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  1. gregp's Avatar
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    #181  
    OK just come off a UK chat session. Started up with this:


    Hi, I have a HP Pre 3 and have a very serious problem. About four weeks ago I and about 20 other people (reported so far on forums) have suddenly run into problems with our phones crashing many times a day. I have no Preware / Homebrew patches installed and have run the webOS doctor and the problem still happens. The problem only occurs when connected to the network, only on particular carriers, and when network type is set to 3G and data is enabled.

    I don't have my phone with me so can't give you the serial number. However it's a EU Pre 3 as opposed to the AT&T one.

    One of my colleagues has access to Qualcomm debugging tools and has found the problem is caused by the Modem Baseband crashing when UMTS is on.

    It appears we need an update to the modem firmware to fix this problem, as until this problem is resolved my only solution is to use 2G or disable data. As I said it is a very serious problem and places every Pre 3 at the mercy of changes to the Radio Resource Control (RRC) settings, which is presumably why this problem has only happened recently.

    I have a HP Veer on the same carrier and thus far I haven't had any problems so it seems specific to the Pre 3's radio firmware.

    How do we go about getting this fixed?


    Their response:

    8:34 PM Ben: Ok. Thank you very much for your time. I was just checking with my mentor, what we can do from here is to escalate the case and ask our level 3 to investigate this. As soon as we have any update for this we will contact you back.


    Then there was a bit of back and forthing trying to get the Level 3's contact details (which he wouldn't give), making sure they knew I wasn't just going to quietly let it fall into the too hard basket and lots of people having the problem and where to from here, but the bottom line is they're supposed to be getting back to me within a week or so, if I don't hear anything I'll get back to them and rattle the cage a bit.


    Here's hoping...
  2. #182  
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    Thanks, I'll check that out. I'm having it on both 2.2.3 and 2.2.4 for the Veer with 3500 modem firmware. I don't recall having it with 2.1.2 though.
    FWIW I have both a veer and pre3, on 2.2.4 firmware. They reboot under different circumstances. Veer occurs when on a call the pre3 occurs when not on a call, in fact if you stream radio on the pre3 it doesn't reboot.
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

  3. #183  
    Good work gregp, hopefully that leads to something.
  4. #184  
    Hey GregP, the guy who responded to me on whirlpool, goes by the handle jquirke he seems rather knowledgable about cell phone networks, so I would guess his suggestion of the Telstra specific "enabling of U-TRAN Routing Areas" may be a line that could be suggested if you think you can get some assistance.
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

  5. gregp's Avatar
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    #185  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbmgreen View Post
    FWIW I have both a veer and pre3, on 2.2.4 firmware. They reboot under different circumstances. Veer occurs when on a call the pre3 occurs when not on a call, in fact if you stream radio on the pre3 it doesn't reboot.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    Thanks, I'll check that out. I'm having it on both 2.2.3 and 2.2.4 for the Veer with 3500 modem firmware. I don't recall having it with 2.1.2 though.
    FWIW I have both a veer and pre3, on 2.2.4 firmware. They reboot under different circumstances. Veer occurs when on a call the pre3 occurs when not on a call, in fact if you stream radio on the pre3 it doesn't reboot.

    My wife's Veer's 2.1.2 and hasn't had this issue. What's the radio firmware version on your Veer? Compare it with what I posted on the previous page.
  6. gregp's Avatar
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    #186  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbmgreen View Post
    Hey GregP, the guy who responded to me on whirlpool, goes by the handle jquirke he seems rather knowledgable about cell phone networks, so I would guess his suggestion of the Telstra specific "enabling of U-TRAN Routing Areas" may be a line that could be suggested if you think you can get some assistance.
    OK thanks I'll add that to my notes for next time I talk to them. Cheers.
  7. #187  
    I am seeing this too recently. I got used to the sometimes dead battery pull shutdown when traveling mainly.

    That seems to be replaced with this reboot for no good reason stuff.
  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by gregp View Post
    My wife's Veer's 2.1.2 and hasn't had this issue. What's the radio firmware version on your Veer? Compare it with what I posted on the previous page.
    2.2.3/2.2.4 runs on BU2.5.00 (3500).

