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  1. Cringer's Avatar
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    #261  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    I know people here like to get hung up on technicalities, but for the sake of being rational adults, can we agree that by "ZERO new products" he meant devices that were not a Pre or Pixi refresh on a different network?

    His larger point about the lack of tangible progress is still quite valid.
    No. Of course feel free to be a "rational adult" and assign whatever meaning you want to the word "no" as well. As for the lack of progress, information found inside webOS itself on device names, the announcement of a new development framework, webOS 2.x, an upgraded device in the Pre 2, and HP Palm itself saying products are in development all seems like it's "tangible" to me. Now, if you and others say you do not like the course they have chosen, don't think it's the best strategy, then fine. To deny anything is being done and simply say "webOS development is dead" is a ridiculous statement which is untrue. I will repeat, statement's like that are simply pathetic and basically make everything else that person says obsolete to me. Feel free to whine about me picking at technicalities though.
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  2. #262  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringer View Post
    No. Of course feel free to be a "rational adult" and assign whatever meaning you want to the word "no" as well. As for the lack of progress, information found inside webOS itself on device names, the announcement of a new development framework, webOS 2.x, an upgraded device in the Pre 2, and HP Palm itself saying products are in development all seems like it's "tangible" to me. Now, if you and others say you do not like the course they have chosen, don't think it's the best strategy, then fine. To deny anything is being done and simply say "webOS development is dead" is a ridiculous statement which is untrue. I will repeat, statement's like that are simply pathetic and basically make everything else that person says obsolete to me. Feel free to whine about me picking at technicalities though.
    Feel free to read what he actually said. I believe the sentence read "WebOS development appears to be dead", not "WebOS development is dead." Since you are a stickler for being literal, you may want to practice what you preach and not infer.

    Also, in the sentence before he says "ZERO products", he explicitly acknowledges the Palm Pre 2 - the only WebOS 2.0 device he could possibly be referring to - thus it's clear that by "new", he does not literally mean they have released nothing whatsoever, but rather a new product that is not a refresh of the Pre and Pixi.

    Also, you're misusing the word "obsolete" in the above post. This is all pretty basic stuff, so read up.

    Finally, if you believe that the half-hearted release of the months late WebOS 2.0 and Pre 2 along with vague announcements of "devices" coming "next year" represent progress, then you appear to be in the extreme minority. The platform is losing users, developers, and carrier interest, which is a pretty deadly combo. HP can certainly change that, but as Kupe so correctly noted, we are talking about what is, not what might be.
  3. Cringer's Avatar
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    #263  
    Quote Originally Posted by mikah912 View Post
    Feel free to read what he actually said. I believe the sentence read "WebOS development appears to be dead", not "WebOS development is dead." Since you are a stickler for being literal, you may want to practice what you preach and not infer.

    Also, in the sentence before he says "ZERO products", he explicitly acknowledges the Palm Pre 2 - the only WebOS 2.0 device he could possibly be referring to - thus it's clear that by "new", he does not literally mean they have released nothing whatsoever, but rather a new product that is not a refresh of the Pre and Pixi.

    Also, you're misusing the word "obsolete" in the above post. This is all pretty basic stuff, so read up.

    Finally, if you believe that the half-hearted release of the months late WebOS 2.0 and Pre 2 along with vague announcements of "devices" coming "next year" represent progress, then you appear to be in the extreme minority. The platform is losing users, developers, and carrier interest, which is a pretty deadly combo. HP can certainly change that, but as Kupe so correctly noted, we are talking about what is, not what might be.
    Appears/is, either way I view it as an incorrect statement and rather asinine for the reasons I stated. There is plenty of evidence to show that HP Palm is moving forward. Again, as I said before, I have no problem with someone saying they disagree with the way HP Palm has progressed, but to deny progression out right is simply incorrect. They are moving forward. Do you or others think it is a ****-poor strategy? Yes, and fine that is your opinion. The way certain people decide to convey that opinion I take exception to though.
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  4. #264  
    Did everyone see this? Answers are emerging:

    http://forums.precentral.net/future-...noucement.html
  5. #265  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cringer View Post
    Appears/is, either way I view it as an incorrect statement and rather asinine for the reasons I stated. There is plenty of evidence to show that HP Palm is moving forward. Again, as I said before, I have no problem with someone saying they disagree with the way HP Palm has progressed, but to deny progression out right is simply incorrect. They are moving forward. Do you or others think it is a ****-poor strategy? Yes, and fine that is your opinion. The way certain people decide to convey that opinion I take exception to though.
    By development, he means apps, not internal development of SDKs or whatnot.

    But I guess we'll see what they have cooked up in 35 days. Hope it's good.
  6. #266  
    Here's what I meant. Zero new devices in the past 9 months (Pre 2 didn't launch), and ONE OS update (1.4.5) over the previous 9 months.

