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  1. Mize's Avatar
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    #121  
    Thanks Sanjay
    Original Palm Pilot+modem > Kyocera QCP 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 650 > HTC TyTN (ugh) > Palm Centro > Nokia E75 > Nokia E72 + iPad2 > HP Veer + TouchPad + UK Pre3 + AT&T Pre3 > iPad2 + ATT Pre3 + Nokia N9 > Galaxy S3 > Pre3 > Nexus 4 > Blackberry Q10 + Galaxy Note 8.0
  2.    #122  
    Same here. I'm not sure whether these changes have anything to do with enabling the 850 MHz band or just assigning a default carrier (ie; default band to use during power on boot up or coming out of airplane mode). I thought the device tokens defined or wrote the default carrier ROW, ATT or ..... whatever.

    Time to delve into the flasher for the Gaxaxy i9000 S to hopefully find something definitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mize View Post
    Okay, I've compared the /usr/bin/modem/palm_nv_items.txt from my AT&T Veer with this ROW Pre3. Here is where they define character in the Veer:

    #PALM NV ,Set Default Carrier to AT&T for now.

    8001,NV_PALM_LPM_MODE_I,1
    8500,NV_PALM_UIM_POWER_DISABLE_I,0
    8502,NV_PALM_CARRIER_I,2
    8503,NV_PALM_INTERNAL_TEST_OPTIONS_I,1,0,0,0

    and here is that same section in the pre3:

    #PALM NV ,Set Default Carrier to ROW.

    8001,NV_PALM_LPM_MODE_I,1
    8500,NV_PALM_UIM_POWER_DISABLE_I,0
    8502,NV_PALM_CARRIER_I,0
    8503,NV_PALM_INTERNAL_TEST_OPTIONS_I,0,0,0,0

    I've boldfaced the only difference.

    I have no idea if this one line alone tells the ROM what modes to enable on the radio/modem, but it's a thought...
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
  3.    #123  
    I wanted to share with everyone my experience from this evening. After Mize and I had both reviewed the modem flashers for the AT&T Veer 4G and the EU Pre 3 side by side, I felt it was safe enough to attempt to flash my Pre 3's modem using the flash image designed for the AT&T Veer 4G.

    After flashing and then doing a battery pull power off reset, the Pre 3 comes up showing a 3G icon, no H+ icon and when I run PmModemUpdater -v, it still lists the modem hardware model as EU.

    There's one interesting thing to note. Calls to the Network and Internet services seem to run twice as fast after the flashing. Maybe its my imagination. I'll need to run a speedtest tomorrow I guess. Web Pages open up immediately. When switching modes from 3G to 2G and visa versa, the E and 3G icons come up immediately. Before flashing the modem there was usually a second or two delay when switching modes.

    One possibility I just thought of is it could be because the Veer's modem flasher sets the default network to AT&T whereas the Pre 3 EU modem default is ROW. Even without the 850 MHz band I suspect that would help speed things up a little for Pre 3's on the AT&T network..

    I'm now wondering if these modems are in fact made without the ability to use 850 MHz bands. It's going to take someone far more experienced than I to get to the bottom of this.



    Calling it a night for now.
    TTB
    Last edited by TopTongueBarry; 09/04/2011 at 04:12 AM.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
    dadueler likes this.
  4. #124  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Robitaille View Post
    There's 2 different palm_nv_items.txt files in that ipk. One that installs to /usr/lib/modem/palm_nv_items.txt and another within /usr/lib/modem/mantarayumts.tar.gz


    FYI, you can install 7zip (version 4.65 specifically) and that'll work to open .ipk files.

    Maybe a dumb question, but on the hardware size of things, would the UK triband 3G even be capable of adjusting for 850MHz 3G?
    The Pre 3 is tri-band UMTS. Different hardware for 850 (UNA) and 900 (UEU). Not only does the modem chipset have an efuse to select this at manufacturing time, the external power amplifier and antenna circuitry also differs for the two different models. You can't change those things with software.

