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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    what would be a good start?
    how would HP improve development environment?
    what buyers will evangelize the touchpad?

    lower each unit by $100 will improve all of these. It will improve sales, then more developer will jump in to build the ecosystem, and more users will try it and talked about it.

    what you said are true, but empty, without decent sales, all of those are empty. and I don't believe it will have decent sales if they price it that expensive and refuse to ship 16GB to the retail stores.
    Here are some articles you should read before continuing to advocate your price-is-the-only-god strategy.

    Excerpt:

    ... competing on price alone leads to disloyal customers, low margins and many sleepless nights for business managers. Price competition can work. But once you start leading with price, you better be prepared to be the lowest cost producer and offer the lowest prices in the market - bar none.
  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    Here are some articles you should read before continuing to advocate your price-is-the-only-god strategy.

    Excerpt:
    you sure know how to pick and choose when quoting things:

    For example, if your market is composed of competitors focusing upon high quality (and typically accompanied by higher prices) then competing on price can be a very effective way to enter a market.

    Competing on price can also be an effective way to gain market share -
    Guess what HP is doing now? Not holding a market, Not retain users, there is no loyalty to speak of since there is no users to begin with.

    They are, however, "entering a market", and "trying to gain market share".
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by MesBoogieBrown View Post
    Which is what, exactly? That's what has me skeptical.
    Seems like I've been doing a lot of Googling lately. Pixar, Warner Bros., etc. You saw the Feb 9th video where they touted their relationships with all those media folks. It's significant. And we have no idea who else they've been in talks with. Music Synergy is, as far as we know, still being built.


    Ok...but you are saying there have been "special circumstances" for five different phones across hella carriers over two years.

    So either WebOS is the unluckiest platform in the history of ever or it's not the fault of everyone else....
    Surely it wasn't the botched marketing, bad hardware, buggy initial OS releases, limited launch partner in the States, Android explosion, botched marketing (again), small size of the parent company, subsequent merger, brain-drain, and new corporate direction.

    "Special circumstances" is right: that whole situation was a cocktail of fail.

    But hey ... let's put that aside. If you don't believe that a combination of factors sunk webOS in the first go-around, then I'd like to know what the problem was. Is it the OS itself? Do you think it's destined to fail? If so, why?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    you sure know how to pick and choose when quoting things:



    Guess what HP is doing now? Not holding a market, Not retain users, there is no loyalty to speak of since there is no users to begin with.

    They are, however, "entering a market", and "trying to gain market share".
    I chose the paragraph I quoted because it superseded everything before it. The author put it last for a reason.

    The point I'm making is that competing on price alone is stupid. IMO, It's one of the big reasons T-Mobile USA is about to be bought.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    what would be a good start?
    First month sales of a couple of hundred thousand units. Maintaining this level would seem acceptable to me so long as early adopters do not drop off in significant numbers. Growing would, of course, be better.

    how would HP improve development environment?
    I said developer relations. The development environment is just part of it. Maintaining good relations with the developers to include training opportunities, technical support, and an inviting experience are key. Apple and Google have both done these; HP must follow suit. Developers can and do drop platforms just because something is too annoying to deal with administratively.

    what buyers will evangelize the touchpad?
    The ones that like it, just like every other product out there. Evangelizing doesn't have to be high-end, two-hour promotions. Merely showing it to others and passing on the excitement counts as evangelizing.

    what you said are true, but empty, without decent sales, all of those are empty. and I don't believe it will have decent sales if they price it that expensive and refuse to ship 16GB to the retail stores.
    I'm interested to see about whether and when the 16GB units show up in stores. It would be advisable to do it in the shorter term, though I don't know that HP has that much to lose by not doing it. I might consider getting one for my girlfriend at launch if it's available, but if not, I'll probably get her a 32GB version in a couple of months if she doesn't go for the 7" version (which she's talked about). It's a delayed sale, not a lost sale.
    If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there.
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    I chose the paragraph I quoted because it superseded everything before it. The author put it last for a reason.

    The point I'm making is that competing on price alone is stupid. IMO, It's one of the big reasons T-Mobile USA is about to be bought.
    no, the last paragraph doesn't encompass the prior.

    It was a generalization that exclude the situation when "entering a market" and "gain marketshare", which was talked above. Again, you don't get to discourage your loyal users when you have none.
  7. #47  
    Allow me to dispense with the hair-splitting:

    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    no, the last paragraph doesn't encompass the prior.

    It was a generalization that exclude the situation when "entering a market" and "gain marketshare", which was talked above. Again, you don't get to discourage your loyal users when you have none.
    ...
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell
    The point I'm making is that competing on price alone is stupid.
    </minutia>

    Let's move on.
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    True, my question is, is HP gonna sell this thing as business product mostly?

    because the high price tag and lesser hardwares gonna doom it at consumer market.
    The answer is Yes. That's because most of HPs products are sold to businesses, that's their specialty.