    The Pre Plus and Pixi Plus launched more than 9 months ago. The Pre 2 did not launch, though HP did sort of attempt to launch it. There isn't a single U.S. carrier you can buy the phone from, and not a single U.S. carrier that will give you an activation discount if you purchase the Pre 2 online. That's not a launch. That's a specialty developer phone you can purchase from the manufacturer.

    In regard to webOS development being dead I mean BOTH apps and operating system. 5,000 applications in 1.5 years. That's dead in the world of smartphone and smart mobile devices. The OS is still missing basic functionality like voice command/dialing, people. It's missing basic functionality like text time stamps (yes, there is a home brew app for that, but it should be a default function) I'm not here to insult the user base. I'm one of the users for crying out loud. Thank goodness for the home brew crowd, btw. My Pre (#5, which hasn't ever worked correctly from minute 1) would be nearly unusable with it's stock configuration and no Govnah/Uberkernal.

    There is not evidence HP is moving forward. There are rumors that HP is moving forward. Rumors of new devices and OS updates coming to the webOS user base. Where are the devices that were rumored last year (4G Pre?) Where is the Verizon launch Pre 2 or a new device that is competitive. Rumors, rumors, rumors, and almost always, the most significant and official rumors lead to failures and delays. Hell, I remember it took, what, 7 months to get video recording? Yeah, I tried Precorder, but wasn't able to get it to work properly.

    These are observations from owning a Palm Pre since July, 2009. These are observations from MONTHS of rumor mill watching, and consistently being disappointed. These are observations from being embarrassed for defending HP/Palm and my choice to use a Palm device for years to my friends who work for Google and in other tech arenas. Eventually, "coming soon" or "in coming months" translates to "maybe we'll get around to it sometime, I guess." I remember the last EXCITING webOS event... the Pre and Pixi Plus, LOL. HP/Palm has lost a tremendous amount of respect and momentum over the past year. A tremendous amount of respect and momentum. webOS users are tremendously loyal, myself included. I've been upgrade eligible since July, 2010 and here I am... still with the original Pre. No auto focus. Meager application offerings. Poor stock performance. Crappy battery life. Tiny screen. Poor resolution. No front facing camera. No voice commands. Weak multimedia file support. Can't make or take calls without using the speaker or bluetooth (yes, my Pre #5 has been busted since the first second I got it, in the exact same way Pre #4 was)

    The history at HP/Palm has been one of let down after let down after let down for years now. For everything that's been done right in with webOS so far, there have been an equal or greater number of failures. THOSE ARE THE FACTS. Not rumors that Palm has build a device that can build you and island and then transform into a jet and fly you there which will be available in coming months.
  7. #267  
    Feb 9th will give us many answers, and many new questions.
  8. cgk
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    #268  
    Quote Originally Posted by Cantaffordit View Post
    Feb 9th will give us many answers, and many new questions.
    Maybe something will be "coming soon in future months!"
  9. #269  
    I hope it gives the answers I want to hear like that a new webOS phone which offers the features I want will be available on Sprint in 1Q, and that webOS 2.0 will be rolled out to existing Pre owners immediately, and that all the contact deletion and syncing bugs have been worked out, and that apps are working on 2.0 properly, and that voice functionality and messaging options will be available shortly.
  10. #270  
    If we believe the Fox News leak of 3 PalmPads and there are 4 devices, then perhaps the 4th device is that very tiny phone talked about here in an earlier rumor. The Palmpads are used as terminals to access the content in the cloud, which is hosted on HP infrastructure. HP goes after the many many SMB companies and offers them an affordable price for their storage so those companies no longer have to spend for infrastructure, they buy palmpads and phones and are set to go. The tiny phone is used as some sort of remote control or maybe reverts back to mostly a simple texting, calling, hear music device etc (to be honest the browser on the palmpre right now is so small anyway that I can't do any serious work on it).

    The larger Palm phone perhaps comes out later in the spring or early summer on the Sprint 4G network.
    This would explain all the HP comments that Pads were key and phones taking a more backseat. If true also, might have given some incentive for the Palm talent last summer who were phone enthusiasts to leave for other pastures.

    Just speculation, putting together the pieces on the precentral site.
  11. #271  
    LOL, I hope not. It would mark another huge marketing failure for HP/Palm.
  12. #272  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    LOL, I hope not. It would mark another huge marketing failure for HP/Palm.

    If you are referring to palm introducing, at first anyway, only a small lower-spec'd non-super phone you might not be correct. As pointed out in the "fragmentation" threads there are still a large number of people out there that don't have smartphones. Fact is, the people who really want the higher-spec'd superphones probably already have one and many, many of them are either contractually, financially or emotionally locked-in to their current phone/os. HP could easily see that the market strategy they have the best chance of making an immediate impact with is not to compete against the Evos and the Thunderbolts or whatever of the world just yet, but to go after the "low hanging fruit" of the feature phone people that are looking to step up.

    Microsoft had the same general idea with the Kin, problem was the phone both stunk and was too expensive for what it did.

