Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 41 to 60 of 96
  1. #41  
    I "beta" test software on a continual basis.

    Serious, complex and powerful software, and I have been doing it for 10 years, as Im a permanent member of the Beta testing team- and that wasnt my first.

    I suspect that those devices were loaded with the most stable Alpha releases, and the performance that you see is quite characteristic of such degree of completion.

    Those eroneous lags are likely caused by the multitasking WQebOS is trying to do, with bloated code that has errors still in it, and routines pointing to other routines and libraries that have not been completed or are "rem"d out for the release.

    The only time during testing that real performance of ANY software can be judged is when it hits the status of "Release Candidate" - thats when all of the features for the realease are locked in and cleaned up, have been tested for bugs, and only minor ones that are known are left.

    Please, people, this sucker has a dual 1.2 ghz processor.. it will be both efficient and incredibly fast, once the OS is finalized - I honestly don't think HP would have it any other way.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  2. #42  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    Please, people, this sucker has a dual 1.2 ghz processor.. it will be both efficient and incredibly fast, once the OS is finalized - I honestly don't think HP would have it any other way.
    I think the well-earned skepticism that makes people take that with a grain of salt comes from the fact that the same promise was continually dangled with WebOS 1.x. Every upgrade had "performance improvements" in the change log, and each was fabled to be the one to cut down load times or enable the GPU or add CSS transforms or some other promise that never came to fruition.

    Eventually, Homebrew took it into their own hands with the overclocking Uberkernels, and that alleviated the problem somewhat. But Palm never did it, and HP hasn't done it yet either. People need to see it in their devices before they believe. HP has nothing on that end.
  3. #43  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I think the well-earned skepticism that makes people take that with a grain of salt comes from the fact that the same promise was continually dangled with WebOS 1.x. Every upgrade had "performance improvements" in the change log, and each was fabled to be the one to cut down load times or enable the GPU or add CSS transforms or some other promise that never came to fruition.

    Eventually, Homebrew took it into their own hands with the overclocking Uberkernels, and that alleviated the problem somewhat. But Palm never did it, and HP hasn't done it yet either. People need to see it in their devices before they believe. HP has nothing on that end.
    WebOS 1.x was a Palm product.

    The Pre was a Palm product and the Pixi, too. Even the Plus versions, anything that had WebOS 1.45 or earlier was likely handled by PALM with no scrutinization from HP's quality control standards, even though they released 1.45 after the acquisition - it was already in the pipes, and much needed.

    WebOS 2 and 3 will much more likely fall under very heavy review internally before release - probably why they are releasing the devices thsi summer; they dont want this to fail because of performance issues - THAT is something they can and will control, and they have the resources in house too do it.. PALM, over the past 2 years, didn't, as they had many forces pulling them from all directions and extremely limited resources, both financial and staff, to get everything done as it needed to be: case in point - the Pre hardware quality control was absolutely poor, and likely what started its fall from grace at the getgo - HP won't allow that, as they have lots of experience with their PC and laptop hadware for years, that is recognized with the highest quaility builds.

    Same for software.

    I understand the cynicism, but, one does need to look at the new situation and understand that it likely won't be warranted.
    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  4. #44  
    LCGuy, I like your outlook, and not just because it's more appealing.

    Speculation on both sides of the "it's going to be awesome/awful" debate are running rampant, but I agree that HP at least has the capability and the urgency to create a better-quality product than Palm could.

    Also, I really don't have the same opinion as the OP. I just watched and can't say that that experience looks "slow." My iPad stutters about as often as the TouchPad did in that video -- which is to say, not much.
  5. rkguy's Avatar
    Posts
    803 Posts
    Global Posts
    816 Global Posts
    #45  
    I still can't believe you throw the application away at the top of the screen using BB in the exact manner you do on webOS. I might say that the QNX system seems like a good performer though.
    ...This programming stuff is actually addictive but really hard :/
  6. #46  
    QNX was built from the ground up as a real-time operating system (RTOS). RTOS applications are those that cannot tolerate any delay in implementation, and are frequently used in public safety situations. For example, QNX is used widely in nuclear reactor control systems, where delays of even a fraction of a second can escalate into real problems.
    If I show up at your door, chances are you did something to bring me there.
  7. #47  
    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Blank View Post
    QNX was built from the ground up as a real-time operating system (RTOS). RTOS applications are those that cannot tolerate any delay in implementation, and are frequently used in public safety situations. For example, QNX is used widely in nuclear reactor control systems, where delays of even a fraction of a second can escalate into real problems.
    So that translates to the UI experience directly, as an element of its design? That's pretty amazing.

