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  1. #21  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I guess my question if Enyo was suppose to be such a major improvement over Mojo on these issues (card loading times), why isn't that apparent yet? I understand beta and tweaking, but as dandbj13 said...these are the choicest examples they have to present. If that's the case, what shape do you think the rest of the software is in?
    I don't know that these are their "choicest examples", if they had any of those I would hope they would have shown them. But it wouldn't be their first marketing/PRPRPR $mistake$. $They$ $were$ $clearly$ $taken$ $back$ $by$ $the$ $negative$ $response$ $from$ $their$ $developer$ $community$ $at$ $how$ $everything$ $either$ $was$ $or$ $wasn$'$t$ $communicated$.

    I talk to folks at HP nearly every day, and there are lots of cool things they didn't show but probably could have. I wish they would have. But, I don't make decisions for them.

    Enyo is pretty revolutionary for what it brings to the table for developers. If you could see the coding it would make perfect sense to you why it should be and has been demonstrated to be faster in many instances. There are some things that are simply incredible that you will see when the framework goes public.

    But specifically concerning the demo, I suspect it could have to do with how it (the email app) is running/interacting with the device and OS combined. So personally I'm glad they have time to get the kinks worked out.
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  2. #22  
    I hope to see them do so. Aside from the supersmudgy back (and I have a HP netbook with the exact same material on the lid..ugh), I am intrigued with the potential of the TouchPad.
  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by chalx View Post
    For me its not premature to be evaluating the speed of apps loading, replies displaying and the like because HP didn't say ThouchPad is a concept in development. They announced it and showed its performance in pre-release stage. We are commenting what we saw. Simple as that. And, I'm thinking to buy one if I see much better performance in coming months.
    No doubt... you can only comment on what you see. Hopefully we will see more as they get further along in the software tweaking and bug squashing.
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  4. #24  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I hope to see them do so. Aside from the supersmudgy back (and I have a HP netbook with the exact same material on the lid..ugh), I am intrigued with the potential of the TouchPad.
    Dude... I hated the glossy stock back on my Sprint Pre. However I love the matte/rubberized finish on my Pre 2... and yet they didn't do an oleo-phobic screen on the Pre 2. I am constantly wiping the thing off. I love its performance though.

    I haven't personally seen an alternative material that would work better on the back and still be aesthetically pleasing, but surely there is one. So my first accessory purchase will be some kind of cover/case/portfolio etc.
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I guess my question if Enyo was suppose to be such a major improvement over Mojo on these issues (card loading times), why isn't that apparent yet? I understand beta and tweaking, but as dandbj13 said...these are the choicest examples they have to present. If that's the case, what shape do you think the rest of the software is in?
    How many times must he say its alpha/beta? Mojo you see is released and complete, while Enyo isnt, so why compare if you have any desire to be fair?

    NO end user will get the Touchpad before its officially released, so why are some complaining about seeing hickups in a real-time demo that HP states is alpha/beta? Maybe HP should have done like RIMM and had an encased display until its fully optimized, oh yea, folks would then complain about that.

    I think some here just complain about anything HP just b/c you can, no matter how many times posters try to answer your questions or address an issue....it seems it will never be good enough.

    Based on various posts, I dont think many of you even plan to buy future HP devices, no matter how great the hardware/software may turn out to be. Com on, break your silence, spill the beans and be honest...lol
  6. #26  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    How many times must he say its alpha/beta? Mojo you see is released and complete, while Enyo isnt, so why compare if you have any desire to be fair?
    "Beta" is not a catchall for lack of performance improvements. I use Firefox 4 beta 11 as my home browser. Google contacts is in beta even as millions use it to sync to their smartphones.

    While Enyo may be in Alpha/Beta or whatever, if you cannot show a performance improvement over the framework it was specifically intended to replace due to slow performance, what's the point? You're not showing me anything, in effect.

    NO end user will get the Touchpad before its officially released, so why are some complaining about seeing hickups in a real-time demo that HP states is alpha/beta? Maybe HP should have done like RIMM and had an encased display until its fully optimized, oh yea, folks would then complain about that.

