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  1.    #1  
    Heads up Charlie Sheen, HP may have a "winner"

    HP's TouchPad Could Emerge as Viable IPad Competitor | PCWorld

    HP's TouchPad could emerge as a viable competitor to Apple's iPad tablet in a burgeoning market filled with disappointing competitors, industry analysts said this week.

    The TouchPad, which is due for release in June, needs to be competitively priced and different on features from devices that include a slew of Android tablets and Research in Motion's PlayBook, analysts said.

    "Most iPad competitors on the Android platform have had zero differentiation so far and have been unable to demarcate from each other. Other competing platforms such as RIM's Playbooks have received lukewarm-to-poor feedback from consumers as they lack critical functions," said David Daoud, research director at IDC.

    Tablet shipments totaled 6 million units in this year's first quarter, of which Apple's iPad had a 74 percent market share, Canalys Research said in a study last month. The rest of the market share was taken by competitors such as Samsung's Galaxy Tab, which runs Android.

    The TouchPad was originally announced in February and is based on the webOS mobile platform, which HP obtained when it acquired Palm for $1.2 billion last year. The TouchPad is critical to HP's long-term strategy of putting webOS on products ranging from PCs to smartphones so files and content can be shared easily between devices.

    "For HP, the TouchPad is a risk-reward play -- it's a major investment in a non-Windows device, said Sarah Rotman Epps, a senior analyst of consumer product strategy at Forrester Research

    "Success sets HP up to be a competitor with Apple -- the only PC manufacturer to also own its own operating system," Epps said.

    The TouchPad could also soften the impact of lagging PC sales, analysts said. HP this week reported that revenue for the company's Personal Systems Group (PSG), which is responsible for PCs, declined 5 percent year-over-over, fueled by a 23 percent decline in consumer client revenue.

    In the wake of disappointing PC sales, HP's primary competitors Dell and Acer have dialed up their tablet strategies. Dell plans many new tablets in the next 10 to 20 months in the Asia-Pacific region, a company executive said on a conference call on Thursday. Acer recently announced its first tablets under the Iconia brand with the Android and Windows 7 operating systems.

    If the TouchPad were to fail, it could be embarrassing for HP, but not crippling, analysts said. HP is still the world's largest PC manufacturer, and the company can take lessons back to retool the device and OS strategy.

    The product's failure would leave a cloud hanging over the company's webOS strategy, said Charles King , principal analyst at Pund-IT.

    "If it fails, the common assumption will be that it's simply another in a line of tablets that came up against Apple and was knocked into the gutter," King said.

    The TouchPad will have a 9.7-inch screen, a dual-core 1.2GHz Snapdragon processor and 16GB or 32GB of storage. A Wi-Fi version will be available initially, with 3G and 4G versions coming later. The tablet has been listed on multiple websites, including Amazon, Best Buy and Staples, but pricing is not yet available.

    When it introduced the TouchPad in February, HP highlighted some features that could give the tablet an edge over its rivals. The device runs Adobe Flash, and HP's Touchstone technology allows for wireless communication between webOS-based mobile devices. The company also highlighted Synergy, a software suite that integrates e-mail and information from online sources such as Twitter and Facebook in a single application.

    But analysts have said that HP faces challenges because of limited support from application developers. It could also take time for users to get used to a device based on a new OS, said Ezra Gottheil, senior analyst at Technology Business Research.

    "I believe webOS will be a winner for HP, but it may start slow in the consumer market, where much of the mindshare is occupied by Apple and Android," Gottheil said.

    The tablet wars remind Gottheil of the PC wars in the early 1980s, when IBM, Apple, Commodore and Atari competed on price and features in a bid to sell more PCs.

    "I started in the PC industry in 1980, and the tablet industry is at approximately the same point as PCs were then. Apple had the largest market share, and HP was a minor player. I don't think Apple will make the mistakes in tablets that it did in PCs, but HP is definitely in it for the long haul," Gottheil said.
  2. #2  
    HP needs to produce a product that exceed iPad and maybe android tabs in multiple aspects.

    Does touchpad do that? I don't know, no back camera, no HDMI, no SD slot, no gesture area, no netflix, so-so battery life, so-so screen resolution, so-so price. HP apparently produced a product that have an array of shortcomings opponents can point to.

    Yeah it has webOS, but HP needs to expand market. For those who don't know webOS, its just another mobile OS, and what about touchpad that attract them? I don't see it.
  3. bnceo's Avatar
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    #3  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    HP needs to produce a product that exceed iPad and maybe android tabs in multiple aspects.

