that's not really saying much.

    That shows that the iPad is recreation first, business second. If HP does a good job with the TouchPad they could push it as being equal for both because there are tablets that exist in the business world that have been there well before the iPad showed up for the consumer world.

    We can argue about what reasons are compelling all day. What it's going to come down to for the "average Joe" or Jane is going to be how well HP handles advertising, promos, and making sure that proper hands-on demos happen in major store locations.
    How are they going to push it as being equal when their app selection is terrible? They can't.

    Those tablets are a totally different type of animal, and you know that. It's like comparing a PC to a smartphone, technically both are computers, they both have processors, they both have screens, they have some overlapping functions, but are designed to do two different things.

    I'm all for HP making a splash, I was huge into WebOS before I realized that Palm had no clue on how to market itself, nor did it know how to push a platform. I was weary when HP got involved, and i'm more concerned now.

    I just feel that HP in general is going the wrong way with all of this, and the touchpad is going to be another bomb to be added to the pile of them. The Pre, Pixi, the Pre 2, soon to be added, the Veer.
  14. #134  
    for the average consumer, I think they would really have a difficult time choosing TP over IP. Simply due to "what all their friends use".

    how many people do you know who use apple phones and tabs? In my circle I'd literally say 80% of my friends have iphones/pads. 15% andriod, 4.99% non smart phone, and ME at 0.01% on webos. I am the only person I know (and I know a lot of people because I run a small biz) that uses a palm phone.

    hopefully hp will be able to make this a nice piece of hardware and finely tuned software that offers a tremenduous user experience.

    I believe that webOS has a chance to shine as a easy to use, yet powerful, OS.
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    I'd love to hear people here explain this as well. Because short of slapping a fruit sticker on the back, I can't think of much.
    Because it's cool, HP has Dr. Dre, Pacquiao, Miranda Cosgrove, and more to come.
    It's new, ipad is so yesterday's news.
    HP is smarter, are you a droid or a fruitcake?
    ...and bigger, of course it's black, and everyone knows that once you go black you never go back.

    Everybody's on with HP, if you don't have a touchpad then where are you?
    With the touchpad, the world is in the palm of your hands.
    Last edited by champiful; 06/14/2011 at 02:41 PM. Reason: addition
  16. #136  
    Quote Originally Posted by Orion Antares View Post
    That depends a LOT on the user. There are likely a lot of people viewing the tablets as a replacement for a netbook or laptop for their needs rather than as an additional device like a lot of us on the forums would view it. It's even possible some view it as a replacement for their entire desktop because, if we're being honest, a $300 tower to web surf, email, and type up documents or a $500 portable device to do all the same things. This couldn't replace my desktop or laptop but I actually strain my machines. The average consumer doesn't and something with a small footprint and high portability could be appealing to them. A handy cap for the iPad has been that it requires a PC to support it. That's changing with iOS5 but iOS5 isn't here yet and the average consumer probably isn't following the tech blogs to know what was announced for changes. So for now, the TouchPad could also using the selling point of being able to operate as it's own machine.
    When I can get a TP, it will replace the netbook (blah I hate the screen on the netbook), it will also replace a lot of my at home desktop use (I spend 8-9 hours a day in front of a desktop at work). I will still use my desktop at home, but as you said, for my basic day to day stuff when I get home it'll be the TP, I don't want to go home and sit in front of another computer.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  17. #137  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    How are they going to push it as being equal when their app selection is terrible? They can't.

    Those tablets are a totally different type of animal, and you know that. It's like comparing a PC to a smartphone, technically both are computers, they both have processors, they both have screens, they have some overlapping functions, but are designed to do two different things.

    I'm all for HP making a splash, I was huge into WebOS before I realized that Palm had no clue on how to market itself, nor did it know how to push a platform. I was weary when HP got involved, and i'm more concerned now.

    I just feel that HP in general is going the wrong way with all of this, and the touchpad is going to be another bomb to be added to the pile of them. The Pre, Pixi, the Pre 2, soon to be added, the Veer.
    HP has said they will launch the TouchPad with all "essential" apps. Just because the iPad has tons of redundant apps ballooning it's app store size does not mean it will have a better selection.

    Yea, if we're comparing the them to the iPad. If HP does a good job with the TouchPad though that can be a different comparison entirely.