    -- Rod
    WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer
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  5. #125  
    Darn it!
  6. Mize's Avatar
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    #126  
    ah well. It does seem as though changing the default carrier has some benefits.
    Original Palm Pilot+modem > Kyocera QCP 6035 > Kyocera 7135 > Treo 650 > HTC TyTN (ugh) > Palm Centro > Nokia E75 > Nokia E72 + iPad2 > HP Veer + TouchPad + UK Pre3 + AT&T Pre3 > iPad2 + ATT Pre3 + Nokia N9 > Galaxy S3 > Pre3 > Nexus 4 > Blackberry Q10 + Galaxy Note 8.0
  7. #127  
    Yeah. Hopefully that can be put together in a patch? (Forgive the non-technical lack of comprehension.)
  8. #128  
    Is Rod essentially saying that this effort to get the Pre 3 to work with the 850MHz is a waste of time unless a Hardware Modification takes place?

    If so then does that mean the Samsung has this hardware built in while the Pre 3 does not?

    Thanks.
  9. #129  
    Quote Originally Posted by rwhitby View Post
    The Pre 3 is tri-band UMTS. Different hardware for 850 (UNA) and 900 (UEU). Not only does the modem chipset have an efuse to select this at manufacturing time, the external power amplifier and antenna circuitry also differs for the two different models. You can't change those things with software.

    -- Rod
    Rod, is there any way to confirm the chipset is in fact "efused" and the amplifier is different? I know many people, including myself, don't want to give up on this that easily. Can you compare the Pre3 hardware to that of the modem chipsets in the samsungs/androids discussed earlier? Thanks. Long time reader, first time post.
  10. gaytheist's Avatar
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    #130  
    Quote Originally Posted by TopTongueBarry View Post
    I wanted to share with everyone my experience from this evening. After Mize and I had both reviewed the modem flashers for the AT&T Veer 4G and the EU Pre 3 side by side, I felt it was safe enough to attempt to flash my Pre 3's modem using the flash image designed for the AT&T Veer 4G.

    After flashing and then doing a battery pull power off reset, the Pre 3 comes up showing a 3G icon, no H+ icon and when I run PmModemUpdater -v, it still lists the modem hardware model as EU.

    There's one interesting thing to note. Calls to the Network and Internet services seem to run twice as fast after the flashing. Maybe its my imagination. I'll need to run a speedtest tomorrow I guess. Web Pages open up immediately. When switching modes from 3G to 2G and visa versa, the E and 3G icons come up immediately. Before flashing the modem there was usually a second or two delay when switching modes.

    One possibility I just thought of is it could be because the Veer's modem flasher sets the default network to AT&T whereas the Pre 3 EU modem default is ROW. Even without the 850 MHz band I suspect that would help speed things up a little for Pre 3's on the AT&T network..

    I'm now wondering if these modems are in fact made without the ability to use 850 MHz bands. It's going to take someone far more experienced than I to get to the bottom of this.



    Calling it a night for now.
    TTB
    If, at some point in the future, we're able to get 850MHz working on the Pre3, what's stopping it from getting "4G"/HSPA+? You guys keep referring to 850 giving us the possibility of 3G... why wouldn't 4G be possible with 850? Just curious

    EDIT: Also, will 4G ever be a possibility on 1900MHz? I'm assuming not, but worth asking.
    Last edited by gaytheist; 09/04/2011 at 03:33 PM.
  11. #131  
    Is there anybody in the community that would be more familiar with this? I am very interested too.
  12.    #132  
    - Let's put the discussion on software flashing the EU Pre 3 modem to enable 850 MHz on the device to bed.
    - Rod Whitby has chimed in and given us the facts about the Pre 3 modems.
    - Pre 3 modems (comms boards) are NOT quad band UMTS capable like their sisters and brothers inside the Samsung Galaxy i9000 S.
    - Theres no way software flashing will enable 850 MHz UMTS on the modem inside the EU Pre 3.

    The only way to convert an EU Pre 3 so it will work using both 850 MHz and 1900 MHz UMTS will be a comms board swap. Unfortunately the comms boards that could be used for this purpose were only manufactured for the NA AT&T and NA Rogers Pre 3 devices. No one is expecting these NA Pre 3 devices to ever see the light of day, so it's not worth wasting time speculating if their comms boards might become available. They probably won't!

