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  1.    #1  
    I still have Pre3, Veer, & Touchpad... have moved on to Passport for the PKB... now also dead... is it me??
  2. #2  
    Yes it is you.

    As long as you choose to think for yourself, make choices that are not mainstream, and question the routines and trends of the gen-pop, circumstances like these are likely to recur.

    I hate it too
    Sporting my 13th Pre device, a NOS unlocked ROW Pre3!
  3. #3  
    I know this will go offtopic in a way but... why, blackberry has cancelled lines / stopped offering updates for those ?
  4. #4  
    What do you mean your passport is dead?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
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    For the latest webOS news check out pivotCE
  5. #5  
    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Morford View Post
    What do you mean your passport is dead?

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
    Blackberry 10 is now a dead-end with the adoption of Android.
    At least Blackberry is putting some of BB10's features on Android.

    OP should come get a Windows Phone too!
    m505 > Z|71 > T|C > T|T3 > LifeDrive > iPod touch 4 >
    Pre 2 > Treo Pro > Aria > Treo 650 > Lumia 920 > BB Z10 > BB Q10
    Lumia 830 > 635 > iPhone 5s > Galaxy Alpha > Lumia 640 >
    iPhone 5c > Nexus 5 > Nexus 5X > Blackberry Priv
    My Palm OS Archive
  6. GoJoe2's Avatar
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    #6  
    Passport and BBOS10 aren't dead they are just a bit zombie like (like webOS in 2011). I bought a Passport in October.

    And the Plattform is good. It even has some nice things like per contact and profile notifications without apps and patches. Something you needed Modeswitcher in webOS to get going. Other things are lacking which I enjoyed about webOS (better phone app, more patches). But all in all quite enjoyable.

    And yes the platform will be phased out eventually in three to four years. But until then everything is fine.

    And yes as long as you aren't satisfied with mainstream solutions this phenomenon will always haunt you. It's just the way it is.

    I started to embrace it rather than dispice it.
  7. ggendel's Avatar
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    #7  
    They have a term for us: "Harbinger of Failure"

    Are you a “harbinger of failure”? | MIT News
    Palm III->Palm IV->Palm V->M130->Tungsten->Treo 270->Treo 600->Treo 700->Palm Pre Plus->FrankenPre 2->Pre 3 & TouchPad
    xandros9 and dkirker like this.
  8. #8  
    If anyone needs a homebrew recipe for Diet Crystal Pepsi, hit me up in the PMs!

    EDIT: Oh, no, wait, sorry! I meant Diet Crystal Meth!

    No failed products for me!
    Last edited by Preemptive; 02/08/2016 at 03:44 PM.
    BeingBoston121 likes this.
  9. #9  
    I switched to a BB Q10 only because Sprint dropped Telenav and there went my navigation app. I could never get Navit to work on my Pre-. I like the Q10 o.k. After getting a suprise automatic BB10 upgrade in December 2015, I wondered was Sprint bringing BB back into their lineup, especially because the Priv is Android (which I'm not interested in because it's Android). I would get a BB Classic to replace the Q10 if Sprint carried it.
  10. GoJoe2's Avatar
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    #10  
    @preemptive
    I read the article when it was published. Thought through that would mean as soon as one of us buys a phone the manufacturer should stop producing it. But when we would by another phone which would again have to be taken out of production. At the end there would be no phone at all left...
  11. #11  
    Quote Originally Posted by GoJoe2 View Post
    Passport and BBOS10 aren't dead they are just a bit zombie like (like webOS in 2011). I bought a Passport in October.

    And the Plattform is good. It even has some nice things like per contact and profile notifications without apps and patches. Something you needed Modeswitcher in webOS to get going. Other things are lacking which I enjoyed about webOS (better phone app, more patches). But all in all quite enjoyable.

    And yes the platform will be phased out eventually in three to four years. But until then everything is fine.

    And yes as long as you aren't satisfied with mainstream solutions this phenomenon will always haunt you. It's just the way it is.

    I started to embrace it rather than dispice it.
    In March I bought a BB Z10. It's not a Veer but its better than the Galaxy and Droid I ditched.
    I still have a TP but installed Android Lollipop on it, not too bad for a tablet.
    I still have a couple of Veers I use for mp3 and Smart Runner apps but my Z10 is my go to daily driver.
    BB 10 isn't WebOS but its the closest thing out there to it. Like WebOS, I will keep using it until they shut the servers down like HP did in March.
  12. #12  
    You guys probably saw my post on the tread over on crackberry about it:
    For someone that went from Symbian to webOS to BB10, this transition is getting tired. I love an alternate OS but once the OEM stops ACTIVELY supporting the OS things quickly become broke. You can be as firm in your resolve to continue using X device as long as you like but things will break and things will become unusable. Many of use former webOS users are familiar with it.
    Expected Timeline
    Last Device
    Last Update (Not including security).....~Around 6 months of Last Device
    API Changes......................................~Arou nd a year of Last Update
    Server/app store Shutdown.................~Around 3 years after Last Update


    That last device and update may have already happened, that means we may have till 2017 till APIs start to become outdated and 2019 till a possible server shutdown. All while the web browser becomes outdated and the already small app support quickly dries up.

