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  1. cgk
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    #41  
    Quote Originally Posted by koolkid09 View Post
    Yea, I heard it. I was going to make a thread about it, but things probably would have gotten out of hand here on Precentral.
    Topolsky was a really big booster of WebOS but he seems to have completely given up - in the last podcast the most telling quote was

    What is the value add for the person who is going to adopt WebOS? Oh it's an elegant operating system? well guess what nobody cares, nobody cares. And I'm taking as a guy who loved WebOS and still does have a lot of affection for it but what would the value of it be? They are going to use it in printers? That is where WebOS is heading.
    JustJC and koolkid09 like this.
  2. #42  
    I'm a pre3 owner and I'm loving it. The keyboard is brilliant. People is asking too much of a phone and home button is so 2005..
  3. #43  
    I think his point is that even though pre hardware build improves with every iteration it's still the same old same old. Moreover, the software is only incrementally different/better/faster than the original (if that). After 2+ years the public expects more than some relatively small tweaks and a slightly larger screen. I think the review was fair from the perspective of someone that's not a fan...
    Well I guess there's no other major player who this paragraph could apply to....*cough*iphone*cough*

    I didn't think the review was entirely off, but a few things didn't ring true (camera for instance - I think it's excellent and I'm a DSLR owner). Kinda sounded like he'd made his mind up before the review even started.
    HP Pre 3 (UK)
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    #44  
    I picked up a Pre 3 solely on the basis of my experience of the TP. And I love it. The physical keyboard is a joy. The OS, well its webOS - lovely.

    I have used many mobiles over the years, and to be sure the Pre 3 isn't going to be the last. I used to be a Nokia fan, solid hardware and years of OS polish in Symbian. However in the last couple of years I finally plunged into the smartphone thing. That meant iPhone, Android and most recently WP7. So with those phones comprising of my limited experience, I find the Pre 3 is a good phone. The virtual keyboards were always a pain, and I sorely missed the physical keyboards of the Nokia. Pre 3 gives me that back, in spades. In fact I feel the Pre 3 strikes a nice balance between modern smartphone and previous hardware wisdom.

    Lastly, I think to myself, will the webOS die a death like Symbian with no apps worth looking at? Maybe. For now I'm still marvelling and grateful the dev community continues as it does. And I check the catalogue often and there is always new apps. So I'm app happy. Doesn't take much to please me.

    I retained my Android phone as a backup, in case I damage or lose my Pre 3. But I haven't turned it on in over 2 months, since I started using the Pre 3. Sure, there are apps that exist on the iphone and 'droid that I wish the Pre 3 had. And there's a bug here and there. But it hasn't been a deal breaker. Love the Pre 3.

    My 2 cents, peace :-P


    -- Sent from my HP TouchPad using Communities
    lukeaddison and giggles like this.
  5. #45  
    Quote Originally Posted by tholap View Post
    Not a fair review. The Pre3 is *much* better that this review makes it sound like.

    Lack of innovation? Two points:
    1: What ground-breaking innovation is expected here that other phones actually did bring out? Anti-gravity? Warp-comm? Silly-3D that hardly anybody actually wants?
    Oh IDK, how about:

    Camera that shoots 1080p video and quality 8mp stills.
    A screen that is higher resolution that phones released years ago.
    HDMI out or equivalent.
    A phone that is actually thin.
    An OS that has navigation, voice to text, voice search, etc etc etc
    An OS which is polished and not buggy.
    A OS that actually utilizes its hardware effectively instead of continually being slow even when overclocked and patched to hell. Compare browser speed with any phone released in the last 1-2 years. Bet ya its slower.


    I mean come on. I get that WebOS people are BEYOND biased as they will overlook literally everything as long as there are cards and synergy, but how could you even type that with a straight face?
    Last edited by muyoso; 09/25/2011 at 12:29 PM.
  6. cvendra's Avatar
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    #46  
    Not like engadget. Either biased, too used to other OS or inexperienced reviewer.
  7. #47  
    First, let me get this out of the way - Engadget does have a bias, especially when it comes to the latest Android or iOS toys - that's where their core readers can feel all warm and fuzzy over their most recent purchase. This is evidenced by their dropping of their number-based review system... it had the running joke of "New Android device = 7 or 8, new iPhone = 9, everything else = 7 or lower". You could guess their rating score based on the title of the article alone.