    Quote Originally Posted by zfrogz View Post
    Is there anybody in the community that would be more familiar with this? I am very interested too.
    There is nobody in the webOS community with more knowledge about this subject than Rod Whitby - WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer.
    Quote Originally Posted by gaytheist View Post
    If, at some point in the future, we're able to get 850MHz working on the Pre3, what's stopping it from getting "4G"/HSPA+? You guys keep referring to 850 giving us the possibility of 3G... why wouldn't 4G be possible with 850? Just curious
    EDIT: Also, will 4G ever be a possibility on 1900MHz? I'm assuming not, but worth asking.
    Finally to answer lingering questions that continue to pop up:
    - 850 MHz on AT&T will give you HSPA+. and 3G
    - (AT&T HSPA+ is only available on 850 MHz along with 3G, 2G edge, and GPRS data.
    - 850 MHz is more robust than 1900 MHz and therefore is more suitable for multiple protocol layering.
    - 1900 Mhz on AT&T will give you 3G, 2G edge, and GPRS data.
    - HSPA+ will not be deployed on the 1900MHz spectrum.

    The push is to deploy 4G LTE on multiple frequency spectrums. I won't bother discussing which spectrums because it is a moot point as far as the Pre 3 is concerned. It's comms board does not support LTE.

    Since there's nothing that can be done to enable HSPA + and the 850 MHz band as a whole on the EU Pre 3, and the device functions pretty doggonne well here in the USA even if limited to 3G on 1900 MHz, I'd say it's about time those of us lucky enough to have an EU Pre 3, sit back and enjoy using it the way it is.
    Last edited by TopTongueBarry; 09/04/2011 at 08:13 PM.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
    Titan078 and Unit 4 like this.
  13. gaytheist's Avatar
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    #133  
    Quote Originally Posted by TopTongueBarry View Post
    - Let's put the discussion on software flashing the EU Pre 3 modem to enable 850 MHz on the device to bed.
    - Rod Whitby has chimed in and given us the facts about the Pre 3 modems.
    - Pre 3 modems (comms boards) are NOT quad band capable like their sisters and brothers inside the Samsung Galaxy i9000 S.
    - Theres no way software flashing will enable 850 MHz on the modem inside the EU Pre 3.

    The only way to convert an EU Pre 3 so it will work using 850 MHz and 1900 MHz will be a comms board swap. Unfortunately the comms boards that could be used for this purpose were only manufactured for the NA AT&T and NA Rogers Pre 3 devices. No one is expecting these NA Pre 3 devices to ever see the light of day, so it's not worth wasting time speculating if their comms boards might become available. They probably won't!



    There is nobody in the webOS community with more knowledge about this subject than Rod Whitby - WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer.



    Finally to answer lingering questions that continue to pop up:
    - 850 MHz on AT&T will give you HSPA+. and 3G
    - (AT&T HSPA+ is only available on 850 MHz along with 3G, 2G edge, and GPRS data.
    - 850 MHz is more robust than 1900 MHz and therefore is more suitable for multiple protocol layering.
    - 1900 Mhz on AT&T will give you 3G, 2G edge, and GPRS data.
    - HSPA+ will not be deployed on the 1900MHz spectrum.

    The push is to deploy 4G LTE on multiple frequency spectrums. I won't bother discussing which spectrums because it is a moot point as far as the Pre 3 is concerned. It's comms board does not support LTE.

    Since there's nothing that can be done to enable HSPA + and the 850 MHz band as a whole on the EU Pre 3, and the device functions pretty doggonne well here in the USA even if limited to 3G on 1900 MHz, I'd say it's about time those of us lucky enough to have an EU Pre 3, sit back and enjoy using it the way it is.
    Thanks much for taking the time to explain all that. I've been deciding whether to get the Veer or the Pre 3, and that information pretty much sealed the deal. I really do appreciate it.

    Also, one more question, if you get the chance. What kind of d/l and u/l speeds are you seeing with the Pre 3? A speedtest screencap would be just great

    Either way, thanks again for the info!
  14. #134  
    Wow. Thanks for the definitive answer. Looks like I'll be moving on to meego or qnx. Long time reader, second and last post.
    Quote Originally Posted by TopTongueBarry View Post
    - Let's put the discussion on software flashing the EU Pre 3 modem to enable 850 MHz on the device to bed.
    - Rod Whitby has chimed in and given us the facts about the Pre 3 modems.
    - Pre 3 modems (comms boards) are NOT quad band UMTS capable like their sisters and brothers inside the Samsung Galaxy i9000 S.
    - Theres no way software flashing will enable 850 MHz UMTS on the modem inside the EU Pre 3.