    Does touchpad do that? I don't know, no back camera, no HDMI, no SD slot, no gesture area, no netflix, so-so battery life, so-so screen resolution, so-so price. HP apparently produced a product that have an array of shortcomings opponents can point to.

    Yeah it has webOS, but HP needs to expand market. For those who don't know webOS, its just another mobile OS, and what about touchpad that attract them? I don't see it.
    Back Camera: Not needed
    HDMI: Yup. This is important
    SD Slot: If they use the cloud, not important
    Gesture Area: I could see the reason there wasn't one. If phones keep it, fine.
    Netflix: You don't know this yet
    Battery Life: You don't know this yet
    Resolution: Could be a big deal, but IMO, it's not one. It's about usability
  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    HP needs to produce a product that exceed iPad and maybe android tabs in multiple aspects.

    Does touchpad do that? I don't know, no back camera, no HDMI, no SD slot, no gesture area, no netflix, so-so battery life, so-so screen resolution, so-so price. HP apparently produced a product that have an array of shortcomings opponents can point to.

    Yeah it has webOS, but HP needs to expand market. For those who don't know webOS, its just another mobile OS, and what about touchpad that attract them? I don't see it.
    Man, you must be one lucky fellow to have used a Touchpad in order to state with fact that the TP will not have Netflix, has so-so battery life, so-so screen resolution and that it has a number of short comings. Have you written your review since you have a review unit?

    Now back to the real-world. Let's wait until the device comes out before we start to proclaim that it can't compete. And lack of back camera will not determine whether the TP can compete. Only the people within HP knows about battery life and the screen resolution is the same as the Ipad 1 & 2. The Ipad 1 & 2 and Android devices don't have gesture areas. Gesture areas will not make or break the TP's successful. Only the small minority of a minority here at Precentral cares about a gesture area.
    Are you trying to hurt me?
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by clevin View Post
    HP needs to produce a product that exceed iPad and maybe android tabs in multiple aspects.
    Maybe, but ever heard of the Wii???
  6. #6  
    bnceo: The SD Slot is incredibly important. Cloud based music on a device that's supposed to have premium audio (that Beats garbage) is a joke. Streaming audio tends to be pretty low quality. You don't stream lossless rips from the cloud. If they support this, I will be shocked. Either way, the lack of SD is most definitely the biggest reason I will not be getting a Pre3, it can MAYBE slide on this, but the audio is not going to be great.

    To everyone in this post, you are delusional if you think that Netflix will be coming to webOS any time soon. It took them how long to get to Android? And Android has how many more users?

    deesugar: The markets are literally not comparable in any way. And even if they were, it was marketing that got the Wii to where it is. Have you seen any marketing for the TP. If we were to compare this to a video game system, I would say it most closely resembles the Sega Saturn. Let's do a "surprise" launch. That'll get the customers!
    Blasphemous webOS fan, using Android (with a big phone buying problem)
  7. #7  
    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Maybe, but ever heard of the Wii???
    Bad comparison. The Wii had several things going for it:
    1) lots of mindshare because people knew the brand and remembered their past products fondly
    2) exclusive games like Zelda and Metroid that were also compelling and drive initial sales
    3) an interesting control system that turned out to be compelling when people started paying attention to it
    4) lots of "jump on the bandwagon"...many wii consoles actually sit unused
    5) pricepoints and system requirements (best experience didn't need a HDTV) that made jumping on the bandwagon easy

    From what I can tell, the only thing the Touchpad has is the interesting control system, but nobody's paying attention to it.
  8. #8  
    @Reggie

    The reality is that Netflix had to be re-written because it was originally done with silverlight. Re-writing the platform and exposing APIs for iOS and Android apps took a long time.

    but most of that time was spent negotiating rights to distribute to mobile platforms, prove drm effectiveness, etc.

    The time needed to create a netflix app for webOS would be a few months at most.

    I don't know if we will have Netflix for the TouchPad, but I think the odds are better because the heavy lifting is done.
  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by reggieb View Post
    bnceo: The SD Slot is incredibly important. Cloud based music on a device that's supposed to have premium audio (that Beats garbage) is a joke. Streaming audio tends to be pretty low quality. You don't stream lossless rips from the cloud. If they support this, I will be shocked. Either way, the lack of SD is most definitely the biggest reason I will not be getting a Pre3, it can MAYBE slide on this, but the audio is not going to be great.

    To everyone in this post, you are delusional if you think that Netflix will be coming to webOS any time soon. It took them how long to get to Android? And Android has how many more users?

    deesugar: The markets are literally not comparable in any way. And even if they were, it was marketing that got the Wii to where it is. Have you seen any marketing for the TP. If we were to compare this to a video game system, I would say it most closely resembles the Sega Saturn. Let's do a "surprise" launch. That'll get the customers!
    Really?? It was marketing that got the Wii to where it is? How about the fact that the Wii had a unique interface/controller that neither MS or Sony had implemented in a gaming console - it was a game changer hence Kinect and Move. So in once aspect you are correct the markets don't compare well, but you seemed to have missed the whole reason the Wii was successful.