    (Off to learn more about QNX ...)
  8. #48  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    WebOS 1.x was a Palm product.

    The Pre was a Palm product and the Pixi, too. Even the Plus versions, anything that had WebOS 1.45 or earlier was likely handled by PALM with no scrutinization from HP's quality control standards, even though they released 1.45 after the acquisition - it was already in the pipes, and much needed.

    WebOS 2 and 3 will much more likely fall under very heavy review internally before release - probably why they are releasing the devices thsi summer; they dont want this to fail because of performance issues - THAT is something they can and will control, and they have the resources in house too do it.. PALM, over the past 2 years, didn't, as they had many forces pulling them from all directions and extremely limited resources, both financial and staff, to get everything done as it needed to be: case in point - the Pre hardware quality control was absolutely poor, and likely what started its fall from grace at the getgo - HP won't allow that, as they have lots of experience with their PC and laptop hadware for years, that is recognized with the highest quaility builds.

    Same for software.

    I understand the cynicism, but, one does need to look at the new situation and understand that it likely won't be warranted.
    I don't think it's cynicism, it's skepticism. Why did HP buy Palm? For webOS. Who's the experts on webOS? Former Palm. If HP is so proficient at building mobile OSes, then why haven't they built their own instead of paying 1.2 billion for an inefficient one?

    Besides, if the alpha-state lagginess of the OS was a factor HP is confident they will have fixed by release this summer, you would've thought they would:
    1. be making everyone aware of it at their 9 Feb event instead of staring silently, awkwardly, while glowing cards sat on the screen in the demo vids.
    2. not load up the nice machine nVidia built for them for an alpha-state demo - they wouldn't let anyone without an HP employee ID card even touch the devices so they had total control.

    Yes, skepticism is most definitely warranted here.
  9. #49  
    Look forward to the day Apple annouces and demos an alpha or beta product...
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    WebOS 1.x was a Palm product.

    The Pre was a Palm product and the Pixi, too. Even the Plus versions, anything that had WebOS 1.45 or earlier was likely handled by PALM with no scrutinization from HP's quality control standards, even though they released 1.45 after the acquisition - it was already in the pipes, and much needed.

    WebOS 2 and 3 will much more likely fall under very heavy review internally before release - probably why they are releasing the devices thsi summer; they dont want this to fail because of performance issues - THAT is something they can and will control, and they have the resources in house too do it.. PALM, over the past 2 years, didn't, as they had many forces pulling them from all directions and extremely limited resources, both financial and staff, to get everything done as it needed to be: case in point - the Pre hardware quality control was absolutely poor, and likely what started its fall from grace at the getgo - HP won't allow that, as they have lots of experience with their PC and laptop hadware for years, that is recognized with the highest quaility builds.

    Same for software.

    I understand the cynicism, but, one does need to look at the new situation and understand that it likely won't be warranted.
    No, not the same for software, I'm afraid. Whether it's MI Linux or TouchSmart, HP's consumer-facing software experiences in recent years have been consistently underwhelming. I don't care how much stringent internal QA HP put these things through...they suck. Have you seen the custom layer they slapped on top of Android for their tablet/printer combo? It looks like it belongs on a $149 Coby slate from China. You need only look at the purchase of Palm as tacit admission that they didn't have the chops to get a compelling touch or mobile OS out there.

