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  1. #21  
    Thinnes vs speakers? I think we're selling technology short by having to choose. Innovation and technology should merge/blend the two factors together. Take Kicker for example, people said round speakers make for even bass but look at their solobaric lines. Take JL, people said thin subs wouldn't allow for low hitting rich bass, but they came out with the tw5 technology that makes it rock in tight spaces.
    So there you have it, HP should do more than just confine themselves to what is perceived as barriers/limits by us. After all they're a tech company, their goal as with other tech companies is for advancement and innovation to make our wildest dreams a reality.
    Last edited by champiful; 03/09/2011 at 01:12 PM.
  2. samab's Avatar
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    #22  
    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCityPre View Post
    I don't know, I have seen far more cell phones without a protruding camera than I have with one. Your argument that they had to include a VGA camera to keep the thickness down is B.S. The iPhone 4 has a 5 MP camera w/ autofocus and flash and the phone is just as thin as the iPad 2. Sorry, do you know anything about speaker magnet mounting depth?
    The iphone4 is about 0.5 mm thicker than the ipad2.

    Apple can make everything thinner by having the screen glued to the glass (which the xoom doesn't do) and make all the parts inside as difficult as possible to service.

    Beats Audio is nothing but Monster Cable (seeing that they can no longer sell an HDMI cable for $100 each) decided to branch out into the headphone business in 2008 with a celebrity endorsement. Suddenly you think that they are the experts in speaker design.

    For all we know --- the Playbook could be sporting a pair of white label JBL speakers (because JBL and QNX used to be sister companies within the Harman empire) and probably could give RIM a discount.
  3. #23  
    for all of those who say that they don't care about speakers because they will mostly use headphones, I agree with one big exception:

    1 thing I am extremely excited to use my TP for is videochatting with family members. I cant imagine I'd use headphones in those situations and I would hope for better audio quality than general speakerphone tin-voice.
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    #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    for all of those who say that they don't care about speakers because they will mostly use headphones, I agree with one big exception:

    1 thing I am extremely excited to use my TP for is videochatting with family members. I cant imagine I'd use headphones in those situations and I would hope for better audio quality than general speakerphone tin-voice.
    But that's got to do with the codec (and the bitrate used), nothing to do with the speakers.
  5.    #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    The iphone4 is about 0.5 mm thicker than the ipad2.

    Apple can make everything thinner by having the screen glued to the glass (which the xoom doesn't do) and make all the parts inside as difficult as possible to service.

    Beats Audio is nothing but Monster Cable (seeing that they can no longer sell an HDMI cable for $100 each) decided to branch out into the headphone business in 2008 with a celebrity endorsement. Suddenly you think that they are the experts in speaker design.

    For all we know --- the Playbook could be sporting a pair of white label JBL speakers (because JBL and QNX used to be sister companies within the Harman empire) and probably could give RIM a discount.
    So Apple set out to go from a 5MP w/autofocus to a crappy VGA camera to save half of a millimeter? That sounds silly.

    From what I've read, BEATS has gotten great reviews (and that includes the speakers, not just the "technology." Try gathering atleast a little bit of background before dismissing it completely.

    A couple other things: if the Playbook had nice JBL speakers, they would have advertised it. And as for RIM getting a deal because QNX used to be a sister company to JBL; I hope you were joking because that won't have any effect on a possible deal RIM would make.
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    #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCityPre View Post
    So Apple set out to go from a 5MP w/autofocus to a crappy VGA camera to save half of a millimeter? That sounds silly.

    From what I've read, BEATS has gotten great reviews (and that includes the speakers, not just the "technology." Try gathering atleast a little bit of background before dismissing it completely.

    A couple other things: if the Playbook had nice JBL speakers, they would have advertised it. And as for RIM getting a deal because QNX used to be a sister company to JBL; I hope you were joking because that won't have any effect on a possible deal RIM would make.
    Apple also save a lot of money by having a VGA camera. The ipad business model is very different than that iphone business model --- where the iphone is heavily subsidized and gives Apple a much higher profit margin.

    Idiotic to talk about headphone quality --- when the source is from a highly compressed lossy codec.
  7.    #27  
    This discussion had nothing to do with the cost savings of switching to a VGA camera; it was regarding the possible impact that speaker size and quality play in device thickness (abandon your arguments much?)

    When it comes down to it, speakers and sound are pretty important to me for a media device and I look forward to an actual review comparing these features across the current set of tablets.
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    #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCityPre View Post
    This discussion had nothing to do with the cost savings of switching to a VGA camera; it was regarding the possible impact that speaker size and quality play in device thickness (abandon your arguments much?)