    Usually when I see a company drop support I see no reason to support them by using their device and I jump ship. Wish me luck finding an alternative OS
    I don't see anymore software updates for BB10 coming out other then Security patches (they won't walk away from corporate and gov adopters very quick)

    FireFox OS is done as well.
    Our only chooses are Window 10 mobile, Jolla and Ubuntu. All three are just as questionable to jump to. Ubuntu and Jolla will probably have a better chance of popular apps being kept updates by the communities.

    I'm thinking of going with a Nokia N9 with meego, its a step down in what I have now but I think the community are still pretty active on it. I only worry about my web browsing experience.
    Smartphones: Nokia 5230 > Palm Pre 2 > Nokia 701 (returned) > HP Pre 3 > BB Z10 (save me from it) + HP Touchpad
    Cars: 1993 Subaru Impreza AWD > 2007 Saab 9-3 2.0T


    LinkedIn: Matthew Mers
    Twitter: MatthewMers
  13. #13  
    The problem is, Android is much the same way, too. And even iOS. After a year or two your device doesn't receive updates anymore. Then the latest version of the apps stop working. The sometimes the apps just cease to function outright.

    Unless you update every year.

    (Tehn devices get huge, and they drop the physical keyboard...)
    Did you know:

    webOS ran on a Treo 800 during initial development.
  14. GoJoe2's Avatar
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    #14  
    @mattmers
    Oh, so true!!! But while I had hoped like two to three years ago (around 2013/2014) that there will be lots of good alternatives - by now, there aren't any serious choices left. As you said youself Firefox is done. Ubuntu is not realy getting of the ground and Jolla, well they have some really big trouble, so I would not place my bets on them.

    So there is, indeed, only Wndows Phone left and I have a Dell Venue Pro with Windows Phone 7.5 and slide out QWERTY keyboard. It is nice. But if it would be a decent replacement for BBOS10 let alone webOS, I can't really imagine. So we are down to sticking to webOS and BBOS10 as long as it works. And then there is no way around Android or iOS. Hopefully somebody comes up with some good tweaks to Android by that time.
  15. #15  
    Quote Originally Posted by dkirker View Post
    The problem is, Android is much the same way, too. And even iOS. After a year or two your device doesn't receive updates anymore. Then the latest version of the apps stop working. The sometimes the apps just cease to function outright.

    Unless you update every year.
    This comment is right on the money. Anyone want to buy an iphone 3?

    FFOS may be targeting TVs, but it is on... Panasonics, right? That makes it a commercial operation that is still being developed. It is fully open-sourced and obviously, the mobile version has only now been halted - developers that want mobile FFOS can continue to develop it. Also, LuneOS uses parts from most of the other OSS projects: Ubuntu, SailfishOS and FFOS. LG aren't Open-sourcing their work, but the original OwOS and those other projects mean that though desirable, it's not a major problem. These projects aren't dead, they are just not going mainstream anytime soon.

    What about hardware? Nexus phones are still coming out and I guess the alternative versions of Android for other handsets are still going strong. If the Nexus line is closed down, there are still some open platforms and even Open-source hardware is appearing. It's not the cutting edge, but we are definitely reaching a point where small production runs or even 'build-your-own options are becoming feasible and even affordable. You lose some power/value in exchange for the openess and the fact that it's a niche product.

    Aside from the modular projects, the most interesting I think is the Fairphone - it's an average Android handset, but the figures on their site show it was put together for a relatively small amount of money. The selling point was the ethics and the repair-ability. Most importantly, it was successful enough that they are now making the Fairphone 2. They are also porting SailfishOS to it. If it can run Android and Sailfish, it can run Ubuntu, FFOS and LuneOS...

