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  1. #21  
    I don't see a reason why the calendar can't run compiled code actually.

    The advantage of javascript is that it's widely known and used and it's faster to program in than compiled code.

    Compiled code = takes longer = costs more to develop.
  2. #22  
    So, I was right- first Palm's execs and now HP execs are thinkig that all is OK with WebOS speed, so no generic app rewriting is needed. They think card flshing while app is loading is cool!?
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    So, I was right- first Palm's execs and now HP execs are thinkig that all is OK with WebOS speed, so no generic app rewriting is needed. They think card flshing while app is loading is cool!?
    Actually I don't think they are "ok" with the speed. They didn't tout the speed of apps developed in Enyo for no reason. They are quite aware of that webos is "slow". Some apps have been rewritten such as the phone app to increase its speed. If you are going to make an OS based on web code, then you are embracing a philosophy about the web and the future. Maybe that means your weather app doesn't open as quick as it does on your friends iphone. Also an important part of webos is cards. If you keep the stuff open you use alot, then it doesn't take any time to open them. If you like to have a clean homescreen like many do, then they will have to deal with app lag when opening their twitter app. As web languages become more powerful, so will webos in a sense.
    Last edited by Superjudge; 06/07/2011 at 12:31 PM.
  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Beanis View Post
    I don't see a reason why the calendar can't run compiled code actually.

    The advantage of javascript is that it's widely known and used and it's faster to program in than compiled code.

    Compiled code = takes longer = costs more to develop.
    SO if we have compiled calendar, and compiled launcher and compiled phone app, isnt it safe to say we have a compiled system compatible with web language?
    I am sad to know that the only advantage of webOS is that the language is used wildy, not its faster or sleeker or results in better programming.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    SO if we have compiled calendar, and compiled launcher and compiled phone app, isnt it safe to say we have a compiled system compatible with web language?
    I am sad to know that the only advantage of webOS is that the language is used wildy, not its faster or sleeker or results in better programming.
    If you can't deal with webOS, don't buy webOS... plain and simple.
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  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    SO if we have compiled calendar, and compiled launcher and compiled phone app, isnt it safe to say we have a compiled system compatible with web language?
    I am sad to know that the only advantage of webOS is that the language is used wildy, not its faster or sleeker or results in better programming.
    The programming language is only as powerful as the programmer and what they are allowed to do with it. This is true for all programming languages. The advantages of webos, I would think, have to do with it's streamlined UI, multitasking ability, and gesture based navigation.
  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    If you can't deal with webOS, don't buy webOS... plain and simple.
    That is lame response.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    That is lame response.
    Not so sure. You're asking for a complete change of the webOS paradigm, to become like iOS or WP7 paradigm.

    So it doesn't seem too lame to think that maybe you should search your pad or phone on those platforms.

    webOS is webOS: a webkit engine running as user interface on top of linux. If you don't want javascript apps (and that means that you don't want patches too), simply don't use a Javascript based OS.
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  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    If you can't deal with webOS, don't buy webOS... plain and simple.
    I think the purpose of this thread is for some of us less savvy folks to gain an understanding of what is a permanent limitation of the OS, and what we can expect/hope to be minimized. That way, people can make an intelligent informed decision about whether to "move on" or stay.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    I think the purpose of this thread is for some of us less savvy folks to gain an understanding of what is a permanent limitation of the OS, and what we can expect/hope to be minimized. That way, people can make an intelligent informed decision about whether to "move on" or stay.
    I agree. I think it's important for people to understand the OS they are using and why it behaves the way it does in both good and bad ways. I think we aren't doing good job of explaining the good ways.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    I think the purpose of this thread is for some of us less savvy folks to gain an understanding of what is a permanent limitation of the OS, and what we can expect/hope to be minimized. That way, people can make an intelligent informed decision about whether to "move on" or stay.
    That is a far better response and NOT a lame one.
    If this helped you hit thanks.
  12. #32  
    Somehow you are right in both posts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
    I agree. I think it's important for people to understand the OS they are using and why it behaves the way it does in both good and bad ways. I think we aren't doing good job of explaining the good ways.
    There are some things in WebOS that I don't like, so I wanna know are they features or "bugs"...

