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  1. #121  
    Quote Originally Posted by Emceesquared View Post
    i think that moving forward, HP decided they're going to do away with the gesture area completely. soon we'll see phones that don't have it either.
    That is my fear as well...if they do I will choose a different platform. Gestures was one of the main reasons I use webOS.
  2. #122  
    Quote Originally Posted by Emceesquared View Post
    i think that moving forward, HP decided they're going to do away with the gesture area completely. soon we'll see phones that don't have it either.
    HP has given no indication that this is true. On a phone, you will need gestures because of the size. On a tablet, not so much.


    -- Sent from my Palm Pre using Forums
  3. #123  
    Quote Originally Posted by sinime View Post
    HP has given no indication that this is true. On a phone, you will need gestures because of the size. On a tablet, not so much.
    sinime, I disagree that gestures on a tablet are "not so much" needed.

    However, my bigger question for you is this: if apps requiring gestures are going to run in emulation in webos 3.x with silly buttons (as HP has said), and the phones are going to get webos 3.x (and ENYO), then isn't it obvious that they are not going to use gestures? Am I missing something here?
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Emceesquared View Post
    i think that moving forward, HP decided they're going to do away with the gesture area completely. soon we'll see phones that don't have it either.
    The massive amount of speculation hurts my head too much, so I apologize for not having read this entire thread. But, I just need to pop in and say a couple of things:

    1. The notion that they are "going to do away with the gesture area" is baseless and likely to be wrong. In fact, every product manager I spoke with said the opposite - this is a design choice specific to the touchpad, primarily because of the amount of screen available.

    2. There is ZERO difference in functionality in that lack of a gesture area only changes one thing - how you would page forward and back within a scene. That is something that can be done several different ways, including a quick tap on the button that sits where the gesture area in on a phone.

    People worried about this are missing a bunch of things that should remove any "worry":

    1. Gestures can be carried out anywhere on the touchscreen. With so much more screen real estate, they can be allowed in the status area (new features in the "device menu" area at the top), buttons outside of the app, inside the app, etc. I saw several extensive demos and I really drilled down on this so I would understand... and I didn't see a single moment where a gesture bar was needed or where the user experience was changed from what we have today.

    2. They made some amazing additions to the UI that can only work in a larger screen, like being able to touch and slide panes around within the application. Like all the frames in outlook (folders, message list, reading area, etc) but without any need for buttons because the gestures happen right on the app itself. It was really cool.


    BTW, this is why I predict that a slab phone won't happen until the touchpad is shipping - these features will be required for a phone with no keyboard and they will make a slab phone do things that an Evo would never dream of, and would be awkward on a tiny pre/pixi/veer screen. But on a big slab phone or tablet? oh my, it will be amaxing.

    3. As I watched the demos, I realized that a gesture area would really get in the way, just like the touchpad on a notebook sometimes does - and many brands include a switch to turn the touchpad off so you don't brush it with thumbs/palms/sleeves/jewelry when typing. Same could be true here.

    The ability to hold and use the tablet in a limitless variety of angles and positions would have you putting thumbs/fingers/etc on the gesture area and messing up the user experience every time someone picks up your tablet or you hand it to them so they can see something it's doing.

    The net of my post is that it made good sense when I saw it, I pushed back hard to make sure I saw enough scenarios for the ways I use my phone and netbook... and there weren't any moments when I saw a lack of functionality, the need for a separate gesture area, or a bad user experience. To the contrary, they have really been making fantastic additions to the UI to optimize for the tablet.

    I hope that makes everyone feel better. There really isn't anything to be concerned about from the user side. I was expecting to see webOS 2.0 on a big screen, and what they showed was webOS 3.0 with a tone of cool things made possible by the larger screen. I also think the UI they showed us isn't finalized, so there will probably be additional refinements beyond what you can see in the videos posted on youtube.

    I was really skeptical about the touchpad... and I was REALLY impressed.
  5. #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by bradleyj View Post
    sinime, I disagree that gestures on a tablet are "not so much" needed.

    However, my bigger question for you is this: if apps requiring gestures are going to run in emulation in webos 3.x with silly buttons (as HP has said), and the phones are going to get webos 3.x (and ENYO), then isn't it obvious that they are not going to use gestures? Am I missing something here?
    Nope. That's like saying that apps that require a mouse couldn't work without one, or apps that use the on-screen keyboad wouldn't support direct touch of the screen or input from a physical keyboard.

    And in many cases, the actual tasks wont translate between devices. Like the way they slid panes around in the email app, that wouldn't be useful at all from a tiny phone display.

    nothing to worry about. really.
  6. #126  
    Any app that needs a gesture area can just put a black box at the bottom of their app. All legacy apps can just run with a black box at the bottom of the app.

    Also pane dragging and 2 or 3 finger swipes can replace the need forward and back buttons.
    Last edited by megaman821; 02/11/2011 at 06:06 PM.
  7. #127  
    cantaffordit,

    I appreciate your lengthy response. In your use though, did you really see no place for a swipe-up to go to card view or the once rumored idea of the keyboard coming up by slowly swiping up?