    That said, I think the Engadget article was heavy-handed, especially for a device that isn't being officially released. It's nice for them to offer an article based on their experience, but it's massively unfair to label the article as a true "review"... there's plenty of other devices that they've given gushingly positive reviews to, in spite of actual physical flaws... note the T-Mobile (LG) G2x review:

    The 4-inch WVGA (800 x 480) IPS panel looks good on paper but misses the mark when compared to the competition. Sure, the colors are rich and the viewing angles are wide, but the LCD washes out more than expected in direct sunlight and suffers from a significant amount of backlight leaking out from the edges of the screen, resulting in visible "stains" on solid, dark-colored content. We're also somewhat perplexed as to why LG decided against outfitting this dual-core smartphone with a qHD (960 x 540) display, la Motorola Atrix 4G. Obviously, we're being highly critical here -- most people will be satisfied with the G2x's display, at least until they come across one of Samsung's Super AMOLED-equipped devices. Another item that requires improvement is the screen's capacitive touch layer, which is slightly less sensitive than on most other phones. Light touches don't always register, and while this is easily remedied by applying more pressure, it's rather disconcerting -- especially for a handset that's otherwise well designed.
    Not counting Google's Nexus phones, the G2x is the best Android handset that's graced our pockets. It strikes an impressive balance between powerful, quality hardware, and stock, undiluted software.
    Emphasis mine... I take all Engadget reviews with a grain of salt after reading that one.

    I'm a newbie to webOS... but I've got the experience to know that the Engadget article was a hatchet job. I've owned and used several different types of smartphones - BlackBerry, Nokia S60v3, S60v5, Symbian^3, Maemo 5, Motorola and HTC Androids (from Cupcake through FroYo). I picked up a Veer just this past week, and I've been blown away by how functional the OS is. Simply stated, I love being able to flick from one app to the next seamlessly - S^3 is close with its multitasking (hold the "app" button, and then flick between live previews), but its not as fluid. I use my phone to keep track of my life - PIM functions, and the ability to move between them easily, are key; webOS is second only to BlackBerry in that regard (and it can be argued that RIM got its inspiration from PalmOS). Internet browsing is also important, and webOS handles it with aplomb - right up there with Android's browser. I just don't think any of the complaints Engadget brought up for the Pre3 are really justified when you take the Pre3 for what it is - a business-oriented smartphone. If only HP released the Pre3 at the same time as the TouchPad (and for a better price), I think we'd be seeing a more positive end result.

    Now if I could only convince the wife that I need a Pre3... I'd have one in a heartbeat!
    fxspec06 likes this.
  8. #48  
    What is the value add for the person who is going to adopt WebOS? Oh it's an elegant operating system? well guess what nobody cares, nobody cares. And I'm taking as a guy who loved WebOS and still does have a lot of affection for it but what would the value of it be? They are going to use it in printers? That is where WebOS is heading.
    Exactly what I and a lot of people have been thinking.
  9. #49  
    Quote Originally Posted by muyoso View Post
    Oh IDK, how about:

    Camera that shoots 1080p video and quality 8mp stills.
    A screen that is higher resolution that phones released years ago.
    HDMI out or equivalent.
    A phone that is actually thin.
    An OS that has navigation, voice to text, voice search, etc etc etc
    An OS which is polished and not buggy.
    A OS that actually utilizes its hardware effectively instead of continually being slow even when overclocked and patched to hell. Compare browser speed with any phone released in the last 1-2 years. Bet ya its slower.


    I mean come on. I get that WebOS people are BEYOND biased as they will overlook literally everything as long as there are cards and synergy, but how could you even type that with a straight face?
    How many of those items on your list are really relevant, beyond bullet points for the spec sheet?

    -Camera that shoots 1080p video and quality 8mp stills. Most video shot from phones are quick, 15-20 second clips, with enough shakiness to induce vomiting. I'd bet you'd be hard-pressed to see the difference between 720p and 1080p footage shot on a cellphone - without a stabilizer mount and a high-res monitor.

    -A screen that is higher resolution that phones released years ago. Higher resolution screens imply higher pixel density... higher DPI requires larger screens to see a marked difference. With the trend towards 4.5" and 5" screens, you either need huge pockets to carry the thing, or a separate carrying solution - now you're into netbook and tablet territory. 800x480 on a 3.6 display is plenty-good for a lot of people.

