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  1. #141  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    Apple's losing a little market share to upstart Android, not only on the phone front, but in tablet sales as well.
    I think you might want to read this

    Apple is not losing marketshare in pads at all. Those earlier figures were nothing but a shell game con. Those numbers were based on the gtab selling 2M units. It seems that is not even close. The only marketshare Apple is losing to Android tablets is shelf space, not consumers.
  2. #142  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I think you might want to read this

    Apple is not losing marketshare in pads at all. Those earlier figures were nothing but a shell game con. Those numbers were based on the gtab selling 2M units. It seems that is not even close. The only marketshare Apple is losing to Android tablets is shelf space, not consumers.
    This is a sketchy critique. iPads are sold directly to consumers, not carriers. Galaxy Tabs are mostly sold with data plans to carriers. Is there even a wifi only model for consumers to get?

    Marketshare is a sale, period. Carriers are a large part of the mobile market. They resell to consumers.
  3. #143  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Marketshare is a sale, period. Carriers are a large part of the mobile market. They resell to consumers.
    I disagree. Marketshare is consumer sales. That is how everyone understands, and uses the term. No matter how you slice it, the Tab is not cutting into iPad sales as the earlier report suggested.
  4. #144  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I disagree. Marketshare is consumer sales. That is how everyone understands, and uses the term. No matter how you slice it, the Tab is not cutting into iPad sales as the earlier report suggested.
    I greatly disagree, but don't see the point in having this debate in two separate threads. Let's contain our exchanges on this subject to the thread in Cross-Platform and leave the one in the PalmPad forum be, ok?
  5. #145  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I greatly disagree, but don't see the point in having this debate in two separate threads. Let's contain our exchanges on this subject to the thread in Cross-Platform and leave the one in the PalmPad forum be, ok?
    Sure, but you will recall that I was responding to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    More currently, seems that Apple's losing a little market share to upstart Android, not only on the phone front, but in tablet sales as well.
    hparsons assertion was that the iPad was losing marketshare to Android tablets. My correction of what he said was on point, and relevant.

    ...And yes, further discussion belongs in CP
  6. #146  
    Quote Originally Posted by CGK View Post
    ... that's why I don't understand the fixation some people have here with Apple, their model is different from everyone in the market...
    I think typically, the discussion about Palm and WebOS on here gets turned into Apple/Android discussions by non Palm/WebOS users.

    In other words, it's a Palm/WebOS site. Maybe you should be asking about the "fixation" from the non Palm/WebOS users.
  7. #147  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think typically, the discussion about Palm and WebOS on here gets turned into Apple/Android discussions by non Palm/WebOS users.
    Please tell that to Leo and HP. They are the ones who want to be compared to Apple.
  8. #148  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    I think you might want to read this

    Apple is not losing marketshare in pads at all. Those earlier figures were nothing but a shell game con. Those numbers were based on the gtab selling 2M units. It seems that is not even close. The only marketshare Apple is losing to Android tablets is shelf space, not consumers.
    Sorry, but you've not convinced me.

    The android tablet is new, the iPad is not. Every android tablet sold to a consumer is lost market space for Apple.

    I saw the same sort of "It's all a lie" when android phones started hitting iPhone's share. It's going to happe. It's going to happen with WebOS tablets too. The question isn't "if", but "how much".
  9. #149  
    Quote Originally Posted by dandbj13 View Post
    Please tell that to Leo and HP. They are the ones who want to be compared to Apple.
    Are they on here?? I was responding to someone else's post. Maybe I misunderstood CGK's comment.
  10. #150  
    Apple won't fight a margin battle. They will try to innovate their way to margins. They do that with everything. Once you have someone bought into your ecosystem, you can overcharge them for the little things (e.g. mice, keyboard, content).

    HP will not win the high end, but compete in the lower end. Problem is, Google is trying to own the low end and the middle. Where will WebOS fit? Corporate?
  11. #151  
    Of course Apple is losing market share because the can no longer be 100%.

    But this thread is about the idea that HP should (or should not) sell webOS tablets at a loss.
  12. #152  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    ...
    HP will not win the high end, but compete in the lower end. Problem is, Google is trying to own the low end and the middle. Where will WebOS fit? Corporate?
    I'm not sure where this misconception of HP as a "low end" mfg comes from. Maybe it's the number of people on here that are simply consumers. HP sells, and successfully I might add, a lot of high end devices.
  13. #153  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I'm not sure where this misconception of HP as a "low end" mfg comes from. Maybe it's the number of people on here that are simply consumers. HP sells, and successfully I might add, a lot of high end devices.
    They absolutely do, but not to consumers - unless you mean calculators or something. HP has a brand and history of quality in the research and corporate markets. At Best Buy, not so much.
  14. #154  
    Quote Originally Posted by realistdreamer View Post
    They absolutely do, but not to consumers - unless you mean calculators or something. HP has a brand and history of quality in the research and corporate markets. At Best Buy, not so much.
    Care to quote a source? If you counted all the HP products in my house and around the houses of my friends and family..... you'd realize that HP is very successful selling through retail channels.
  15. #155  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Care to quote a source? If you counted all the HP products in my house and around the houses of my friends and family..... you'd realize that HP is very successful selling through retail channels.
    I think "high-end" vs "low-end" was the point of contention, not the number of offerings.
  16. #156  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I don't think they're going to check in with you on that one, and I understand the concern from AppleFanWorld. Apple didn't fare so well when went head to head with HP over laser printers, they've failed to sell the quantity of computers that HP does, so I understand the concern over this entry into the field.