    The Veer only (or mainly) seems to have the reboots on-call.

    Either:
    -Usually when dialing (it rings 1 time at the other side, then shuts off).
    -On call (less frequently, but had this happening only in the last week or so, not before).
  9. #189  
    Quote Originally Posted by Herrie View Post
    2.2.3/2.2.4 runs on BU2.5.00 (3500).

    The Veer only (or mainly) seems to have the reboots on-call.

    Either:
    -Usually when dialing (it rings 1 time at the other side, then shuts off).
    ..........
    That's exactly what I have on my P3. However, before the boot comes the black screen without any response, and then after awhile the boot. Not always but frequently like onece in every 5 -10 calls.
  10. #190  
    I notice the people with the problem seem to be in SA and WA, is anyone from Sydney having this problem...I know I am not....perhaps that might give some additional clue as to the cause due to a regional change to the Telstra network??? ...just a thought.

    -- Chris
  11. #191  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmcrae1 View Post
    I notice the people with the problem seem to be in SA and WA, is anyone from Sydney having this problem...I know I am not....perhaps that might give some additional clue as to the cause due to a regional change to the Telstra network??? ...just a thought.

    -- Chris
    Hey Chris, I am from Sydney, and am having this issue, but mine started later than the western ones, only noticed it in the last couple of weeks!
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

  12. #192  
    Some more info from the same user

    user #22406 • 317 posts
    jquirke
    http://whrl.pl/RdbnHq
    posted Yesterday at 9:32 pm

    Had a quick look at the crash report.

    It's meaningless without a dump of the stack, code and other machine state. But gleaning some info, the task "RRC" crashed, which is likely the RRC handling code (radio resource control – layer 3 of the UMTS protocol stack).

    There is something probably in an RRC message it didn't like, or the RRC state machine got confused. I'm guessing a buffer overflow occurred here perhaps, because the stack pointer is out of limits. Page fault occurred, which means maybe the buffer overflowed into saved registers from the caller, which some other code then tried to dereference?

    It would be interesting nonetheless to see the code at the LR address. Anyway, isn't the manufacturer supposed to be analysing these? That's the whole point of crash reports...

    On the bright side, you may have discovered a way to pwn some of these devices

    User #424180 • 2395 posts
    Trust Me Follow Me
    http://whrl.pl/RdbnNZ
    posted Yesterday at 10:04 pm

    jquirke writes...
    There is something probably in an RRC message it didn't like, or the RRC state machine got confused. I'm guessing a buffer overflow occurred here perhaps, because the stack pointer is out of limits.


    Best guess here: Maybe Telstra have configured the network in a way pushing the UE to the 505-1 UMTS 2100 layer? And it's crashing the baseband. Mmmm

    User #22406 • 317 posts
    jquirke
    Forum Regular

    http://whrl.pl/RdbnQg

    posted Yesterday at 10:16 pm
    edited soon afterwards
    Trust Me Follow Me writes...
    Best guess here: Maybe Telstra have configured the network in a way pushing the UE to the 505-1 UMTS 2100 layer? And it's crashing the baseband. Mmmm


    It will be something really obscure. The RRC protocol used in UTRAN is *SO* complex (RRC alone is 2000+ pages) with so many options and future/backward compatibility-isms and possibilities it does not surprise me in the least that some rarely used option or combination of options is flushing out a baseband crash.

    Most implementations would use an ASN.1 compiler to generate the RRC parsing code, so the bug is likely semantic, rather than syntactic (i.e. unlike the iPhone's TMSI overflow exploit).
    Last edited by dbmgreen; 05/13/2012 at 06:06 PM.
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

  13. #193  
    I wonder whether with open web OS HP would have to be across these sorts of problems or not?
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