    -HDMI out or equivalent. Full-size HDMI would be great, but I'm not aware of any current phone with a full-size port. My Nokia N8 has HDMI, and I have to carry an adapter and/or cable to use it... so I don't, and I imagine most other people don't, either. Handy for movies at the hotel, but certainly not a "killer feature".

    -A phone that is actually thin. Matter of taste. My wife's Galaxy S feels flimsy and plastic-ky, even though it's supermodel-thin. My Veer feels good in my hand - small, yet solid; my BlackBerry was chunky but felt great to hold and type with.

    -An OS that has navigation, voice to text, voice search, etc etc etc. Let's see... there's NDrive, AT&T Navigator (TeleNav), Google Maps... As for voice search, I haven't found a use-case for it besides "Hey, look what my phone can do!". My voice searches on my old MyTouch 3G were rarely on the mark; Just Type is miles beyond the goofy voice search. I'll admit, text-to-speech is handy. and voice dialing is a must... but webOS (and virtually every other mobile OS on the planet) has voice dialing.

    -An OS which is polished and not buggy. "Polish" is subjective. Android, as an OS, has different amounts of "polish", based on its skinning... and that introduces bugs, too. TouchWiz has some look/feel inconsistencies, MotoBlur is just awful with it's "custom widgets" (and buggier than a candy bar left on the sidewalk), HTC Sense is actually pretty good. I could argue that the "cards" metaphor is extremely polished, but that's my opinion.

    -A OS that actually utilizes its hardware effectively instead of continually being slow even when overclocked and patched to hell. Hold it right there... if Android was so efficient, why do people complain about marginal battery life? Why do Android users flash their handsets to Cyanogenmod's latest-and-greatest if their handset already worked great?

    Geeks treat their gadgets like gearheads treat their muscle cars - and both groups miss the point that, outside of a few niches, these products weren't made for them alone. The Pre3, and other webOS devices, weren't designed to "blow the socks" off the enthusiasts - they were meant for John and Jane Average to get work done and communicate effectively. It's up to the webOS enthusiasts to trick out the Pre, Touchpad and Veer - much like Honda Civic enthusiasts trick out their "economy compacts".
  10. #50  
    Quote Originally Posted by jvanhou View Post
    I'm a newbie to webOS... but I've got the experience to know that the Engadget article was a hatchet job.
    To what end? webOS is dead. The product they reviewed isn't even really available unless you overpay for one of the units that somehow snuck out.
  11. #51  
    Look, if you think the Engadget review was harsh, just wait till you see the review from Josh Topolsky. He's a well known Webos fan who is rightfully frustrated with HP and WebOS. I love Webos, I have a Pre 3 and I love it, but the stagering amount of missed opportunities for the OS and hardware are still frustrating.
  12. #52  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    To what end? webOS is dead. The product they reviewed isn't even really available unless you overpay for one of the units that somehow snuck out.
    dead or not that doesnt somehow invalidate the hardware were clutching right now and enjoying, the pre3 is a good phone, pretty much any review i read will typically have in it somewhere "lack of apps" and the rest of their review doesnt really matter.

    i have zero issues with my pre3, its a good phone, feels good, works well, battery life a damned sight better with preware on it ofc, apps im not too fussed about, tbh i have a phone that does what a phone should and more, just because the phones not made anymore doesnt somehow magically make my phone useless overnight.
    jemojc likes this.
  13. #53  
    Quote Originally Posted by geekpeter View Post
    dead or not that doesnt somehow invalidate the hardware were clutching right now and enjoying, the pre3 is a good phone, pretty much any review i read will typically have in it somewhere "lack of apps" and the rest of their review doesnt really matter.

    i have zero issues with my pre3, its a good phone, feels good, works well, battery life a damned sight better with preware on it ofc, apps im not too fussed about, tbh i have a phone that does what a phone should and more, just because the phones not made anymore doesnt somehow magically make my phone useless overnight.
    The important thing is that you enjoy your phone. Who cares what other people think?
  14. #54  
    Quote Originally Posted by jvanhou View Post
    How many of those items on your list are really relevant, beyond bullet points for the spec sheet?
    All of them.

