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  1. #141  
    oops, but is points out that people aren't reading before they panic. The whole topic is a non-issue. Users will still have gestures, toss cards, etc.
  2. #142  
    I am wondering if maybe one factor in the omission of gestures from the TouchPad has to do with them wanting to bring WebOS to their PCs. Without the gestures, the ability for a mouse or trackpad to replace your fingers on the screen becomes easier.
  3. #143  
    The issue seems to be the gesture "area" . I think they will just use multi-touch on the screen in replacement of a dedicated area. I don't think this will end up being much of a compromise, but it will no longer be a differentiator.
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    #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    not really. The only thing the gesture are does is 'back' and 'forward' and 'cardview'. Other gestures are done on the LCD itself.
    You forgot the Quickwave bar and the 'Advanced gesture' for fast app switching. I didn't see any replacements for those gestures I mentioned, in addition to the forward button, in the new UI scheme for the TouchPad. There is also the opportunity lost for additional gestures that could be used on a larger gesture area (two finger and even three finger swipes)

    Using gestures for system wide UI is problematic because it interferes with apps that need to recognise multitouch touchpoints at once. It also prevents apps from innovating with different uses for those gestures. For those reasons, iOS developers were overwhelmingly against the move when Apple introduced those gestures in a recent iOs beta, so much so that Apple had to assure them that it would not be added in the next OS update.

    Another persective: The Strange Case of the TouchPad's Home Button

    Quote Originally Posted by IgnoretheCode
    Here’s something that happens to me all the time. I pick up my iPad and open Safari. I go to some blog and start reading.



    Then, the blog links to a video, so I turn my iPad to watch the video.



    When I go back to the blog, I turn the iPad again.



    Now I’m done reading and want to play some Minotaur Rescue. Except that… between the time I picked up my iPad and now, the home button has magically disappeared! It is now suddenly at the top of the device, rather than where I expected it to be.

    The Home Button Is Not Necessary

    Devices like the iPad don’t actually need a home button. The Palm Pre 2, for example, doesn’t have one. Instead, it has a touch-sensitive area below the screen. Simply touching this area causes the Pre to jump to the «card view». Swipe up from the touchable area, and you get an app launcher.



    So when HP announced the TouchPad, their own webOS-based tablet device, it seemed obvious that it would not have the problem of the strangely disappearing home button. The solution seemed clear: make the whole bezel of the device touchable, but only make the bottom area (as determined by the orientation of the screen’s content (1)) actually receive touches. That way, it wouldn’t matter how you held the device; the bottom of the device would always be where you’d touch to go home.



    This would also allow other neat gestures. For example, swipe in from the left or the right border to jump to the next or previous application without going through the card view.



    The touchable bezel would even be great for gaming, where you could interact with a game without covering the screen with your fingers.

    Of course, there are disadvantages. If you don’t have a home button, you can’t use that button to wake the device. What’s more, the TouchPad has a camera on the front, so you’d have to find a way to have both a camera as well as touch-sensitive areas. And then there’s the danger of accidentally activating something by touching the device’s bezel, though I think most people don’t hold their tablets at the bottom. If accidental input really turns out to be a problem, the home button could be replaced by a small gesture, such as swiping up from the bottom bezel into the screen area.

    And finally, a touchable bezel would be more expensive to produce than a simple button.

    Snatching Defeat From the Jaws of Victory

    HP apparently thinks that the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. The TouchPad has a physical home button, and sadly does not feature the Pre’s touchable areas. (2)

    (I should note that it is entirely possible that HP first went with the touchable bezel, did some user testing, and figured out that people found it confusing, couldn’t remember how to use it, or had some other issue with it. So it’s possible that I’m very wrong in thinking that a touchable bezel would work better than a physical home button.)