  14. gregp's Avatar
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    #194  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbmgreen View Post
    I wonder whether with open web OS HP would have to be across these sorts of problems or not?
    I reckon it'd be up to the phone manufacturer to sort out those sorts of issues as much as it's Samsung's responsibility, not Google's to fix firmware issues on the Galaxy. However I expect the manufacturer would probably need to liaise with HP for a new OTA update built for that specific set of firmware to fix the bug.
  15. #195  
    Quote Originally Posted by hewball View Post
    ive now managed to lock one of my pre3's to only use 850mhz in the firmware ill see how it goes overnight, i think having the phone plugged into USB for debug will stop it crashing as ive not had it crash yet while on power
    Not sure if this helps, but mine crashed while on power Saturday morning. I also suspect it's happened before while charging overnight, but this is the first time I've actually seen it. I should also note that the battery was at 100%, so it may not have actually been charging at the time, even though it was plugged in.
  16. #196  
    dogbert seems to have knowledge of qualcoms modems? Wonder if he has any take on this?
    Last edited by dbmgreen; 05/14/2012 at 06:21 PM.
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

  17. #197  
    I had frequent reboots as well, but they were only Luna restarts. Happened while speaking on the phone (the phonecall could be continued while the phone rebooted. Happened when starting "Messages" app. Happened while it just lay on the table an no one touched it.
    After 2.2.4 update it got better for some weeks. Now it is even worse.
    The phone smells funny. Mobile Hotspot and Freetether don't work. When WiFi is on, the battery is flat within 2 -4 hours and the phone gets warm.
    A few weeks ago the "vol+" key didn't work anymore. I doctored it but that didn't help.
    Some days later the "Vol-" key didn't work anymore.

    I called the chat. The guy took up my complaints and told me my Chat-ID and asked me to send pictures of the phone to an email-adress, he provided. They wanted to check first, if the phone has any signs of misuse or ha obvious hardware defects from falling down or so. He told me, I would be contacted afterwards.
    As my phone is in prime condition (basically like new), i made the pics and sent them.

    This is now nearly 3 weeks ago. I have not yet got any reaction.

    A shame. A real shame. WebOS is great, the community is great, but most of the other things around WebOS suck.
    So far so bad.
    War doesn't prove who's right, only who's left...
  18. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by dbmgreen View Post
    Some more info from the same user

    user #22406 • 317 posts
    jquirke
    http://whrl.pl/RdbnHq
    posted Yesterday at 9:32 pm

    Had a quick look at the crash report.

    It's meaningless without a dump of the stack, code and other machine state. But gleaning some info, the task "RRC" crashed, which is likely the RRC handling code (radio resource control – layer 3 of the UMTS protocol stack).

    [........deleted...............]

    .
    Are these crash reports prehaps helpfull? This was taken after a crash occurring in the middle of a phone call. Most times my P3-EU/Fr crashes after one or 2 rings, not within a phone call.

    I collected a number of these reports after a crash. The reports have 'modem panic dump' and 'modem panic payload' in the file names (but also linux minicore, lumberjack and **** Error). The reports reside in /var/log/reports/librdx but seem to disappear after a while.
    Attached Files Attached Files
  19. #199  
    Quote Originally Posted by cmcrae1 View Post
    I notice the people with the problem seem to be in SA and WA, is anyone from Sydney having this problem...I know I am not....perhaps that might give some additional clue as to the cause due to a regional change to the Telstra network??? ...just a thought.

    -- Chris
    I'm in Sydney and am having the problem. Although it seems worse in different areas.
    Siobhán

    Palm III, Treo 600/650/680/750, Pre, Pre3, AT&T Pre3, tp 4G, tp 64GB.

    I am an HP Employee. I am not associated in anyway with the development of webOS or associated devices. Opinions expressed in this post are my own and do not in any way represent HP or Palm in any official manner. Any implications derived from my posts are the result of my own point of view and do not indicate any intention or evidence of past, present or future activity or plans of the aforementioned HP or Palm.
  20. #200  
    Quote Originally Posted by siobhanellis View Post
    I'm in Sydney and am having the problem. Although it seems worse in different areas.
    No one has been really specific so far, but the problem of the Pre3 rebooting randomly WHEN NOT ON CALLS, seems to only be occurring on the telstra network.

    The explanation suggested by a umts engineer on whirlpool, seems quite plausible, just wonder why no other devices with the same processor/modem combination aren't experiencing the same thing?
    HP200LX->Treo270->Treo600->Treo650->Treo680->Centro->iPhone3G->
    Treo680->TreoPro->iPhone3GS->PalmPre->HPPre2->HPVeer 2.2.3->HPPre3

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