    Now back on the topic of the post, the Touch Pad may lack in some areas that users will desire - SD slot, HDMI, etc, but we all know this won't be the only tablet device HP will put out with WebOS. If this version of the Touch Pad doesn't meet you needs, go get one the gazillion Android devices that currently do and have fun tapping through menu after menu and inconsistent interfaces... don't rain on the true webOS fans' parade.
  10. #10  
    Quote Originally Posted by reggieb View Post
    deesugar: The markets are literally not comparable in any way. And even if they were, it was marketing that got the Wii to where it is. Have you seen any marketing for the TP. If we were to compare this to a video game system, I would say it most closely resembles the Sega Saturn. Let's do a "surprise" launch. That'll get the customers!
    Reggieb: This has nothing to do with markets, this has to do with the concept that specs don't always win. It wasn't the marketing that made the Wii popular, it was that it offered something different that appealed to gamers. WebOS is different and if HP leverages their cloud services with the TP to offer something better and different then specs won't matter either.
  11. #11  
    Well, I can change the SD slot for USB Host + Bluetooth 3.0 with Obex protocol + big internal memory...


    Best Regards...
    "If A Man Isn't Willing To Take Some Risk For His Opinions, Either His Opinions Are No Good Or He's No Good!" - Ezra Pound (Poet & Critic)
    (Happy A Lot, As A Good Carioca!)
  12. #12  
    Taking into consideration it's size, it should have a rear camera, HDMI, Sd, and USB.

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  13. #13  
    Quote Originally Posted by jay2 View Post
    Really?? It was marketing that got the Wii to where it is? How about the fact that the Wii had a unique interface/controller that neither MS or Sony had implemented in a gaming console - it was a game changer hence Kinect and Move. So in once aspect you are correct the markets don't compare well, but you seemed to have missed the whole reason the Wii was successful.

    Now back on the topic of the post, the Touch Pad may lack in some areas that users will desire - SD slot, HDMI, etc, but we all know this won't be the only tablet device HP will put out with WebOS. If this version of the Touch Pad doesn't meet you needs, go get one the gazillion Android devices that currently do and have fun tapping through menu after menu and inconsistent interfaces... don't rain on the true webOS fans' parade.
    The topic of this post is about the TouchPad being a "winner" and it is missing key features. The motion control gimmick certainly helped the Wii sell, but marketing is what makes or breaks a product. Any product. Android is a great example of this. It was out a long time before Verizon got behind marketing it, and only then did the platform really explode. And the problem with this TouchPad, which I do plan to purchase, is that there are simply too many consumers whose boxes this won't check.

    "True" webOS fans should be the most up in arms about this. HP has to hit a home run if you want webOS products to continue to be produced. Also, your Android comments beguile a lack of having used the OS very extensively.

    Quote Originally Posted by deesugar View Post
    Reggieb: This has nothing to do with markets, this has to do with the concept that specs don't always win. It wasn't the marketing that made the Wii popular, it was that it offered something different that appealed to gamers. WebOS is different and if HP leverages their cloud services with the TP to offer something better and different then specs won't matter either.
    The Wii never appealed to gamers, actually. It appealed to non-gamers. Gamers bought the XBox 360 and the PS3. And you can't grow a market with the best concept in the world without marketing.
    Blasphemous webOS fan, using Android (with a big phone buying problem)
  14. #14  
    "Most iPad competitors on the Android platform have had zero differentiation so far and have been unable to demarcate from each other. Other competing platforms such as RIM's Playbooks have received lukewarm-to-poor feedback from consumers as they lack critical functions," said David Daoud, research director at IDC.
    It’s sound bite comments like these that make me seriously question the objectivity of articles in the “news” these days.

    Yeah the ipad is the leader, no one is disputing that, but to say that everyone else is nothing is rather sensationalistic. The Android tablets may look the same at first glance, but the various companies making them (sans Motorola) have figured out how to make a profit on “their slice” of the Android pie.

    For example, ASUS is ramping up production to accommodate 10,000 Transformers *a day* and air shipping them to North America to try and address demand.

    Asus Eee Pad Transformer to see maximum production rates, due to strong demand - Phone Arena

    As for the Playbook, it’s estimated to be on schedule to sell half a million of them in the first quarter of its release.

