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  1. #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Why not go all the way have both active cards with no overlay so that you can scroll either card or both at the same time. However when you tap into a text field the virtual keyboard moves to the card where that field was activated?

    That would allow a user to write an email while reading a webpage, PDF or another email at the same time and scroll what your reading as your typing without interfering.

    I find myself referring to past emails or web pages when writing an email this would be a valuable feature that I can not do currently on Win7. It would actually make me want to use a WebOS device over my laptop.
    Thats what I was thinking exactly! When I was talking about the transparency of the card, I was referring to when you are selecting cards. It would allow a much easier way to navigate the card view when selecting the second card. The keyboard idea is great and would work very well. And YES, it would provide the single most valuable feature that traditional PC can do better than mobile OS's. I would much prefer this over my laptop any day of the week.
    Last edited by Rennat; 06/02/2011 at 05:53 PM.
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  2. #42  
    This is a great idea, but only one part of the issue. The touchpad will also need a longer lasting battery as having two apps showing their GUI at the same time takes more power.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    This is a great idea, but only one part of the issue. The touchpad will also need a longer lasting battery as having two apps showing their GUI at the same time takes more power.
    Really?!? how much of a difference would one app full screen displayed by the GUI be over two apps half sized being displayed?

    Is there really a significant battery drain on this?
  4. #44  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Why not go all the way have both active cards with no overlay so that you can scroll either card or both at the same time. However when you tap into a text field the virtual keyboard moves to the card where that field was activated?
    Programatically, that is NOT feasible. You need only one of them to be "active" at a time. This is because apps can listen to keystrokes when active even if you're not in an input. (To see an example of this, go into the main page of your messaging app on your webos phone - where it lists all the people you've talke to - and just start typing. It'll pop up a gray bar with that text in it and start looking for contact names that match that) This is an important functionality that makes giving two apps the active focus at the same time impossible.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    This is a great idea, but only one part of the issue. The touchpad will also need a longer lasting battery as having two apps showing their GUI at the same time takes more power.
    No, it wouldn't take much more battery as the app is running anyway and doing the same things in the background. Yes, it may take up a little bit extra as it is part of the GUI but I don't see it as a issue. Deesugar reiterates my thoughts on this subject also:
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Really?!? how much of a difference would one app full screen displayed by the GUI be over two apps half sized being displayed?

    Is there really a significant battery drain on this?
    Last edited by Rennat; 06/02/2011 at 05:47 PM.
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  6. #46  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Really?!? how much of a difference would one app full screen displayed by the GUI be over two apps half sized being displayed?

    Is there really a significant battery drain on this?
    Yes. It's NOT the size of the windows, but the number/type of graphical components in each app and the fact that each has its own set of threads and handle into the windowing system.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    Programatically, that is NOT feasible. You need only one of them to be "active" at a time. This is because apps can listen to keystrokes when active even if you're not in an input. (To see an example of this, go into the main page of your messaging app on your webos phone - where it lists all the people you've talke to - and just start typing. It'll pop up a gray bar with that text in it and start looking for contact names that match that) This is an important functionality that makes giving two apps the active focus at the same time impossible.
    Ok so at the worst a user wouldn't be able to scroll both screens at the same time but you would still be able to scroll either card as fast as you could move a finger back and forth from the cards. This alone would be good enough for most. But I still think you're wrong because as long as a device can do multi-touch, it should be possible.

    But your example of how it's not possible because the current WebOS can't do it is kinda laughable. That's like saying voice dial isn't possible before 2.x came out because it wasn't on 1.x
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    Yes. It's NOT the size of the windows, but the number/type of graphical components in each app and the fact that each has its own set of threads and handle into the windowing system.
    Yes, but the true question is how much extra power will that actually take? When you are running a device, it is not the work you do on the screen that burns all that battery. It is the bright screen, GPS, Data, and other services that are the real burners. Yes, we may loose 15-30 minutes off the battery at the worst it can get. But isn't that worth having the only device in the world, including PC, that can interact with 2 programs at once? PC can't even interact with 2 at the same time but because of the multi-touch screen we can!
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    Yes, but the true question is how much extra power will that actually take? When you are running a device, it is not the work you do on the screen that burns all that battery. It is the bright screen, GPS, Data, and other services that are the real burners. Yes, we may loose 15-30 minutes off the battery at the worst it can get. But isn't that worth having the only device in the world, including PC, that can interact with 2 programs at once? PC can't even interact with 2 at the same time but because of the multi-touch screen we can!
    Actually it wouldn't even be 15-30min because you are forgetting the time and power saved over conventionally switching between apps and taking longer for the same task.
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Actually it wouldn't even be 15-30min because you are forgetting the time and power saved over conventionally switching between apps and taking longer for the same task.
    That is another point as well. Thank you for bringing it up. But overall, I do not think that it would have any significant battery drain on the TouchPad. And if it does for some maraculous reason, so be it. I still have the first device in the world that can interact with two apps at once. #MoreThanWorthIt
    "Life is Hard... it's harder if your stupid"
    - John Wayne
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by Rennat View Post
    I have also thought of this and it became more of a reality when the Mock-up contest started awhile back. It would be 2 portrait cards when the device it self would be in landscape and 2 landscape cards when the devices is held portrait.

    I used that idea on my phone design for the contest. After using Windows 7, it just seemed like a match made in heaven!
  12. #52  
    I sent this thread last week to Evan Wilbrecht at palm.. And he said he liked it & found it an interesting idea

    http://twitter.com/Evanwilbrecht/status/73059360179367936

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Ok so at the worst a user wouldn't be able to scroll both screens at the same time but you would still be able to scroll either card as fast as you could move a finger back and forth from the cards. This alone would be good enough for most. But I still think you're wrong because as long as a device can do multi-touch, it should be possible.