    If you're so concerned then attempt to approach HP rather than complaining about it on an unofficial forums. The people at HP "know" what they are doing. Whether or not their methods work we, who are not involved in HP's decisions, will have to wait and see.

    Personally, I'm waiting to see what the TouchPad is capable of before I buy a tablet. If it falls short I'll likely be getting an Android tablet.

    Quote Originally Posted by virtualkyr View Post
    for the average consumer, I think they would really have a difficult time choosing TP over IP. Simply due to "what all their friends use".

    how many people do you know who use apple phones and tabs? In my circle I'd literally say 80% of my friends have iphones/pads. 15% andriod, 4.99% non smart phone, and ME at 0.01% on webos. I am the only person I know (and I know a lot of people because I run a small biz) that uses a palm phone.

    hopefully hp will be able to make this a nice piece of hardware and finely tuned software that offers a tremenduous user experience.

    I believe that webOS has a chance to shine as a easy to use, yet powerful, OS.
    If the "what all me friends are using" argument was valid then the iPad would be losing ground to the newer Android tablets right now. I can say that "literally" in my circle it's 75% Android phones, 20% iPhone, and 5% assorted others.
  18. nhavar's Avatar
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    #138  
    1 Look/feel
    2 Intuitive interaction
    3 Synergy
    4 Cleanliness
    5 Because it's not Apple

    Not everyone is quite the fan of the feel of the iPad/iPad2. While lite and thin might appeal to some and brushed aluminum is all the rage, it's just not for everyone. Look at the refrigerator section of Best Buy and you'll see what I mean.

    webOS is pretty easy to use out of the box. My kids and wife were up on it in minutes and while my wife was skeptical for about a year, she finally converted and refuses to switch to another phone. I don't see the TouchPad being any different. One example is looking at how to find something in webOS versus iOS. Just type is always on, just start typing or from card view tap on the Just type search box. It took 6 months for anyone in my house to realize that iOS had a search.

    Synergy is really the thing that has kept me with webOS. The ease with which I can do certain activities that take other people 3-4 or more steps... I'll trade number of apps for Synergy any day.

    webOS is clean. People pick up an iPad and they see the icons filling the screen and it's just a mess (grid or not), they pick up an Android tablet and they see the widgets people scatter across the screens. With webOS you see the nice background and a simple launcher. That promotes exploration. Then even after they have stuff open the UI is still clean and uncluttered. Everything has it's place.

    Finally, and I can't stress this enough, there are people that just don't like Apple. It could be an aesthetic thing, a bad experience, under-dog syndrome, a dislike of Steve Jobs, whatever the case may be, they'll buy something simply because it's not Apple. This same mentality holds true to "not MS". For the same reason that some people latch onto Android (not MS, linux, OSS, etc.,.) they'll latch onto the TouchPad and webOS.
  19. #139  
    Quote Originally Posted by virtualkyr View Post
    for the average consumer, I think they would really have a difficult time choosing TP over IP. Simply due to "what all their friends use".

    how many people do you know who use apple phones and tabs? In my circle I'd literally say 80% of my friends have iphones/pads. 15% andriod, 4.99% non smart phone, and ME at 0.01% on webos.
    All true, but many already own an iPad. HP shouldn't just target people new to tablets.

    One weakness of iPad2 is that it's not a big enough upgrade from iPad1, I know plenty of people who own an iPad1 but are not interested to get an iPad2, most claim they will hold onto their iPad1 until the next gen of iPad; but I am pretty sure some will get a new tablet before that. That's a big group HP can target and sell TouchPad as a better, faster and most importantly, different tablet than their iPad1. It's not going to be a replacement, but something they can have along with their iPad1.

    In addition, this particular group probably care less about the weight, and can always fall back to their iPad1 for any app not available on webOS. That makes it easier to sell TouchPad to them.

    I posted something similar yesterday, only one reply saying few iPad1 owners will be interested in TouchPad as an intermediate solution, but no reason given. I would like to hear more on why this is unrealistic.
  20. #140  
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phone Diva View Post
    I still say that HP better not let any store try to sell with no working display model. There's no way to show these points if all you can see is the box or a dummy model.
    I'm 100% in agreement on you on that one. I don't know about long-term, but my suspicion is that short term, they will ensure they're working. Most companies won't spend the sort of money they've spent on the displays booths without ensuring that the demos work.
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