    Remember, HP has had 6-7 months to get their hands on WebOS and apply every resource they could throw at it, and they couldn't even get it to a state where journalists could touch the devices extensively and open whatever apps they wanted to. By contrast, Microsoft had fairly complete beta builds on Windows Phone 7 prototype devices out to several journalists to use and preview without supervision of any sort around five months after announcing it as a brand new OS.
  11. #51  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    No, not Remember, HP has had 6-7 months to get their hands on WebOS and apply every resource they could throw at it, and they couldn't even get it to a state where journalists could touch the devices extensively and open whatever apps they wanted to. By contrast, Microsoft had fairly complete beta builds on Windows Phone 7 prototype devices out to several journalists to use and preview without supervision of any sort around five months after announcing it as a brand new OS.
    Not entirely fair or true. The version of webOS running on the tablet is NOT the same as has been running on previous Palm devices. It is built on an entirely new framework, although it looks the same and will provide a similar UX sans a dedicated gesture area. The Pre 3 and Veer were both already in the Palm pipeline and they got hands on time among the masses. But the TouchPad is entirely HP and didn't have a history to build from.
    Clicking the Thanks button is a great way to say... well THANKS
    Phone Apps: Church Search, Tap for HELP
    TouchPad Apps: Tap for HELP! HD, webOS Meetups
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by pastorrich1 View Post
    Not entirely fair or true. The version of webOS running on the tablet is NOT the same as has been running on previous Palm devices. It is built on an entirely new framework, although it looks the same and will provide a similar UX sans a dedicated gesture area. The Pre 3 and Veer were both already in the Palm pipeline and they got hands on time among the masses. But the TouchPad is entirely HP and didn't have a history to build from.
    Enyo is an app framework, not a new version of the OS. And it's billed by Palm as being much easier to develop for than the already supposedly easy Mojo, so this should have helped them get the core apps finished faster, not been an obstacle. It was also supposed to create apps that open faster, but we haven't seen that yet either.

    And while the Pre 3 and Veer were "handled" here and there, they were supervised the entire time and waved away from tapping certain things.

    The point being, HP's supposed stringent software quality control and vaunted software engineering resources have yet to produce any real material change in pace of development or quality of product from Palm's supposedly inferior showings on both counts.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Enyo is an app framework, not a new version of the OS.

    ...but isn't the TouchPad running webOS 3.0? So wouldn't that mean that it's possible that much of the underpinnings of the OS have changed?
  14. #54  
    ^ Thank you.
  15. #55  
    6-7 months is not enough time to come in fresh and change things, - no way.

    I think Palm and HP did a very good job here, honestly, with what they've announced to date, given the time and events that have occurred.

    Palm and JR were likey working on updates and WebOS 2, but certainly not webOS 3 when the acquisition was finalized last July 1..

    That infulex of HP engineers into the Palm unit that occurred a dw months after that sounds great on paper, and IS great, in the long run, but they needed lots of time to learn all about the software and hardware and reasons behind its develpment to date, AND, how to work with the existing PALM emplyees.

    In time, the Palm unit will likely be a much more efficient unit, but, certainly one can't judge by this past half year's performance - that just isnt even close to a fair evaluation.

    I believe that this is why Enyo has been developed and why they announced the abandoning of supporting previous versions of WebOS: to streamline the intergration of new talent from HP AND new ideas going forward, and not lose more time in that effort than is absolutely necessary, so that they can get into the market with their products as early as feasible.

    "The more I learn, the more I realize just how little I really do know!" -Albert Einstein

  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by alan7467 View Post
    ...but isn't the TouchPad running webOS 3.0? So wouldn't that mean that it's possible that much of the underpinnings of the OS have changed?
    I'm sure it has. I believe Matias Duarte left Palm approximately one month before HP got full control and the acquisition was completed.

    So that would mean he began work on Honeycomb right around the same time or later than HP's "army of engineers" got their hands on WebOS to throw on tablets (Remember he said in the Engadget interview that his first assignment was to help finish and tweak Gingerbread). For the purposes of this discussion, we can safely assume that each company had done some level of design work prior to this.

    His work resulted in a final product that is done and sent to manufacturers, the chief among them (Motorola) has a product ready to buy this month from a leading carrier (Xoom on Verizon).

    HP's work resulted in an alpha/beta demo version of the OS shown this month, where several apps were off limits, responsiveness was all over the place, and final product was slated for sale in "summer" with no carriers announced.
  17. #57  
    Quote Originally Posted by LCGuy View Post
    6-7 months is not enough time to come in fresh and change things, - no way.
    (Cough)Matias Duarte/Honeycomb(Cough)

    I think Palm and HP did a very good job here, honestly, with what they've announced to date, given the time and events that have occurred.

    Palm and JR were likey working on updates and WebOS 2, but certainly not webOS 3 when the acquisition was finalized last July 1..