    But your example of how it's not possible because the current WebOS can't do it is kinda laughable. That's like saying voice dial isn't possible before 2.x came out because it wasn't on 1.x
    My example wasn't of how it's not possible on WebOS, my example was of how keystrokes can be captured by an app regardless of whether it's in an input. The point is that if active apps are always able to listen to keystrokes (which has to be allowed or a number of apps become impossible), then if two apps are both active, they'd both be receiving those same keystrokes, despite the user meaning them for only one of the apps. You NEED a way to tell the operating system that your key presses are meant for the app on the left not the one on the right.
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    My example wasn't of how it's not possible on WebOS, my example was of how keystrokes can be captured by an app regardless of whether it's in an input. The point is that if active apps are always able to listen to keystrokes (which has to be allowed or a number of apps become impossible), then if two apps are both active, they'd both be receiving those same keystrokes, despite the user meaning them for only one of the apps. You NEED a way to tell the operating system that your key presses are meant for the app on the left not the one on the right.
    I don't think you've been reading any of the posts. Because we already addressed how keystrokes work.

    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    When you tap into a text input field the virtual keyboard moves to the card where that field was activated?

    That would allow a user to write an email while reading a webpage, PDF or another email at the same time and scroll what your reading as your typing without interfering.
    So keystrokes in an activated input field is different then a scrolling action. And far as scrolling, I don't think you understand that either. If you have two active apps side by side there should be no problem scrolling both at the same time or one at at time. They are divided by space (or coordinates) so the OS would know which app you are trying to scroll in based on where on the screen your touch is. It would also know when you are trying to scroll both apps at the same time because of multi-touch. None of this is magic or alchemy.
  15. #55  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    I don't think you've been reading any of the posts. Because we already addressed how keystrokes work.



    So keystrokes in an activated input field is different then a scrolling action. And far as scrolling, I don't think you understand that either. If you have two active apps side by side there should be no problem scrolling both at the same time or one at at time. They are divided by space (or coordinates) so the OS would know which app you are trying to scroll in based on where on the screen your touch is. It would also know when you are trying to scroll both apps at the same time because of multi-touch. None of this is magic or alchemy.
    Um, you clearly are not a programmer. You do NOT understand how the capture of keystrokes work. The quote you give of clicking in an input to send keystrokes to a specific app ignores the app's ability to listen to keystrokes at the document level (this.controller.document, which in webos is the app's current stage's top component that can listen for events).

    And if you read my posts, I never said scrolling both wouldn't work (although...see below). But keystrokes are sent not to a specific location, which is why typing on a keyboard (virtual or real) requires something that tells the keyboard which component to send the key presses to.

    Scrolling:
    Here's why scrolling might also be a problem. In webOS (and all touch screens currently), a press on the screen cannot be guaranteed to be accurate beyond about 24 square pixels. This means that the edges of each app would run the risk of capturing any presses/drags from the other app out to about 23 pixels beyond the edge. This means the OS would have to either make the 24 pixels on the left/right edge of each snapped-app useless or inform users that unpredictable activity occurs there. (OR, it can make only one app active at a time, which keeps reactions to presses predictable)
    Last edited by 6tr6tr; 06/03/2011 at 11:12 AM.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    Um, you clearly are not a programmer. You do NOT understand how the capture of keystrokes work. The quote you give of clicking in an input to send keystrokes to a specific app ignores the app's ability to listen to keystrokes at the document level (this.controller.document, which in webos is the app's current stage's top component that can listen for events).
    You do realize this is a conceptual thread based mostly on the goal of placing apps side by side for WebOS? This is something that can currently be done on any windows GUI based OS and the video of Win8 for mobile devices which is what started this thread.

    If WebOS allows two apps to snap into place on the TouchPad, we're 90% happy right there.

    Quote Originally Posted by 6tr6tr View Post
    Scrolling:
    Here's why scrolling might also be a problem. In webOS (and all touch screens currently), a press on the screen cannot be guaranteed to be accurate beyond about 24 square pixels. This means that the edges of each app would run the risk of capturing any presses/drags from the other app out to about 23 pixels beyond the edge. This means the OS would have to either make the 24 pixels on the left/right edge of each snapped-app useless or inform users that unpredictable activity occurs there. (OR, it can make only one app active at a time, which keeps reactions to presses predictable)
    So what??? All you are saying is that touch screens are not exact, I think most people know that. You make a touch in between two apps and the app that is touched glows or something, problem solved. But for the most part the screen on a TP is large enough to scroll between two apps without a problem since you can touch anywhere in a app to scroll.

    You can either spend your efforts on nay saying everything in a thread or figure out a way to make something work. You seem to be the person of the former.
  17. #57  
    Well looks like Microsoft is already using the split screen app idea that I and some other users had and almost exactly as we had envisioned it:


    Everything You Need to Know About Today's Windows 8 News (Updating)

    Split Screen Apps

    Despite the fact that the Metro UI moves away from the windowed design of yore, that doesn't mean you have to be locked into one app at any given time. The Metro UI will allow two apps to share screen space so that you can multitask without sacrificing the flattened design of Windows 8. Conceptually, it's a lot like the Twitter app for iPad, (in that app you can view your timeline while having a browser window with a link you clicked open right next to it). It's quick and efficient.
  18. #58  
    sounds like something glimpse could achieve over time, esp as its beta has the option of adding a whole app to a widget.
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