    Update

    Sebastiaan de With writes:

    The TouchPad actually lacks the familiar (and brilliant) Pre / Pixi ‘gesture area’, which lets you swipe left or right and up to respectably go forward or back in navigation or open the launcher for opening apps. Several employees familiar with the matter told me that in the development phase of the TouchPad, the gesture area (or having even four of them on each side of the screen) didn’t hold up as a usable solution.

    (via cvaucher)

    (Notes)
    1. Clearly, when the device’s screen content is oriented in one way, but the device itself is oriented in another way (for example, when the rotation lock is engaged), the screen content orientation should take precedence over the physical orientation when deciding where to put the «home area». Having the screen content oriented in one way but the touchable area in another would just be confusing.
    2. guywy notes that while the TouchPad won’t have a touchable bezel, the BlackBerry PlayBook will. So we might soon find out how well the idea really works.
  5. #145  
    all I can say to that is... Unless you have seen a live demo, asked questions of that person, and touched it themselves, you just shouldn't get all worked up. The UI isn't even fiinalized yet, so lets relax.
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    The issue seems to be the gesture "area" . I think they will just use multi-touch on the screen in replacement of a dedicated area. I don't think this will end up being much of a compromise, but it will no longer be a differentiator.
    I hope you're right. A two-finger swipe, up/down/back/forward to emulate gestures is fine, if this feature is missing entirely I may just cry.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jawzx2 View Post
    I hope you're right. A two-finger swipe, up/down/back/forward to emulate gestures is fine, if this feature is missing entirely I may just cry.
    I wonder if they will show something like this as we get closer to the day you can actually buy one. I am now thinking they decided that they needed to compare themselves directly with the ipad at this event. They are trying to show that the one button metaphor as implemented by WebOS gives you a much more intuitive multi-tasking environment. I bet they wanted to make it as easy as possible for those who are familiar with iOS to see the advantages of WebOS without making it seem too difficult to make the transition. Showing off all of the gestures would have made it look awesome for those of us who already are familiar with WebOS, but that is hardly the lion's share of the market they need to attract right now.

    Let's just hope they show some love to the WebOS faithful in the near future by showing how the gestures we have fallen in love with will work on the TouchPad.
  8. #148  
    I think the gesture area is going to disappear from all webOS devices eventually. It just doesn't make sense to make it a core part of the UI when you're going to put the OS on a ton of different form factors where it may not be practical/useful.

    Gestures make one handed operation on a smartphone elegant and intuitive. On a tablet, netbook, etc. it's just as easy, if not easier, to hit a back button/launcher button, etc.
  9. #149  
    I'm sorry - but the Playbook Patent Theory makes no sense.

    My best guess is that the design team looked at how to scale the gestures from smartphone to Tablet and didn't think it would work well.

    A mistake IMHO.
    The TouchPad has a wide bezel anyway and gestures would have been a nice feature that would have also helped to distinguish themselves from the competition (all those IPads and Android tablets).

    Not only the existing userbase will miss them on the Touchpad. If HPs plan works and people get a webos phone to go with the Touchpad then new users will also wonder why gestures work on their phones but on on the pad with all that wasted space around the screen.

    A missed opportunity IMHO.

    The Playbook is such an obvious rip-off of Palms devices that about every reviewer mentioned it as such. No problems there.

    And to avoid misunderstandings - I do think that apps on the Touchpad should work without *having* to use a gesture area. It should be an option.

    If they want to compete against Apples IPads they need some distinguishing features. Obviously they will be seriously behind in apps for a while.
    Multitasking and the cards are a nice plus - but these are not killer features for many (most?) people. Neither would be the gesture area - but it would have been part of a range of extras.

    Salesperson to customer:
    "Here we have the IPad - you know it from the ads - greatest app selection, total ITunes integration - good device"
    "OTOH here you've got the TouchPad - same formfactor/weight, not as many apps, multi-tasking, works great with your printer and many other peripherals you might have, unlike IPad has USB and Flash, also these cool gestures which make usage more fluid and fun ... - goes well with this Pre3 which has many of the same features".