    -Camera that shoots 1080p video and quality 8mp stills. Most video shot from phones are quick, 15-20 second clips, with enough shakiness to induce vomiting. I'd bet you'd be hard-pressed to see the difference between 720p and 1080p footage shot on a cellphone - without a stabilizer mount and a high-res monitor.
    Newer phones have image stabalization, especially ones released in the last 6 months. 1080P is not mandatory, but your lens and camera system has to be high quality.
    -A screen that is higher resolution that phones released years ago. Higher resolution screens imply higher pixel density... higher DPI requires larger screens to see a marked difference. With the trend towards 4.5" and 5" screens, you either need huge pockets to carry the thing, or a separate carrying solution - now you're into netbook and tablet territory. 800x480 on a 3.6 display is plenty-good for a lot of people.
    4.5 and 5 inch screens are netbook and tablet territory . . . . Ooooooook? No. Also, I had a 3.6 inch screen with 480x800 resolution 3 years ago with a windows mobile phone. I think its time to move on.
    -HDMI out or equivalent. Full-size HDMI would be great, but I'm not aware of any current phone with a full-size port. My Nokia N8 has HDMI, and I have to carry an adapter and/or cable to use it... so I don't, and I imagine most other people don't, either. Handy for movies at the hotel, but certainly not a "killer feature".
    It is a killer feature for many people and its a really cool feature for a phone to have.
    -An OS that has navigation, voice to text, voice search, etc etc etc. Let's see... there's NDrive, AT&T Navigator (TeleNav), Google Maps... As for voice search, I haven't ound a use-case for it besides "Hey, look what my phone can do!". My voice searches on my old MyTouch 3G were rarely on the mark; Just Type is miles beyond the goofy voice search. I'll admit, text-to-speech is handy. and voice dialing is a must... but webOS (and virtually every other mobile OS on the planet) has voice dialing.
    Have you ever used Android? I want to call walmart, so I hold down the search key on my phone and then say "call walmart" and within a second its dialing my local walmart. What does WebOS have to compete with that? Just Type? No looking up the number. No typing in my zip code in the browser to find the number of the local store. Just two words and I am connected. THAT is a killer feature and it makes me feel like I am using a modern OS.
    -A OS that actually utilizes its hardware effectively instead of continually being slow even when overclocked and patched to hell. Hold it right there... if Android was so efficient, why do people complain about marginal battery life? Why do Android users flash their handsets to Cyanogenmod's latest-and-greatest if their handset already worked great?
    Not just comparing it to Android, iOS is very optimized for the hardware as well. And iOS is a much better comparison because its one company in control of hardware and software. Seriously its embarassing that my 800mhz single core iPad destroys my 1.5ghz dual core Touchpad on the same wifi network with regards to browsing speed. Shows me that HP didn't optimize anything. Also, my 1ghz single core Android phone beats it as well. And this is with all the patches I could have installed, and with flash off on all devices to make it fair.
  15. #55  
    I was really irked by these lines in the wrap up:

    webOS 2.2, much like the pre-NoDo build of Windows Phone 7, is simply too far behind Android and iOS in too many basic aspects. No threaded email app? Unreliable syncs? A stagnant app market? Middle-of-the-road hardware options? Not exactly a fine list of accolades.
    To tackle these questions one by one: nitpicky, not for all/most users, valid argument and not a software issue. It's always bugged me that things like synergy (especially with messaging) and notifications are just huge game changers when it comes to how you use a cell phone, but they never really receive much attention outside of webOS. Yet, if iOS or Android gets some half-baked attempt at these features, it's considered a revelation.

    It's as if all of webOS's positive aspects count for nothing, and all of its negatives count twice.
    fxspec06 likes this.
  16. #56  
    Quote Originally Posted by mjuliano View Post
    I was really irked by these lines in the wrap up:



    To tackle these questions one by one: nitpicky, not for all/most users, valid argument and not a software issue. It's always bugged me that things like synergy (especially with messaging) and notifications are just huge game changers when it comes to how you use a cell phone, but they never really receive much attention outside of webOS. Yet, if iOS or Android gets some half-baked attempt at these features, it's considered a revelation.

    It's as if all of webOS's positive aspects count for nothing, and all of its negatives count twice.
    That's because most people don't care to be connected in that way. Take a look at the iOS app on Facebook for example; very few people actually use the contact sync feature, which in essence, works identically to how Facebook synergy works on webOS, it's just less integrated.