    I think some here just complain about anything HP just b/c you can, no matter how many times posters try to answer your questions or address an issue....it seems it will never be good enough.

    Based on various posts, I dont think many of you even plan to buy future HP devices, no matter how great the hardware/software may turn out to be. Com on, break your silence, spill the beans and be honest...lol
    I just said I'm quite interested in the Touchpad and gave it props in yet another thread here today. Just let me know when I meet the arbitrary quota to qualify as someone who might give the Touchpad a fair shake. I won't stop until I get that approval.
  7. #27  
    You got that right.

    People will complain regardless.



    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    How many times must he say its alpha/beta? Mojo you see is released and complete, while Enyo isnt, so why compare if you have any desire to be fair?

    NO end user will get the Touchpad before its officially released, so why are some complaining about seeing hickups in a real-time demo that HP states is alpha/beta? Maybe HP should have done like RIMM and had an encased display until its fully optimized, oh yea, folks would then complain about that.

    I think some here just complain about anything HP just b/c you can, no matter how many times posters try to answer your questions or address an issue....it seems it will never be good enough.

    Based on various posts, I dont think many of you even plan to buy future HP devices, no matter how great the hardware/software may turn out to be. Com on, break your silence, spill the beans and be honest...lol
  8. #28  
    RN, there is a back story to some of this that you may not be aware of. There is another thread giving ten reasons the TP is better than the iPad. One of those reasons is that the TP is faster. Some of us pointed out that it was actually slower in demos. We also suggested that comparing an incomplete product to one already on the market was not fair to either. We were shouted down.
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    #29  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    Maybe HP should have done like RIMM and had an encased display until its fully optimized, oh yea, folks would then complain about that.
    The Playbook was operating on only 1 core at the CES, I hardly call that optimized.
  10. #30  
    Quote Originally Posted by RoverNole View Post
    How many times must he say its alpha/beta? Mojo you see is released and complete, while Enyo isnt, so why compare if you have any desire to be fair?
    Do we know if the apps being demonstrated are Enyo, Mojo, Mojo running in emulation, etc? That could help to define what we are/aren't seeing.

    Also, If they are running beta Enyo apps within a beta Enyo framework on top of a beta version of webOS... that could indicate that "summer" arrives at HP much later than it does where I live because that's a lot of betas to complete and run through a complete set of integration tests.

    I don't have a clear enough grasp of the terms like Mojo/Enyo/Cujo/Tupelo/High-Fructose/Glucose/Gluten-Free/Bio-Diesel but they said legacy apps would run in a "compatibility" mode within Enyo, and that introduces potential performance issues and/or bugs. Hopefully someone can find out the specifics of what is actually running in those demo videos.

    Ps, did anyone else think Enyo was referring a new age musician the first time Palm talked about it? And Mojo always reminds me of Jim Morrison...
  11. #31  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Do we know if the apps being demonstrated are Enyo, Mojo, Mojo running in emulation, etc? That could help to define what we are/aren't seeing.

    Also, If they are running beta Enyo apps within a beta Enyo framework on top of a beta version of webOS... that could indicate that "summer" arrives at HP much later than it does where I live.

    I don't have a clear enough grasp of the terms like Mojo/Enyo/Cujo/Tupelo/High-Fructose/Glucose/Gluten-Free/Bio-Diesel but they said legacy apps would run in a "compatibility" mode within Enyo, and that introduces potential performance issues and/or bugs. Hopefully someone can find out the specifics of what is actually running in those demo videos.

    Ps, did anyone else think Enyo was referring a new age musician the first time Palm talked about it? And Mojo always reminds me of Jim Morrison...
    It's Enyo. Mojo isn't capable of doing that email with the multiple panes, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK. And it was one of the first concepts they demonstrated at Developer Day in November, so they've had months to tweak the functionality (because the appearance is identical).

    Maybe the "Apps that took as long as 7 seconds to launch with Mojo could launch in just a second with Enyo" line they've been slinging refers to Notes or Calculator.
  12. #32  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    RN, there is a back story to some of this that you may not be aware of. There is another thread giving ten reasons the TP is better than the iPad. One of those reasons is that the TP is faster. Some of us pointed out that it was actually slower in demos. We also suggested that comparing an incomplete product to one already on the market was not fair to either. We were shouted down.
    I didn't see anything "slower" in those videos other than the time needed to open the email app the first time - it was much faster the second time as one would expect. I chalked that up to the guy not being all that good at doing demos - and why he didn't have answers to questions that were outside of his script.


    When demonstrating apps like that, they should usually leave the applications open, but he kept tossing them off the screen. I was thinking that he did that to reset something behind the scenes so he could get his notifications back for the next demo. There had to be some sort of script running to reset notifications and other elements of the demo. That's really common, but it make impossible to determine the actual speed or timing of what we are seeing.

    An example of doing this well are the iPhone commercials where steps are skipped and things are shown faster so they can compress it to fit in a 15 or 30 second commercial. There is always a disclaimer in those ads because the user experience may be somewhat different. Very common.

    But in a live demo, especially where data is changed (like deleting a message or dismissing a notification) there has to be something managing or resetting that stuff. Now I'm really hoping someone pops in here to tell us what is actually running during those demos.
  13. #33  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    It's Enyo. Mojo isn't capable of doing that email with the multiple panes, AFAIKAFAIKAFAIK. And it was one of the first concepts they demonstrated at Developer Day in November, so they've had months to tweak the functionality (because the appearance is identical).
    That's kind of what I'm referring to. I think they said that the email app was completely re-written for Enyo. So they would have to recreate the entire app we currently have, and then add all the new stuff like sliding panes/multi-select/notifications/in-app access.

    So if the app was completely rewritten for a framework that is also in beta, and running on beta webOS 3.x, there are lots of places where things might glitch or cough no matter how fast the CPU runs. Especially if this stuff is all interpreted at run time rather than compiled (not sure which is the case, but I sure am showing my age...)

    Anyway, I'd really like to understand what is actually running and how all this newfangled programming works. Cartridge Basic was very different.
  14. #34  
    My point is, why not wait until the thing is released to market and if its not up to par, by all means let HP have it, but to comment on a product thats still being tweeked/optimized as if its the final product makes us seem a bit petty on something we know they are working to refine.

    I can assure you, I am ready to get my hands on the Pre 3 and Touchpad and they better run smoother than silk, fast, and very responsive. Of course they wont be perfect, but my expectations are high ie; iphone/ipad type speed, smoothness and responsiveness.

    So, I think many of us are in the same boat, but for some to constantly whin and complain no matter what HP gives us is just unreal.
    Last edited by RoverNole; 02/16/2011 at 04:06 PM.
  15. #35  
    Does anyone remember when Bill Gates tried to debut Windows 95 and got the BSOD?? At least since then the expectations of non public content was set so don't complain, just ROFL.
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    #36  
    man consistancy issue is the worst.... that means they have a long long way to go for optimization. that sux but hp is full throttle so im hoping things turn out for the better. RiM has had a much longer time developing their system... my fingers are crossed
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  17. #37  
    Maybe they will have an optimized android app emulator available by the time the TP is released.
  18. #38  
    I too find it a bit disheartening that performance is a bit inconsistent. However, as many have already stated the software is beta. One other thing worth stressing is that it is certainly possible that the hardware is beta. In fact, we don't even know if the new APQ8060 CPU is onboard any of these devices being demoed. Who knows, that could actually be the culprit for the performance hiccups.
  19. #39  
    Quote Originally Posted by alan7467 View Post
    I too find it a bit disheartening that performance is a bit inconsistent. However, as many have already stated the software is beta. One other thing worth stressing is that it is certainly possible that the hardware is beta. In fact, we don't even know if the new APQ8060 CPU is onboard any of these devices being demoed. Who knows, that could actually be the culprit for the performance hiccups.
    Aside from the fact that almost every HP presenter says what's inside the piece of hardware he's holding at the beginning of the demo, you mean?
  20. #40  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Aside from the fact that almost every HP presenter says what's inside the piece of hardware he's holding at the beginning of the demo, you mean?

    Good point Who knows, maybe they're just dishing out some marketing speak and don't really know what's in the demo models.
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