    Those seem very useful. So instead of the nimble speed of switching apps by full left-right swipes or going to card view by swiping up (I think the playbook does this!) webOS is getting a hardware button?

    Perhaps this gestureless webOS will just stay with the touchpad...but it seems like HP is making decisions about how webOS will go forward, and Enyo 3.x and lack of gestures seems like that is the future.

    I guess I am not sure webOS as I love it now has a future. Not to mention that the news around here is that the developers are stuck in a catch 22 . The few who stick around will have to learn an entirely new system (Enyo) and no-one knows what's going on with webOS anymore.

    If I get a Veer and then webos 3.x get's pushed onto my phone, now my phone will have to emulate all the apps? I am not really that interested in the Touchpad except that it seems to be an omen of things to come for webOS.
  8. #128  
    Quote Originally Posted by megaman821 View Post
    Any app that needs a gesture area can just put a black box at the button of their app. All legacy apps can just run with a black box at the bottom of the app.

    Also pane dragging and 2 or 3 finger swipes can replace the need forward and back buttons.
    you say 'can'. I'd be happy with onscreen gestures (two finger swipe up to get launcher for example)...but there was no hint of that from HP/Palm as far as I can tell. We have more evidence that iOS will have those onscreen gestures.
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    #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by DirkGently View Post
    I would have also added the two cards interface. Two cards at the same time opened up, this is true multitasking and would be a feature apples ios would copy from webos. This feature alone could be a "killer"-argument for the PalmPad.
    When two windows/cards are open the second gesture bar would gain some special operations for this modus. With it you could lock one of the two cards for example.

    Example: You are watching a Hulu movie and you received a important mail, but down want to stop you movie. Lock the one card. and open up the app-launcher (this will automaticly open in just one half of the screen) choose the mail app (this fills the not locked screenspace, so that mail an hulu are open at the same time) and write you mail while watching you hulu movie. Other example are videoconference while simutanously handling the presentation you are showing.
    Just because the OS can multitask --- doesn't mean that you would get acceptable performance (especially with applications that require real time computing). Grab a 5 year old computer (which has about the same CPU power as the TouchPad) --- start playing a video and then start up a word processor --- what do you get? Your video would stutter in the background.

    The RIM Playbook can do that --- only because QNX is a hard RTOS. RIM knows how much CPU power the Playbook requires to play a HD video --- and they enforced that like they are designing a nuclear power plant. Other background apps may still starve for CPU time on the Playbook --- but not the video player. QNX makes sure that the video player would never stutter in the background.
  10. #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by bradleyj View Post
    cantaffordit,

    I appreciate your lengthy response. In your use though, did you really see no place for a swipe-up to go to card view or the once rumored idea of the keyboard coming up by slowly swiping up?

    Those seem very useful. So instead of the nimble speed of switching apps by full left-right swipes or going to card view by swiping up (I think the playbook does this!) webOS is getting a hardware button?

    Perhaps this gestureless webOS will just stay with the touchpad...but it seems like HP is making decisions about how webOS will go forward, and Enyo 3.x and lack of gestures seems like that is the future.

    I guess I am not sure webOS as I love it now has a future. Not to mention that the news around here is that the developers are stuck in a catch 22 . The few who stick around will have to learn an entirely new system (Enyo) and no-one knows what's going on with webOS anymore.

    If I get a Veer and then webos 3.x get's pushed onto my phone, now my phone will have to emulate all the apps? I am not really that interested in the Touchpad except that it seems to be an omen of things to come for webOS.
    I saw at least 2 methods to get into card view. Keep in mind that they did the demo and we didn't have the opportunity to play with the devices, so I'm working from site memory, not actually trying it.

    I saw cardview from tapping the "tap-to-share" button, I saw an icon in the top bar (near the current device menu/signal indicator) and I think I also saw an in-app button. And tapping directly on the card maximizes it.

    The thing to land on is:

    1. They haven't eliminated gestures, only the gesture bar. You still toss cards and do all the stuff we like. I predict that you will even see that in the HP TouchSmart PC someday. All the on-screen gestures are still there.

    2. Something I haven't seen much talk about is the fact that the top area stayed visible when the card is maximized. That means you are doing lots of stuff directly within the app. For example, he got an email notification, and was able to respond to the email directly from within the app he was showing (I think it was the photo app but it doesn't matter).

    I hope you can find a bunch of video demos on youtube so you can look for that kind of thing. I'm a very rabid fan of gestures and the webos experience and I never saw anything that was a step backward... but I saw new refinement in the UI that was amazing.

    Also, these things will be hidden or used on phones as appropriate. It would never make sense to use the panes/frames in the email app on a phone screen, so it just wont be available. There may be UI elements on the phone that don't make sense on the tablet. Advanced gesture comes to mind for swiping directly between apps, because I think that was done directly on the display...

    No need to worry or assume the worst. I would have been the first to crawl down someone's throat if I saw bad stuff in the UI, because user experience is probably the thing I have always cared about the most with every software company I've ever worked for or with.
  11. #131  
    I like being able to bring up the wave bar, switching apps without going to card view, and having a uniform back location so I don't have to find it on the app. And I seriously hope they don't plan on using like a two or three finger swipe to do a change card gesture because games such as ninja fruit will be making me change cards all the time!
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    #132  
    I've used the iPad since launch and if you claim the webOS UI for tablets is better than iOS, that's not saying much. One physical home button is horrible for a device that is supposed to be rotated in any direction. If this is the best HP's designers could come up with to replace the gesture area then I'll follow Matias Duarte and get my first Android device starting with a Honeycomb tablet.
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    #133  
    how does honeycomb do it?
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    #134  
    Quote Originally Posted by xplode View Post
    how does honeycomb do it?
    No hardware buttons but dedicated software buttons in the bottom left corner for back, home and multitasking. When rotating the device, the buttons follow your orientation so they are always where you expect them to be. On the other hand, I often lose track of the iPad home button.

    I expected a webOS tablet with stacks and a gesture area to be better but now I won't mind settling for Honeycomb :/
  15. #135  
    Quote Originally Posted by Emceesquared View Post
    i think that moving forward, HP decided they're going to do away with the gesture area completely. soon we'll see phones that don't have it either.
    Folks, this is just not true. I wrote a big post on this based on talking to several product managers on Wed. I will find it and post a link here.

    The "gestures" we all love aren't going anywhere. This is a non-issue. Stay tuned.
  16. #136  
    the gestures are the key to the whole experience with webOS why would they delete it lol its only on the tablet that they dont have the gesture bar and thats it !
    Last edited by Shadavis08; 02/11/2011 at 08:36 PM.
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  17. #137  
    not really. The only thing the gesture are does is 'back' and 'forward' and 'cardview'. Other gestures are done on the LCD itself.
  18. #138  
    from another thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post

    1. The notion that they are "going to do away with the gesture area" is baseless and likely to be wrong. In fact, every product manager I spoke with said the opposite - this is a design choice specific to the touchpad, primarily because of the amount of screen available.

    2. There is ZERO difference in functionality in that lack of a gesture area only changes one thing - how you would page forward and back within a scene. That is something that can be done several different ways, including a quick tap on the button that sits where the gesture area in on a phone.

    People worried about this are missing a bunch of things that should remove any "worry":

    1. Gestures can be carried out anywhere on the touchscreen. With so much more screen real estate, they can be allowed in the status area (new features in the "device menu" area at the top), buttons outside of the app, inside the app, etc. I saw several extensive demos and I really drilled down on this so I would understand... and I didn't see a single moment where a gesture bar was needed or where the user experience was changed from what we have today.

    2. They made some amazing additions to the UI that can only work in a larger screen, like being able to touch and slide panes around within the application. Like all the frames in outlook (folders, message list, reading area, etc) but without any need for buttons because the gestures happen right on the app itself. It was really cool.


    BTW, this is why I predict that a slab phone won't happen until the touchpad is shipping - these features will be required for a phone with no keyboard and they will make a slab phone do things that an Evo would never dream of, and would be awkward on a tiny pre/pixi/veer screen. But on a big slab phone or tablet? oh my, it will be amaxing.

    3. As I watched the demos, I realized that a gesture area would really get in the way, just like the touchpad on a notebook sometimes does - and many brands include a switch to turn the touchpad off so you don't brush it with thumbs/palms/sleeves/jewelry when typing. Same could be true here.

    The ability to hold and use the tablet in a limitless variety of angles and positions would have you putting thumbs/fingers/etc on the gesture area and messing up the user experience every time someone picks up your tablet or you hand it to them so they can see something it's doing.

    The net of my post is that it made good sense when I saw it, I pushed back hard to make sure I saw enough scenarios for the ways I use my phone and netbook... and there weren't any moments when I saw a lack of functionality, the need for a separate gesture area, or a bad user experience. To the contrary, they have really been making fantastic additions to the UI to optimize for the tablet.

    I hope that makes everyone feel better. There really isn't anything to be concerned about from the user side. I was expecting to see webOS 2.0 on a big screen, and what they showed was webOS 3.0 with a tone of cool things made possible by the larger screen. I also think the UI they showed us isn't finalized, so there will probably be additional refinements beyond what you can see in the videos posted on youtube.

    I was really skeptical about the touchpad... and I was REALLY impressed.
  19. #139  
    im talking about the gesture bar Tim not the gesture that are done on the screen itself lol
    ĦṔ-Ḷṫ-Ŧḯη
    Here is a direct link to webOS Doc for all carriers
    http://www.webos-internals.org/wiki/...octor_Versions
    P.S. if i have helped you and you are thankful please hit the thanks button to the right---->
  20. #140  
    @cantaffordit
    Actually, that was from this thread 1 page back! LOLOL You need sleep
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