    But, back to the topic. Since HP is definitely entering the market, do you think a loss leader would help, or hurt their efforts?
    And here we go AGAIN with that typical, tired response. Apple doesn't sell the same cheap crap that HP does. So, it's obvious that HP will sell more CHEAP $300 laptops when Apple's cheapest laptop is over 3 times more expensive. But, I guess you and so many others don't get that, which is why it keeps getting repeated over and over again. Oh, and Apple with their less products being sold easily outpaces HP where it matters MOST, the profits that Apple makes for each dollar of revenue they bring in. Look it up.

    I guess BMW has failed miserably against GM all these years since GM sells way more autos than BMW. But, which company needed the government to bail them out? Seems all those cheap Chevrolets GM was selling wasn't giving them the profit they needed to run their business.

    Now, on to HP. I think everyone knows that HP will not be selling the tablet at a loss to consumers. So, let's move on from that to the more important question. How is HP, that has conditioned consumers that they can get a decent laptop for under $400, going to convince consumers that a tablet device, with LESS functionality than a laptop, is worth paying more for than the laptop?
  17. #157  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    And here we go AGAIN with that typical, tired response. Apple doesn't sell the same cheap crap that HP does. So, it's obvious that HP will sell more CHEAP $300 laptops when Apple's cheapest laptop is over 3 times more expensive. But, I guess you and so many others don't get that, which is why it keeps getting repeated over and over again. Oh, and Apple with their less products being sold easily outpaces HP where it matters MOST, the profits that Apple makes for each dollar of revenue they bring in. Look it up.

    I guess BMW has failed miserably against GM all these years since GM sells way more autos than BMW. But, which company needed the government to bail them out? Seems all those cheap Chevrolets GM was selling wasn't giving them the profit they needed to run their business.

    Now, on to HP. I think everyone knows that HP will not be selling the tablet at a loss to consumers. So, let's move on from that to the more important question. How is HP, that has conditioned consumers that they can get a decent laptop for under $400, going to convince consumers that a tablet device, with LESS functionality than a laptop, is worth paying more for than the laptop?
    I think I may have touched a nerve. Yep, HP sells some low end items. They also sell high end items. What's your point? That they can't do both? Wrong, they've been doing it for decades.
  18. #158  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think I may have touched a nerve. Yep, HP sells some low end items. They also sell high end items. What's your point? That they can't do both? Wrong, they've been doing it for decades.
    Not at all. I just think it's silly to say that a company failed at something compared to another company BASED strictly on numbers while IGNORING price and other factors.

    You KNOW that, but, yet, you continue to do it.

    Now, if you can give numbers on how HP's Envy line of laptop sales compare to Apple's MacBook Pro sales then you can say whichever company failed against the other based on sales of those comparable products.
  19. #159  
    Quote Originally Posted by hparsons View Post
    I think "high-end" vs "low-end" was the point of contention, not the number of offerings.
    Thank you.

    I took a quick gander at HP's site and people can see for themselves. Check out the home section and pick out one category where HP is dominant or even considered high-end (in the mind of the consumer).

    Possibly, we're talking iPaq smartphones?

    Take a look at the Apple and HP home pages right now. Which one shows a Macbook Air with no price and focuses on its innovation and which site says "stylish laptop starting at $579." Which site says 50% off printers? Which site save "Do more, Save more."

    Nothing wrong with this marketing, but it is not based on leading in innovation. Frankly, if they could make the marketing a bit "sexier" the business proposition of Do more, Save more is not bad at all. It also fits in with what I expect from their WebOS offerings. A desktop, laptop, printer focused ecosystem that adds always-on, always in touch web-based, 4G connectivity. We'll see.
  20. #160  
    Quote Originally Posted by SoFly View Post
    Not at all. I just think it's silly to say that a company failed at something compared to another company BASED strictly on numbers while IGNORING price and other factors.

    You KNOW that, but, yet, you continue to do it.

    Now, if you can give numbers on how HP's Envy line of laptop sales compare to Apple's MacBook Pro sales then you can say whichever company failed against the other based on sales of those comparable products.
    I don't think I mentioned numbers in my comparison. Apple's laser printers were more expensive (slightly) than comparable HPs, but one can't say that HP was undercutting Apple, since they were selling theirs first. Apple just tried to go head to head, and failed. I don't base that on numbers, but on the simple fact that one company is selling laser printers, and the other is not.

    Sorry, but having the highest caliber of something (especially when that designation is very much subjective) doesn't mean something succeeded in the long run.

    I'm not familiar with the Envy line of laptops, so I don't know if it's a comparable product to the Apple MacBook Pro. Apple very well may be been more successful than the Envy, I don't speak to it because I don't know anything about it.
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