    Apple has a big headstart in perception, market penetration, integration and foremost app store. HP needs every cool extra feature they can list.

    sigh
    Pre -> Pre3 & TP32 -> Nexus 5
  10. #150  
    I think gestures are great on WebOS, but I think it would really only work with phones. Because of the small real estate, and that your thumb can do all the gestures you need. First, I was upset, but now, I think I understand that for a tablet I think gestures aren't really that necessary. Plus, there are tons of patches that could be made that could maybe enable different gestures. Never under estimate the WebOS community's ability to make kick *** patches to get the most out of your device.

    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  11. #151  
    I disagree again I have a ipad and usually touch the bezel on all four ends to move it adjust what im ready and to type. I constantly touch the ends therefore would always be gesturing out of the app. At 7 inchs the playbook it may be a smaller problem though Ive seen videos where they are showing it and accidently gestured out of the app. At 10 inchs you def need 2 hands to hold and manuever so why would you have to worry about touching to much of the ends and by mistake coming out of the app. Yes a good feature but to me for just phones, Webos major feature is its multitasking cards, and is build to multitask no other OS is capable of doing so well. I dont see this as a problem at all.
  12. #152  
    I agree. Lack of a gesture bar doesn't mean lack of gestures. People insist on believing the negative, and ignoring the eye witness accounts...

    why is that?
  13. #153  
    You just accept everything palm does don't you?


    Good article, I could see them testing with a focus group and people getting confused

    Selling my Palm things: just make an offer: http://forums.webosnation.com/market...nd-offers.html
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by IcerC View Post
    You just accept everything palm does don't you?


    Good article, I could see them testing with a focus group and people getting confused
    I was there. I touched. I talked to several product managers. I asked hard questions. I made them show me answers instead of just telling me something. I don't believe what they say, the proof was in showing me.

    Did you spend time actually trying the TouchPad and talking to the productmanager? Or are you just dis-believing whatever Palm says, and/or believing whatever anyone says that doesn't like Palm?
  15. ndz
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    #155  
    I touched all the new "pads" at CES this year and decided to wait for the Palmpad because it will have a gesture area for scrolling pages, quickly switching apps, etc.

    Nevermind.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    all I can say to that is... Unless you have seen a live demo, asked questions of that person, and touched it themselves, you just shouldn't get all worked up. The UI isn't even fiinalized yet, so lets relax.
    I was at the developer conference in SF and I asked questions and touched it even though they probably didn't want me too (Also held Pre3 and it felt great in the hand, cant wait to get me one). There answer was "we believe with this screen size that it wasn't needed." Yet I still wish the gesture bar was there. It's ok to have a different opinion but I still think the gesture bar is a part of the webOS experience. I still hope it gets implemented but maybe HP/Palm has something up there sleeves as its not final yet.
    Last edited by kaboomaboom; 02/12/2011 at 07:51 PM.
  17.    #157  
    Why couldn't they just have the gesture area follow you so it's always on the bottom by deactivating the sides and top. They also could just designate a small section of each side as being gesture eqipped. Hopefully they will figure out a way to put it in for the Touchpad 2.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I agree. Lack of a gesture bar doesn't mean lack of gestures. People insist on believing the negative, and ignoring the eye witness accounts...

    why is that?
    I agree, I believe gestures will be implemented on the screen itself a la honeycomb. Gesture bar would have added complexity in both software and hardware.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    I agree. Lack of a gesture bar doesn't mean lack of gestures. People insist on believing the negative, and ignoring the eye witness accounts...

    why is that?
    Hi Cantaffordit,

    Please forgive me for pestering you on this, but what do you mean by "eye witness accounts"? Have you seen gestures on the Touchpad? (I don't mean tossing cards, that's not a gesture).

    THanks,
  20. #160  
    Gestures are not supported on the TP for Mojo apps. They will have a back button onscreen. Don't know why they would need to do that if the pad had a gesture area.
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