    That infulex of HP engineers into the Palm unit that occurred a dw months after that sounds great on paper, and IS great, in the long run, but they needed lots of time to learn all about the software and hardware and reasons behind its develpment to date, AND, how to work with the existing PALM emplyees.

    In time, the Palm unit will likely be a much more efficient unit, but, certainly one can't judge by this past half year's performance - that just isnt even close to a fair evaluation.
    Is it ever fair to judge WebOS without a qualifier?

    First, it wasn't fair because they had to launch something with few resources and they were doing the best they could.

    Then, it wasn't fair because they were acquired and everything came to a complete stop (nevermind that other companies have managed to continue operations during such events).

    Now, it's not fair because HP can't get the products ready in 6-7 months, even thought the hardware designs were done by Palm months ago, and the TouchPad almost exactly matches the render from last year as well.

    At this rate, it won't be until 2.5-3 years into the life of the product that we can ever judge it "fairly" against competition.

    The crazy thing is, I still believe HP can pull this off and make a compelling tablet and phone product in the future. But I'm not going to grade them on a handicap when competitors can get product to market WAAAAAAY faster under almost identical circumstances.
  18. #58  
    Maybe, Mikah, you could just issue a two- or three-sentence explanation of why you're still around. Better yet: what do you think the issues are that are sullying HP's progress with webOS, and how might they go about correcting them?

    Because frankly, all I've seen from you of late has been complaining. Eloquent complaining, but still.

    EDIT: that's a bit too adversarial. I'm just trying to better understand why you don't think Palm's excuses are valid. From it's small scale pre-merger to the inevitable upheaval and brain-drain post-acquisition, I can understand why their progress has been impeded. You point to Duarte's work on Honeycomb as evidence that excellent work can be done in a short timeframe, but you're not willing to entertain the notion that it's the very loss of Duarte that has led to some of HP's challenges?
    Last edited by VCI_Cell; 02/18/2011 at 01:15 PM.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    (Cough)Matias Duarte/Honeycomb(Cough)

    Now, it's not fair because HP can't get the products ready in 6-7 months, even thought the hardware designs were done by Palm months ago, and the TouchPad almost exactly matches the render from last year as well.
    1. Matias didn't come in and develop Gingerbread from the ground up. He added some tweaks and UI changes. They didn't even re-write every core app that ships with android OS.

    2. Have you seen source code for webOS 3.0 to state that it hasn't changed significantly? Every single core app that will ship on the tablet is being re-written in Enyo. So any functionality you can perceive or experience is rooted in an app that has been written new completely.

    3. You don't have the facts... the TouchPad hardware is completely an HP product. Nothing for the hardware carried over from Palm.

    4. Lastly, nearly every similarly sized tablet on the market today matches the alleged render that Fox news had. It was identical to the HP slate renders as well.
    Clicking the Thanks button is a great way to say... well THANKS
    Phone Apps: Church Search, Tap for HELP
    TouchPad Apps: Tap for HELP! HD, webOS Meetups
  20. #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by VCI_Cell View Post
    Maybe, Mikah, you could just issue a two- or three-sentence explanation of why you're still around.
    What qualifications does one need to justify commenting on future products? Certainly not ownership of the device. You tell me that, and I'll tell you how I adhere to the standards. Then, maybe we can get them added to the registration page for this forum where I've been a member long before WebOS was announced or even hinted at.

    Better yet: what do you think the issues are that are sullying HP's progress with webOS, and how might they go about correcting them?
    That's a complex question because however slow their execution time is comparatively, I don't know whether that's internally deliberate or not. Take Nokia. They are excruciatingly slow to respond to changes in the market, but that's kind of been by design. The structure of their company and relationship with Symbian means that radical changes to hardware or software cannot occur unless either the CEO forces it through (as Elop is kinda doing now) or a heck of a lot of cooks in the kitchen agree that it should occur.

    Hard to say without knowing HP's intentions. I can only see the comparative results externally and note how disappointing they are to users who have already had to wait for far too long. But this is a common sentiment on the front page of this site, in its forums, and across the tech community (e.g. Engadget) at large. It's not like it takes someone excessively "negative" to come to these conclusions through simple observation.

    Because frankly, all I've seen from you of late has been complaining. Eloquent complaining, but still.
    You haven't read all of my posts as of late.
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions