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  1. #81  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    Your feeling is totally wrong. They have the best DevRel Team out there. I feel at home with everyone at Palm (definitely far, far away on how other platforms manage their devs).

    What should they do? Pay devs for doing apps? Sorry, that's totally wrong. They must feel the need of developing for webOS, and you can only do that with devices sold.

    webOS is years ahead of the competition (talking about innovation), and that has it's negatives. Look what's happening at the apps market: all the media companies are moving from native to HTML5 for a reason, Microsoft is moving to HTML5 for Windows8, Chrome OS is HTML5.

    But there are tons of "old school" devs that feel that webDev is not "true development", there are also tons of devs that don't know what's webOS.

    Believe me, there are a lot of dev companies out there that don't look around to see what's happening, and they don't see the big picture. They only go to established markets.
    Perhaps you are correct, but that doesn't mean anything to me as a consumer. So you feel comfortable with them, that's great. But that's not what I said. "Court" is what I said.

    I believe that many companies do precisely what you claim, because they want to monetize their investments of time and resources, and that's understandable as well.

    If there are tons of developers that don't know what webOS is, then I rest my case.

    Again, I want HP to do this right, but here we are, over a year after the purchase was announced, and we have 1 smartphone that's niche, we have a tablet coming out (yay!) without any real ecosystem to support it and the top of the line smartphone that's still has no street date.

    As an addendum, I'm going to add to my previous post, the biggest problem is that HP doesn't appear to know it's competition very well, or care. They can try to pick off the bottom feeders, but what keeps those very customers from going to the established platforms, with mature development and tons of applications?
    Last edited by Crackbone; 06/16/2011 at 12:41 PM.
  2. #82  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    Perhaps you are correct, but that doesn't mean anything to me as a consumer.

    I believe that many companies do precisely what you claim, because they want to monetize their investments of time and resources, and that's understandable as well.
    Of course that doesn't mean anything to you as consumer, the same way as you as consumer don't know what's going on the backstage, but anyways you are doing your statements about the topic. If you're wrong, let others that know about the topic correct you, because you're spreading wrong words about this.

    About monetizing their investments... what would allow a company monetize their investments best than being stablished on every platform with the same development? That only can be done with web technologies. Thankfully they're starting to see that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    If there are tons of developers that don't know what webOS is, then I rest my case.
    And if there are devs that don't know what webOS is is because 300.000 apps aren't done by 10 companies, and a lot of those 300.000 apps are from people who have tried to get luck from the big numbers (without luck, I must say. Did you know that, statistically talking, more than a half of those 300,000 apps don't get more than 600 bucks each year of billing?). That's the reason because every day you find in the App Store a lot of software going to freeware from payware: it's abandoned software.

    Other apps (mostly free), are from devs that are hired from non-technological companies to bring their lil' piece of myth to the App Store, without doing research to know what their target is, and what their target should be: just they want their app on the iPhone, and/or Android. Do you really think those companies ever know what webOS is?

    It's not as easy as well done or wrong done.
    Last edited by deCorvett; 06/16/2011 at 01:02 PM.
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  3. #83  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    ...the biggest problem is that HP doesn't appear to know it's competition very well, or care. They can try to pick off the bottom feeders, but what keeps those very customers from going to the established platforms, with mature development and tons of applications?
    Speaking strictly from the perspective of the TouchPad's launch (since really, why are we all here for anyway?), how can anyone say anything about HP's strategy?

    They announced the product on February, recognized the need for devs to be on-board and promised unparalleled support, to say nothing of setting a Summer launch date. From those, tell me which one they haven't yet delivered?

    I'm all for holding any company's feet to the proverbial fire (God knows how we all kept the pressure, FWIW, on Palm), but until these tablets are on the market and in hand of consumers, will we ever know if any of this worked or not.

    Personally, I think in 3-6 months from now we'll all have a much better picture on webOS' outlook. But yes, it is fun to speculate.
  4. #84  
    Quote Originally Posted by Carioca_FL View Post
    Speaking strictly from the perspective of the TouchPad's launch (since really, why are we all here for anyway?), how can anyone say anything about HP's strategy?

    They announced the product on February, recognized the need for devs to be on-board and promised unparalleled support, to say nothing of setting a Summer launch date. From those, tell me which one they haven't yet delivered?

    I'm all for holding any company's feet to the proverbial fire (God knows how we all kept the pressure, FWIW, on Palm), but until these tablets are on the market and in hand of consumers, will we ever know if any of this worked or not.

    Personally, I think in 3-6 months from now we'll all have a much better picture on webOS' outlook. But yes, it is fun to speculate.
    It is fun to speculate. And yes, I am cynical. I've been burned before as a end user, and I don't want to be burned again.