    RIM has sold 250,000 BlackBerry PlayBooks according to RBC - Phone Arena

    Those may not be ipad numbers, but they aren’t chump change either. HP could be so lucky to get such traction.

    -Suntan
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    The time needed to create a netflix app for webOS would be a few months at most.

    I don't know if we will have Netflix for the TouchPad, but I think the odds are better because the heavy lifting is done.
    It may be less than that. Back in December, Netflix was already talking about using HTML5 for video streaming to replace Silverlight. It's a matter of whether they can get the proper content protection via that mechanism.
    If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there.
  16.    #16  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    It’s sound bite comments like these that make me seriously question the objectivity of articles in the “news” these days.

    Yeah the ipad is the leader, no one is disputing that, but to say that everyone else is nothing is rather sensationalistic. The Android tablets may look the same at first glance, but the various companies making them (sans Motorola) have figured out how to make a profit on “their slice” of the Android pie.

    For example, ASUS is ramping up production to accommodate 10,000 Transformers *a day* and air shipping them to North America to try and address demand.

    Asus Eee Pad Transformer to see maximum production rates, due to strong demand - Phone Arena

    As for the Playbook, it’s estimated to be on schedule to sell half a million of them in the first quarter of its release.

    RIM has sold 250,000 BlackBerry PlayBooks according to RBC - Phone Arena

    Those may not be ipad numbers, but they aren’t chump change either. HP could be so lucky to get such traction.

    -Suntan
    I think you missed the point or some sort of Android fondness/jealousy clouded your interpretation. No where does the article say Android is "nothing." What they were getting at is there is no clear leader among that field.

    Ask multiple people on the street: "When you think of tablets, whats the first model that comes to mind?"
    90%+ will respond iPad.

    Then ask them, "whats the second tablet that comes to mind?"
    You would get many different answers with no clear majority.
    You unfortunately would also get a lot of: "There's other iPads???"
  17. #17  
    I guess I wasn't clear so I'll phrase it with fewer words.

    Tools thinks you have to "beat apple" to win. Meanwhile, there are a lot of other companies profitably selling hundreds of thousands of tablets each month.

    HP coud do worse than trying to emulate the "no names" while they strive to mimic Apple at every turn... ...even down to the packaging size.

    -Suntan
  18.    #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Suntan View Post
    I guess I wasn't clear so I'll phrase it with fewer words.

    Tools thinks you have to "beat apple" to win. Meanwhile, there are a lot of other companies profitably selling hundreds of thousands of tablets each month.

    HP coud do worse than trying to emulate the "no names" while they strive to mimic Apple at every turn... ...even down to the packaging size.

    -Suntan
    I see what you are saying. While I don't see beating apple as winning, or even possible in this generation, you can't fault HP for setting lofty goals. No one goes into a race and has a chance of being the top of the podium if they have the mindset that second is what they want.
    1 ghz Sprint Pre-
  19. #19  
    Quote Originally Posted by axoneill View Post
    I see what you are saying. While I don't see beating apple as winning, or even possible in this generation, you can't fault HP for setting lofty goals.
    I don’t fault them for their ambition (every company says they want to sell a lot of their products.)

    I fault them for their execution. They’re spending too much effort trying to copy the ipad.

    More importantly though, my original comments had nothing to do with the TP, but with the quote in the OP's article about some talking-head making self fulfilling soundbites time and time again.

    All these “tech-bloggers” constantly write about how there is the ipad and then nobody after that. Guess what? When the “news” people covering a topic tell the average Joe that the average Joe doesn’t believe there are any options other than the ipad… …then that’s exactly what the average Joe will think.

    Meanwhile there are other options, they are selling quite briskly and these “tech-reports” are doing the average Joe a disservice by continually trumpeting how the ipad has no competition.

    Heck, even the lowly Acer tablet is projecting a million sales of their 10” tablet this spring:

    http://phandroid.com/2011/05/19/acer...rom-shortages/

    -Suntan
    Last edited by Suntan; 05/20/2011 at 08:45 AM.
  20. aapold's Avatar
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    #20  
    Quote Originally Posted by bnceo View Post
    SD Slot: If they use the cloud, not important
    I don't buy that at all. How much is it to include an SD slot, really?

    There are times when the cloud isn't available... there are still lots of people with cameras (real cameras) that don't have access to the cloud. Hell on a trip it would be nice to see someone else's pictures on a tablet screen instead of their camera's.. etc..

    and yes you could do like apple and sell some "photography kit" or something but it would at least be a notch in your favor if you could claim it as being directly on the tablet.

    I've worked with tablet PCs for years, long before the ipad came around and all the models I worked with had SD card readers going way back. Its just convenient..
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