    The huge success of the free (this past xmas anyway) Optimus LG phone on Sprint also showed, I think, where the growth market is - people with feature phones looking for something more -- at a more reasonable price than the superphones,

    As noted above, the ads for actors for the commercials and other statements seem to indicate this might be the market HP is concentrating on right now. Add to that the passion for Tablets and how good webOS could be on a Tablet and doing all the cloud stuff that the others can't, might mean that the focus will be on those devices and not superphone just yet.

    That does not mean HP won't come out with something amazing in the phone area eventually. Even if the above stratagy works, you need an upgrade path within webOS so that the new users have something to grow into.

    I could see, then, a strategy where what is announced in Feb is that what is about to be available (hopefully not "in the coming months") is a more mid-ranged phone that will be small, relatively inexpensive but "hip" and "cool" and works great with the tablets to do neat cloudy-things. Then, later, perhaps there would be a more powerful phone or two.

    That's not great news for the people on here that want something to compete and beat the next super-droid, but it could be what HP sees as the best way to get back into the market.
    Last edited by midmofan; 01/06/2011 at 01:18 PM.
  13. #273  
    Either you guys don't get it at all or I don't get it at all. I don't think there is a middle ground, unfortunately. webOS doesn't have the apps or developer interest, and I strongly believe people buying tablets want to stick with their familiar smart phone operating system.

    iPhone users will buy iPads
    Android users will buy Android Tablets
    webOS users will buy webOS Tablets... but there are few of us left, and I believe a drop of at least 30% of webOS phone users by mid year if there isn't anything competitive in the phone market from HP before then. No current users = no developers = no apps = no new users.

    Blackberry MIGHT be a user base that will switch because I believe a large number of Blackberry phones are purchased by businesses, and their owners aren't particularly impressed with the phones.

    If HP doesn't have a competitive phone VERY soon, that Blackberry crowd is the only hope for webOS's success.
  14. #274  
    Quote Originally Posted by EvilKell View Post
    Either you guys don't get it at all or I don't get it at all. I don't think there is a middle ground, unfortunately. webOS doesn't have the apps or developer interest, and I strongly believe people buying tablets want to stick with their familiar smart phone operating system.

    iPhone users will buy iPads
    Android users will buy Android Tablets
    webOS users will buy webOS Tablets... but there are few of us left, and I believe a drop of at least 30% of webOS phone users by mid year if there isn't anything competitive in the phone market from HP before then. No current users = no developers = no apps = no new users.

    Blackberry MIGHT be a user base that will switch because I believe a large number of Blackberry phones are purchased by businesses, and their owners aren't particularly impressed with the phones.

    If HP doesn't have a competitive phone VERY soon, that Blackberry crowd is the only hope for webOS's success.
    The rate of users wanting to change from Android is still notable higher than Apple's, and even Apple still has a good chunk of users looking for something different. What you continue to miss is, as I have said before, that customers are fickle. If they seem something better that wows them and makes them want a product, they will try to get that product if they can afford it. HP needs to make people want their products. That's it.

    Ford is a classic example of a company that many people started shying away from until the company started making cars that customers really wanted. Now they are surging and highly profitable. Motorola went down the toilet once the Razor lost its appeal. It took them a couple years and the Droid to really get their mojo back. But they got it back. Why? Again, because customers are fickle.
  15. #275  
    I love how everyone thinks they are in the heads of HP. Who knows what they will do? It would be failure "to me" to not have a better phone than the Pre+/- on the market very soon because I want to use WebOS on better hardware. HP will do what their PMO determines has the best ROI for this time. and they will deliver it when it finally works, or will abandon it if at some point they determine that it isn't fiscally possible to deliver without significant loss.
    If that means that HP doesn't release a better phone for WebOS in the next couple of months AND if Verizon doesn't release on their network, I am out. I'm not saying this off the cuff. I really am sick of waiting. The Pre+ is good, but still has too many flaws. WebOS 1.4.5 is good, but has too few big apps.
    5000 apps is pretty good for a startup. But it does not match what android had in the same timeframe. But I can live with that if I get new hardware to replace the one pre+ that seems to be messing up a little, and webos 2 on my other pre+
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  16. #276  
    Seems like this leak kind of just wasn't true at this point. Good ole Fox...
  17. jmleese's Avatar
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    #277  
    I think if they bring out a few flavors of the tablet & a 2nd level updated phone that is better internals with a larger screen / build quality & available within a month it will be fine, so long as they have plans for a new super phone to be released well in advance of the next gen iphone. Ideally a 7 inch tablet will be ready for purchase very soon, as its really about as big as you can go & hold with 1 hand or type comfortably onscreen. I tried on the ipad & it was very tough, as I had to stretch to hit all the keys- not to mention how worried I'd be doing that & get bumped & watch such an expensive item's glass screen drop & shatter. Mainly though was the size & weight were too much to effectively type on while on the go like mass transit or anything short of sitting down to type on it while it was in my lap.
  18. #278  
    Thing is, its Coming!~

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