    I think the point is, while i'm happy to see webOS enter the market again, I see it as the same song and dance. I hope i'm wrong, and wish them the best of luck, but it just seems like they are running the same set of plays they ran before. I want to see them execute.
  5. #85  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    It is fun to speculate. And yes, I am cynical. I've been burned before as a end user, and I don't want to be burned again.

    I think the point is, while i'm happy to see webOS enter the market again, I see it as the same song and dance. I hope i'm wrong, and wish them the best of luck, but it just seems like they are running the same set of plays they ran before. I want to see them execute.
    And, apparently, nothing is going to convince you otherwise, including hearing from a developer that HP is doing what you said you want them to do.

    Of course, that's the same old "song and dance" ... because you feel shorted.

    Sorry if I'm sounding harsh, but what you're doing really is "the same old song and dance" - from the disgruntled users and former users on here.

    You stated what you'd like to see them do. A person that has reason to know says that's what they're doing. You dismiss it. Why? Because you're disappointed.

    Too bad. If you can't be convinced with the truth, then what's the point of coming and posting?
  6. #86  
    ecosystem is not built by an HP devrel team nor a limited number of developers.

    hp just needs to make good sales and devs will come. Apple's devrel is bad, but so what?

    just find ways to sell the thing in millions quick. That's all they need to do.
  7. #87  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    hearing from a developer that HP is doing what you said you want them to do.
    So I'm starting to look like someone with criteria... what a strange sensation!!!
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  8. #88  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    And, apparently, nothing is going to convince you otherwise, including hearing from a developer that HP is doing what you said you want them to do.

    Of course, that's the same old "song and dance" ... because you feel shorted.

    Sorry if I'm sounding harsh, but what you're doing really is "the same old song and dance" - from the disgruntled users and former users on here.

    You stated what you'd like to see them do. A person that has reason to know says that's what they're doing. You dismiss it. Why? Because you're disappointed.

    Too bad. If you can't be convinced with the truth, then what's the point of coming and posting?
    OF course I can be convinced. I was convinced once. And I read his statement, and one developer doesn't make it true.

    While you might be tired of hearing from us, we've tried the webOS waters, we know what it is, and we've moved on to other platforms. We know what the competition is as well, and therefore I think we are better suited to comment on the state of webOS in comparison with these other platforms than some that would blindly follow the HP line.

    We wouldn't have bought into webOS if we didn't see something there in the first place. Unfortunately we've watched the powers that be bungle what could've been.

    I'm willing to jump back into the water headfirst, but I need to see HP do somethings that will make them competitive. I'm not seeing it yet. Talk is cheap. I'd venture to guess that there are many here with the same attitude I have.
  9. #89  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    An argument can certainly be made that Apple's developer relations efforts are bad. They never talk to you. They make the rules as they go along. They never give out free hardware. You have to pay a lot to go to WWDC (although the session videos are usually free to developers). Steve Job's email replies are terse.

    However, their App Store commission checks are huge. Salaries paid to iOS developers are very nice. Fees paid by companies to contract iOS developers are lucrative. And, their customers love using apps. Your sales market is worldwide. The development tools are extremely powerful. They are pretty good at backwards compatibility - very little fragmentation.

    I guess it all depends on what floats your boat as a developer.
    But the question was if they're doing their best. You're talking anout platform economics.

    With big numbers (not so big for the vast majority, if you digg a bit) you don't need to court anyone.(I think this is more than obvious)
    Last edited by deCorvett; 06/16/2011 at 03:18 PM.
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  10. #90  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    agreed we will find out soon.

    improve over time, maybe, many of us have learned not to trust HP for "future improvements". If it's not there at launch, it's not there. If it's important for a user, don't buy it until you see it works.
    Uhmmmm other than the 1 month the Veer has been out, what have we actually seen HP "launch". Pre2 was clearly ready to go from Palm before the buyout.

    So maybe you didn't/don't trust Palm, but HP is in charge now and thus far has launched 1 device a month ago.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  11. #91  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    Uhmmmm other than the 1 month the Veer has been out, what have we actually seen HP "launch". Pre2 was clearly ready to go from Palm before the buyout.

    So maybe you didn't/don't trust Palm, but HP is in charge now and thus far has launched 1 device a month ago.
    no way. decision of dropping webos 2.x on pre was made after hp bought palm, who was testing it late into last year. thats a more than sufficient reason for me to not trust hp.
  12. #92  
    oh, UntidyGuy, I just remembered you're the guy who thinks deserves itself the rights of calling starving to people. That explains your short-minded post.
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  13. #93  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    no way. decision of dropping webos 2.x on pre was made after hp bought palm, who was testing it late into last year. thats a more than sufficient reason for me to not trust hp.
    We've seen from many people that Pre- can't properly support the software. Sorry I am with this on it being the correct business decision.
    I love physical keyboards... but there is two devices that would make me consider a slab, one is something running a full version of Open webOS. The other is an iPhone!!!! HA HA just kidding (about the iPhone that is)...
  14. #94  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    OF course I can be convinced. I was convinced once. And I read his statement, and one developer doesn't make it true.