    The average Joe (or Sally) just download, open, use and close apps, make calls and text message a lot. All of the other stuff, throwing cards, synergy, etc. your average person could care less about. That's why Apple wins because they cater to the lowest denominator; Android also does this but it gives the flexibility to do more if one wants, but at its very core, in many ways, it is iOS like in the sense it gives the average person the same flow or sense of use.
  17. #57  
    When it comes to what people actually care about, the negatives of webOS have always outweighed the positives. The poor sales of the Pre, Pixi, Veer, and TouchPad (pre-clearance sale) reflects that.
  18. giggles's Avatar
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    #58  
    Quote Originally Posted by nappy View Post
    When it comes to what people actually care about, the negatives of webOS have always outweighed the positives. The poor sales of the Pre, Pixi, Veer, and TouchPad (pre-clearance sale) reflects that.
    Sales dont mean anything? Poor marketing can kill the best device in the world. The touchpad relfects both of those points.

    The Cons never have outweighed the pros. In its time that each phone was released they were a competitor but just slightly behind the curb with awful marketing. Any owner of a webos phones today a pre2,veer,pre3 can tell you that their friends and colleges are blown away by what webos and the phone can accomplish. My hardcore android and iphone friends **** their pants when I show them what I can do with my pre 2. Especially with the nice frills I attach with preware and webos internals.
  19. #59  
    Quote Originally Posted by giggles View Post
    Sales dont mean anything? Poor marketing can kill the best device in the world. The touchpad relfects both of those points.

    The Cons never have outweighed the pros. In its time that each phone was released they were a competitor but just slightly behind the curb with awful marketing. Any owner of a webos phones today a pre2,veer,pre3 can tell you that their friends and colleges are blown away by what webos and the phone can accomplish. My hardcore android and iphone friends **** their pants when I show them what I can do with my pre 2. Especially with the nice frills I attach with preware and webos internals.
    I thought the Touchpad was marketed quite well. Not the best approach, IMO, but they did put quite a bit of money and effort in trying. For a while, I was seeing Touchpad ads everywhere: television, newspapers, ads on websites, booths in stores, etc. They tried, people just weren't biting.

    It's the basic features and how inept and unreliable those features are that the webOS faithful seem to often look past. Yeah, SMS often locks up, battery life is terrible, BUT, we have the best multitasking of any platform!

    The fact is, webOS does a lot of cool things, but nothing great. It provides no real compelling reason for one to switch. It basically boils down to one falling in love with its UI and choosing it over its other glaring faults.
  20. giggles's Avatar
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    #60  
    Quote Originally Posted by barkerja View Post
    I thought the Touchpad was marketed quite well. Not the best approach, IMO, but they did put quite a bit of money and effort in trying. For a while, I was seeing Touchpad ads everywhere: television, newspapers, ads on websites, booths in stores, etc. They tried, people just weren't biting.

    It's the basic features and how inept and unreliable those features are that the webOS faithful seem to often look past. Yeah, SMS often locks up, battery life is terrible, BUT, we have the best multitasking of any platform!

    The fact is, webOS does a lot of cool things, but nothing great. It provides no real compelling reason for one to switch. It basically boils down to one falling in love with its UI and choosing it over its other glaring faults.

    Um hold up did you just say the touchpad was marketed quite well.. Are you mad? A soft release. We're done.

    And my SMS dosent ever lock up. My battery life is perfect with mode switcher/screenstate. anything else you can point out?

    iOS and Android may have some extra features more then us but we have some pretty heavy hitting features that they dont come close to having or that is as streamsly and heavily intergrated(just because they some what have it or it kinda works dosent cut it.) I simply get stuff done faster on my phone then someone with a iphone. Example: I ran this test with 3 friends 2 with android 1 with a iphone 4 and me with my pre2. Test was to post a fb status,message each of the 3 respectively, schedule dinner, check in at school, tweet the definition of amoeba from wikipedia. and take a picture of a object and upload it to facebook/twitter and another file sharing service. all accomplish in whatever means we had at our disposal.

    I beat all 3 with time to spare. just typed definition of amoeba copied it tweeted/fbed. attached a pic using quickpost done. Messaged all 3 them the definition of it using the mssgeing app and attached the pic that I took with my camera app.while I opened facebooked checked in and the calender where I added dinner while I uploaded the photo I took to pohotbucket.. Guy with the photon came after me and the iphone got dead last. all 3 exp users. My phone didnt lock up or lag. pre2, muffled logging,jstop, oc'ed for battery use and ondemand. Got the job done and efficiently.

    I had and iphone 3gs btw, and I have a Evo 4g.Power user on both and I choose to use neither Because my pre2 is faster. Perfect size and I dont need some garbage slow apps.
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