    Quote Originally Posted by deCorvett View Post
    If you can't deal with webOS, don't buy webOS... plain and simple.
    ... if it turns it's a features of WebOS that I don't like, I will never buy it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superjudge View Post
    ..Also an important part of webos is cards. If you keep the stuff open you use alot, then it doesn't take any time to open them.
    I've heard card argument few times and it does make sense. That indeed reflects WebOS philosophy and core idea of cards, but I had problem to force myself to keep apps opened. Maybe its because of Pre screen size, or just lack of habit.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    .There are some things in WebOS that I don't like, so I wanna know are they features or "bugs"...
    Well obviously the splash screens and app loading times are some of the things you don't like. I think we explained that one to you. What are the others you're wondering about?
  14. #34  
    That's mainly my problem with WebOS. Personally I think, as you pointed, HP will try to balance performance with enyo so I'll wait to see how Pre3 is performing.
    Thanks
  15.    #35  
    ahh... so this is more of a limitation of Linux, using a Javascript for code... That's why Android can't ever be as smooth as iOS or WP7. That makes more sense, so it's not something JUST with a hardware accelerated UI!
  16. #36  
    On the Touchpad, the browser is hardware accelerated from what I remember. So does that mean it's been rewritten in compiled code now? Or maybe there's a way in Enyo to harness the GPU somehow to make scrolling smooth? This stuff is over my head, so if I'm spouting nonsense, feel free to just ignore me. lol.
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    #37  
    Much of the Playbook's UI is still not GPU accelerated (video at 25:30)

  18. #38  
    Quote Originally Posted by MesBoogieBrown View Post
    Hasn't the WebOS paradigm already changed, tho? No gesture area on tablets....no more Mojo....from being a phone OS to something that will mostly be on printers and PCs. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for other changes. Clearly, even HP thought the status quo wasn't good enough to ask people to just accept it as it was or find another OS.
    It hasn't changed that much. Enyo is touted a much better Javascript framework than Mojo and they've adapted it to be able to run on devices w/o gesture areas, which gives them more flexibility hardware wise. Apparently most if not all of the low level APIs/services have apparently been changed from Java to C++ for 2.x, so that should help speed up some operations up by avoiding the initial hit of the JVM's JIT compiler.

    Quote Originally Posted by maduhbee View Post
    ahh... so this is more of a limitation of Linux, using a Javascript for code... That's why Android can't ever be as smooth as iOS or WP7. That makes more sense, so it's not something JUST with a hardware accelerated UI!
    I don't think it has anything to do with linux, but the frameworks used on top of it. Android uses Google's own version of a Java virtual machine and Windows 7 has .NET, so both are running managed code in virtual machine, although Microsoft has had more years of work optimizing it for mobile platforms.

    A lot of it comes down to a trade off between developer time and what's considered to be acceptable performance on today's hardware.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by kkhanmd View Post
    That is a far better response and NOT a lame one.
    My excuses. Yesterday was a bad day, and I entered the post with a wrong perspective, I thought I was reading whinners, and I'm really tired of whinners.

    I'll try to explain the current state of webOS, in a post later today.

    There are a lot of wrong assumptions in this thread, related to "native" code used on webOS.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
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  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by hrminer92 View Post
    It hasn't changed that much. Enyo is touted a much better Javascript framework than Mojo and they've adapted it to be able to run on devices w/o gesture areas, which gives them more flexibility hardware wise. Apparently most if not all of the low level APIs/services have apparently been changed from Java to C++ for 2.x, so that should help speed up some operations up by avoiding the initial hit of the JVM's JIT compiler.
    On webOS 2.x they've enabled nodeJS to third parties, and moved all their services from Java to nodeJS, not to C++ code. NodeJS is a technology that enables server side processing Javascript (javascript is intended to run on the client side).

    The issue isn't with native (or not native) code: media companies are starting to launch webapp versions of their apps for iPhone, and they're actually faster than the Cocoa versions.

    The issue is, in most cases, a perception issue. When a iOS app launches follows this flow:

    1. the app starts launching
    2. while the app loads into memory the OS makes an animation of a frame resizing from the app icon to full screen. While this happens, the app loads a bitmap that is a exact representation of the app's startup UI. If the app doesn't have a "loading" screen, the image is an empty window, but with all the buttons, bars, and so on.
    3. the OS shows this image (not the actual app).
    4. the app loads it's preferences and initial setup, and starts running.


    Actually, it takes between 1 to 3 seconds (depending on the app, of course) to the app to really load, but the user thinks that what they have in front of them is the real app, while they really only have a bitmap. Also, iOS PIM and browser apps are always open, so they really aren't opening each time (look at webOS' browser and email apps as reference, they are always running).

    On webOS, the loading proccess is different. webOS loads the app in minimized state, showing a glowing icon until the app load is completed. The dev can replace the gray background of the app with a bitmap, but that approach doesn't look like an instant load. It really takes (practically, and obviously depending on how heavy the app is, and how it's developed) the same time to open an app on iOS or webOS, but the user doesn't have the same feeling.

    I've been able to truly instant load (less than a second) of one of my apps just with a few tricks, like the ones iOS uses, but as the loading method is different, it has it's own issues (like UI flashing).
    Last edited by deCorvett; 06/08/2011 at 06:55 AM.
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