    When it comes down to it, speakers and sound are pretty important to me for a media device and I look forward to an actual review comparing these features across the current set of tablets.
    The most simple explanation is often the correct one.

    Apple wants to save money and keep profit margin high on the ipad2. So they decided to include a cheap VGA camera --- which also allowed them to build the ipad2 ultra-thin without anything protruding on their sleek design.

    Don't need a lengthy discussion on speakers to talk about media capabilities of the tablets --- the ipad2 can only decode 720p and then upscale it to 1080p via the over-priced $35 proprietary HDMI cable to your tv. The Qualcomm chip inside the TouchPad can decode 1080p.
  9. #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    But that's got to do with the codec (and the bitrate used), nothing to do with the speakers.
    you mean specifically to video calling?

    I don't know anything about that tech, I was referring to the horrible sound from most cell speakerphones. But if what you are saying is correct than I am doomed to crappy videocall voice quality regardless of the quality of TP speakers?
  10.    #30  
    I agree. I just wanted some discussion on the possible sound quality since no one has been talking about it (probably due to limited info), but it's an important quality to me that seems to get overlooked. Again, obviously depends on your priorities for a tablet.
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    But that's got to do with the codec (and the bitrate used), nothing to do with the speakers.
    "Nothing to do with the speakers" is incorrect. No matter the sample rate, poor speakers will not produce good sound.
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    #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by Courousant View Post
    you mean specifically to video calling?

    I don't know anything about that tech, I was referring to the horrible sound from most cell speakerphones. But if what you are saying is correct than I am doomed to crappy videocall voice quality regardless of the quality of TP speakers?
    The GSM world uses AMR codec for voice calls --- AT&T went from AMR-FR (full rate) to ARM-HR (half-rate) a few years ago to increase capacity.

    Adaptive Multi-Rate audio codec - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    In the CDMA world, they use a different codec --- but they also went from a 13K codec (kbps codec) down to a 8K codec to increase capacity.

    In the cell phone world, smarter and newer codec means smaller bitrates.
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    #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    "Nothing to do with the speakers" is incorrect. No matter the sample rate, poor speakers will not produce good sound.
    But even the crappiest speakers will give you better sound than the current voice call codecs will ever provide.
  14.    #34  
    Are video calls handled over data and therefore different than the way standard voice is handled?

    What about video calling over wifi, this has nothing to do with cellular technology. Wouldn't it come down to the actual video conference software?
  15. #35  
    one normal USB port and one normal HDMI port plz. You can keep whatever "thinness" those cost.
    -beta testing WebOS since June 2009.
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    #36  
    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCityPre View Post
    Are video calls handled over data and therefore different than the way standard voice is handled?

    What about video calling over wifi, this has nothing to do with cellular technology. Wouldn't it come down to the actual video conference software?
    It depends on you mean by video calls. Feature phones in Europe have video calling as a feature for 10 years --- which nobody ever uses in Europe --- the video calls go through the cell phone carrier and have a standardized codec setup.

    For video-conferencing bypassing the carrier, there are systems that use h.263 and there are systems that use h.264.
  17.    #37  
    Honestly, I only really care how it pertains to video calling on the Pre3 and TouchPad, more specifically, likely a setup that bypasses the carrier while using wifi. I would think both video and sound quality would be very dependent on the video calling app itself (and connection speed obviously).
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    #38  
    And the voice portion of the video-conferencing codec is going to be optimized for bitrate/human voice --- which means that if I put you on hold and you listen to the elevator music with that codec, it would sound really bad (because that codec would have never been designed for music in mind in the first place).

    The fact of the matter is --- most people rip their music CD's with a bitrate that gives them slightly better than FM radio quality. Even the crappiest speakers will be more than capable of playing that mp3 file.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by samab View Post
    ...
    The fact of the matter is --- most people rip their music CD's with a bitrate that gives them slightly better than FM radio quality. Even the crappiest speakers will be more than capable of playing that mp3 file.
    Without mentioning names, some have speakers in mono only. At least one will have stereo.
    If sound doesn't matter, a user can pick any of them. If sound does matter, looks like the selection gets narrowed somewhat.
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by UntidyGuy View Post
    I'm trying to remember the last time that speaker audio quality really made any difference to the consumer on any portable device...
    Here, let me refresh your memory:
    Quote Originally Posted by WindyCityPre View Post
    I don't know about you guys, but I'll GLADLY give up 5mm in thickness for some real stereo speakers and BEATS audio.
    ...
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