    While you might be tired of hearing from us, we've tried the webOS waters, we know what it is, and we've moved on to other platforms. We know what the competition is as well, and therefore I think we are better suited to comment on the state of webOS in comparison with these other platforms than some that would blindly follow the HP line.

    We wouldn't have bought into webOS if we didn't see something there in the first place. Unfortunately we've watched the powers that be bungle what could've been.

    I'm willing to jump back into the water headfirst, but I need to see HP do somethings that will make them competitive. I'm not seeing it yet. Talk is cheap. I'd venture to guess that there are many here with the same attitude I have.
    But still....

    Please list for me all of the HP owned WebOS products you have been burned on so far.

    That's what this is about. This isn't Palm. This is HP. WebOS isn't a virus that suddenly infected HP with Palm.

    This is like a sequel to a movie you hated being made by a different director, different studio, different producer and a far bigger budget - but you are ready to hate it out of the gate because it's got a similar title. It makes little sense.
  15. #95  
    Quote Originally Posted by OldSkoolVWLover View Post
    We've seen from many people that Pre- can't properly support the software. Sorry I am with this on it being the correct business decision.
    sure, I'm on the opposite side, based on my own experience of meta-doctoring my pre.
  16. #96  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    OF course I can be convinced. I was convinced once. And I read his statement, and one developer doesn't make it true.

    While you might be tired of hearing from us, we've tried the webOS waters, we know what it is, and we've moved on to other platforms. We know what the competition is as well, and therefore I think we are better suited to comment on the state of webOS in comparison with these other platforms than some that would blindly follow the HP line.

    We wouldn't have bought into webOS if we didn't see something there in the first place. Unfortunately we've watched the powers that be bungle what could've been.

    I'm willing to jump back into the water headfirst, but I need to see HP do somethings that will make them competitive. I'm not seeing it yet. Talk is cheap. I'd venture to guess that there are many here with the same attitude I have.
    The question here is if my opinion were the opposite, you would have dismissed it as fast as you did it, or you would have taken it as a perfect proof for your theory. No need to reply, we all know the answer to that question.

    Also, instead of wait and see what's coming, you are here trashing everything, and I'm tired of this kind of repetitive webOS trashing. But you (and others like you) feel the need of coming here again and again, contamining good threads with your "useful" how bad is doing everyone on webOS land. I'm going to tell you something: it's possible that hp never do these "somethings" you're talking about. Are you going to stay here forever repeating the same Booooring statements again and again? Free your time, and free us from your opinions, at least until you find those "somethings", everyone will win if you do so.
  17. #97  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    ...
    However, their App Store commission checks are huge. Salaries paid to iOS developers are very nice.
    I could have sworn I've read (several times) that the average payout for iOS apps is $600 annually. I wouldn't call that "huge"
  18. #98  
    Quote Originally Posted by Crackbone View Post
    OF course I can be convinced. I was convinced once. And I read his statement, and one developer doesn't make it true.

    While you might be tired of hearing from us, we've tried the webOS waters, we know what it is, and we've moved on to other platforms. We know what the competition is as well, and therefore I think we are better suited to comment on the state of webOS in comparison with these other platforms than some that would blindly follow the HP line.
    Except what you're talking about had nothing to do with the user experience of the OS. What you're saying would hold true if you were a developer, and were speaking from experience. You're not. So it just comes off as "I want them to do this" (and someone says "they are"), to which a response is "I don't believe it".

    You've never said why you don't believe it.

    Besides, it's not just one developer. We've seen several reports about HP targeting the top 20% of the apps and focusing on them. You've chosen to ignore that as well.
  19. #99  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    no way. decision of dropping webos 2.x on pre was made after hp bought palm, who was testing it late into last year. thats a more than sufficient reason for me to not trust hp.
    And after they heard from the testers, they realized it wasn't going to be practical.
  20. #100  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    ...
    This is like a sequel to a movie you hated being made by a different director, different studio, different producer and a far bigger budget - but you are ready to hate it out of the gate because it's got a similar title. It makes little sense.
    No, it's worse than that. It's like that, with the potential viewer saying "it has to have a better plot", to which one of those involved with the movie says "Oh, it does", and the nayser says "No, I don't believe it".
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