    As for the second, as has been established, that opinion's not really based on much. Willing to place a bet on whether or not it's "doomed"?
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by MesBoogieBrown View Post
    Don't focus on just the displays. The celebrity ads...the marketing campaign with "Everybody On"...doesn't really scream business or enterprise to me.
    I understand that completely. What I don't think you understand is that is the market those messages are designed for. Do you think that HP is not contacting their enterprise customers about the TP?

    They are, trust me.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    As for the second, as has been established, that opinion's not really based on much. Willing to place a bet on whether or not it's "doomed"?
    why not, I already made my predictions, you are welcome to put out yours.

    Mine:

    20,000 on launch day,
    200,000 first month
    300,000 first two month
    1,000,000 first year.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
    You could have said, "I don't have any experience." Note that I wasn't asking about a degree....
    ...HP, OTOH, has managed to post profits of $2.2 billion or more in four of the last five quarters. The low point was the quarter where they acquired Palm, and they still posted almost $1.8 billion in profit.
    ...
    Dude, what does a couple billion profits indicate? This guy posts on the internet, and even has an avatar! How could you question his qualification?

    /sarcasm
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    why not, I already made my predictions, you are welcome to put out yours.

    Mine:

    20,000 on launch day,
    200,000 first month
    300,000 first two month
    1,000,000 first year.
    Predictions are easy to make, and for a user to pretend they really know what they're talking about.

    It's when someone has to pony up something of value to back up what they "know", against what others (who must be "brainless") believe.

    I did say "bet", not "predict".

    Are you ready to make a bet?
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Predictions are easy to make, and for a user to pretend they really know what they're talking about.

    It's when someone has to pony up something of value to back up what they "know", against what others (who must be "brainless") believe.

    I did say "bet", not "predict".

    Are you ready to make a bet?
    I will donate 50bucks to webOS internal if it won't pan out as I predicted.

    Now put out your prediction and we shall see.
  14. #54  
    HP has seemingly learned nothing about the mobile market. Coming months, coming weeks, very shortly. It's played out. Almost nobody is waiting for HP any more. I'm not. I'm waiting for a device I like, regardless of who made it.
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    #55  
    they need to sell a lot more than a million to make it worth it....thats 650m in Revenue on average and thats gross not net to HP.

    Thats a drop in the bucket on R&D and development costs. they need to sell 5M to 7M to be successful and have the resources to build upon to compete with Apple and Google.
  16. #56  
    HP now is looking at TouchPad as consumer market device for sure, and I agree HP doesn't have clue about mobile market. If they do, they wouldn't put so high price on TouchPad. Aiming on business, HP will have to wait lot to see any cash from tablet sales. Touchpad is not Proliant server or Blade server. That is one thing many of us forgot (including me initially when I was all overjoyed by HP's Palm's acquisition). TouchPad is too inexpensive (for business standards) so it must sell in millions, and business for now doesn't have demands for such volumes of tablets. HP is trying to find way to introduce TP to business market in some meaningful way and it looks like HP plans to sell TouchPads as consumer device for HP's own business services which they didn't created yet, or shaped in tablet friendly way.
    That services will be shaped in coming period (no irony here) and I believe HP will center WebOS mobile devices as medium for easy access to those services. At the end, HP could see some sucess in business market with tablet, but as part of larger services they will offer.
  17. spare's Avatar
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    #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by bignoze View Post
    they need to sell a lot more than a million to make it worth it....thats 650m in Revenue on average and thats gross not net to HP.

    Thats a drop in the bucket on R&D and development costs. they need to sell 5M to 7M to be successful and have the resources to build upon to compete with Apple and Google.
    Every TouchPad sale is also a pc sale that didn't go to a competitor.
  18. #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I will donate 50bucks to webOS internal if it won't pan out as I predicted.
    Quoted for truth

    Quote Originally Posted by spare View Post
    Every TouchPad sale is also a pc sale that didn't go to a competitor.
    Quoted for being the smartest thing said on this thread in a while.
  19. nyallj's Avatar
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    #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    HP now is looking at TouchPad as consumer market device for sure, and I agree HP doesn't have clue about mobile market. If they do, they wouldn't put so high price on TouchPad. Aiming on business, HP will have to wait lot to see any cash from tablet sales. Touchpad is not Proliant server or Blade server. That is one thing many of us forgot (including me initially when I was all overjoyed by HP's Palm's acquisition). TouchPad is too inexpensive (for business standards) so it must sell in millions, and business for now doesn't have demands for such volumes of tablets. HP is trying to find way to introduce TP to business market in some meaningful way and it looks like HP plans to sell TouchPads as consumer device for HP's own business services which they didn't created yet, or shaped in tablet friendly way.
    That services will be shaped in coming period (no irony here) and I believe HP will center WebOS mobile devices as medium for easy access to those services. At the end, HP could see some sucess in business market with tablet, but as part of larger services they will offer.
    Considering that they had the Slate planned before acquiring Palm, I would think that they have some idea about their plans for their tablet market(ing).
    NNJ
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    I will donate 50bucks to webOS internal if it won't pan out as I predicted.

    Now put out your prediction and we shall see.
    I'll do the same if they dont' sell 3 million the first year.

    Do you consider 3 million the first year to be "not selling"?
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