    You can have loads of apps and FB, Whatsapp or whatever at the cost of being locked into an eco-system, tracked for advertising or whatever or you can have open-source, community supported, hackable stuff that will never get all of the popular apps. Every choice has it's price.
  16. #16  
    Actually iOS 9 is supported on the Iphone 4s which came out in 2011. Android Marshmallow is supported on the Nexus 5 which came out in 2013. The Note 4 (2014) Sony Z4 (2014) and several others going to get Marshmallow. The idea of neither not supporting legacy devices is wrong. You should be able to expect updates for 2 years. I am pretty sure that you can expect most popular social media apps on Ubuntu, Sailfish and other open source style OSs since they are more reliant on community development.
    Smartphones: Nokia 5230 > Palm Pre 2 > Nokia 701 (returned) > HP Pre 3 > BB Z10 (save me from it) + HP Touchpad
    Cars: 1993 Subaru Impreza AWD > 2007 Saab 9-3 2.0T


    LinkedIn: Matthew Mers
    Twitter: MatthewMers
    Jozz likes this.
  17. GoJoe2's Avatar
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    #17  
    About that I am not all too sure. I think the iPhone 4s is already an exception. As you said yourself the the newest Android Version are running with manufacturers OTA updates (if you look at Sony or samsung) on two to three year old devices only. So no one should expect much more. But I think this discussion is also a bit misleading. My first PalmOS was my workhorse for several years without any update at all and everything went fine. Even if Palm would have collapsed seconds after I bought the phone that would not have changes a thing.

    So why is it that we are so concerned and even pissed about the death of all these great OSs? Well, you basically said it already. The working of a phone is by now so dependent on an up to date OS and engine in general that you can't work on long time as soon as they announce halt of development and that is because we are today so heavily reliant on all the cloud services and even more so on up to date APIs. 15 years ago relevant functions like exchange or some other protocols were update in cycles of years not months. (just look at Microsoft Exchange integration in webOS. It is the only service which still works out of the box years after servers and everything has been shut down for good). But today Apis are update monthly sometimes weekly. So unless somebody updates them all the time they are broken very quickly.

    So this phenomenon is maybe not so much the fault of dying ecosystems (though that is true as well) but more pertaining to the world of smartphone how it is today. And this was a slow but steady process which came on use with the creation of cloud service reliant operating systems. And we can't change much about it.

    Funny thing about that is, is that one could have thought it is possible to buy a somewhat modern smartphone and live with it as long as it can handle mobile data connection and hardware standards like WiFi. But much to the opposite. You have to buy at least every 4 years a new phone. At least if you rely on all the services which we have started to use all the time (for communication, social media, music, data organisation or whatever)
    kayphoonstar likes this.
  18. #18  
    Well, the issue is that API or libraries in general can be made in 2 ways

    1)One way is to preserve compatibility with the older versions, thus allowing a continuity of service while offering new functionalities (to newer programs).

    2)Another way is to ignore compatibility. And leads to the issues above mentioned.

    Just taking something well known as a comparison point, 2) is what is common in Linux and open source. I may be not popular writing this, but all the .so.1 2 3 4 n required to get things to maybe still work is a really bad design.
    As is a really bad design enyo 2.7 that instead of offering legacy support, it ignores it.

    Microsoft is not a flawless company, but their approach to allowing compatibility for very long update/upgrade cycles is way better and fits more what I consider good planning of sw development.

    Now, poor phone companies have to get their money, so they need to sell as quickly as possible, ergo they are all happy if the client is gently pushed towards buying a new toy asap. They surely like/endorse method 2) as a safety vs diehard like us
    Shuswap likes this.
  19. #19  
    On the other hand, note how Google felt the need to push other companies to using SHA256 (the cause of our current certificate issues). SHA1 was clearly about to become insecure, if it wasn't already.

    Note the slow take up of IPv6...

    The lack of support for OSSL that became apparent when the Heartbleed bug was revealed: Basically 2 guys working for nothing were responsible for security on huge chunks of the internet.

    The worrying lack of security on IoT products...

    Poor security isn't obvious until it goes wrong. Updates will always be needed as technology evolves.

    A lot of companies are piggy-backing cheap products on tech developed for free by others and not contributing either money or code back or not even respecting the licenses. There may be a bit a bit of a shake out if there start to be massive security breaches and either consumer organisations or reviewers start testing for security as well as usability or if there are government standards enforced for this stuff. Ultimately, it may be easier to pay a commercial license fee to ensure a project is properly staffed and tested than risking your connected product and therefore business.
  20. #20  
    I was looking for an existing discussion to tack this thought to... Here seemed appropriate.

    This past week i had some brief speculation about what could possibly replace my Pre2. I looked up the BB Priv...

    Well it seems Sprint pulled out, and so my carrier will be the only one not getting a version of the Priv. The one Android phone i would have considered. Denied.

    I guess I'll be using this phone until technology progression forces it's obsolescence. *Sigh*
    Sporting my 13th Pre device, a NOS unlocked ROW Pre3!
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