    The only way to convert an EU Pre 3 so it will work using both 850 MHz and 1900 MHz UMTS will be a comms board swap. Unfortunately the comms boards that could be used for this purpose were only manufactured for the NA AT&T and NA Rogers Pre 3 devices. No one is expecting these NA Pre 3 devices to ever see the light of day, so it's not worth wasting time speculating if their comms boards might become available. They probably won't!



    There is nobody in the webOS community with more knowledge about this subject than Rod Whitby - WebOS Internals and Preware Founder and Developer.


    Finally to answer lingering questions that continue to pop up:
    - 850 MHz on AT&T will give you HSPA+. and 3G
    - (AT&T HSPA+ is only available on 850 MHz along with 3G, 2G edge, and GPRS data.
    - 850 MHz is more robust than 1900 MHz and therefore is more suitable for multiple protocol layering.
    - 1900 Mhz on AT&T will give you 3G, 2G edge, and GPRS data.
    - HSPA+ will not be deployed on the 1900MHz spectrum.

    The push is to deploy 4G LTE on multiple frequency spectrums. I won't bother discussing which spectrums because it is a moot point as far as the Pre 3 is concerned. It's comms board does not support LTE.

    Since there's nothing that can be done to enable HSPA + and the 850 MHz band as a whole on the EU Pre 3, and the device functions pretty doggonne well here in the USA even if limited to 3G on 1900 MHz, I'd say it's about time those of us lucky enough to have an EU Pre 3, sit back and enjoy using it the way it is.
  15. #135  
    I wonder what HP did with all the phones it had made for the ATT network ??
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  16. #136  
    id like to know too
  17. #137  
    Barry, do you think the flashing you did has made any difference what so ever? If so, it would be nice if you could publish instructions for any others to follow suit. Thanks for taking the risk with that and explaining that HSPA+ simply is not possible.
  18.    #138  
    Quote Originally Posted by zfrogz View Post
    Barry, do you think the flashing you did has made any difference what so ever? If so, it would be nice if you could publish instructions for any others to follow suit. Thanks for taking the risk with that and explaining that HSPA+ simply is not possible.
    Although my Pre 3 registers on the AT&T network lightning fast since I flashed the modem, there are inherent risks that go along with flashing your modem. It's possible I may have damaged my chipset and not know it yet.

    If all you want to do is change your default carrier from ROW to AT&T to speed up your network registration, I recommend that you don't flash your Pre 3's modem chipset to do it. I have not tested the following process, however I think it will do the trick. You may want to make a copy of your /usr/bin/modem/palm_nv_items.txt file first.

    1 - edit /usr/lib/modem/palm_nv_items.txt on your pre 3 (or copy it to your pc using WOSQI, edit it then copy it back to its original location on your Pre 3.
    2 - change these two lines from:
    8502,NV_PALM_CARRIER_I,0
    8503,NV_PALM_INTERNAL_TEST_OPTIONS_I,0,0,0,0

    3 - to this:
    8502,NV_PALM_CARRIER_I,2
    8503,NV_PALM_INTERNAL_TEST_OPTIONS_I,1,0,0,0

    4 - Do not add any extra characters
    *** Make sure to save your changes

    5 - Restart your Pre 3

    TTB

    EDIT: I have now had an chance to check and my /usr/lib/modem/palm_nv_items.txt file does contain the change noted above, confirming the change works. If you want to replace the entire section here it is - changes in bold:

    #PALM NV ,Set Default Carrier to AT&T for now.
    8001,NV_PALM_LPM_MODE_I,1
    8500,NV_PALM_UIM_POWER_DISABLE_I,0
    8502,NV_PALM_CARRIER_I,2
    8503,NV_PALM_INTERNAL_TEST_OPTIONS_I,1,0,0,0
    Last edited by TopTongueBarry; 09/13/2011 at 12:23 PM.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
    dadueler likes this.
  19. #139  
    If anyone else has success with this, please let us know. I'll probably try when my phone comes in about a week. (That gives me time to figure out what WOSQI is!)
  20.    #140  
    I have now had an chance to check and my /usr/lib/modem/palm_nv_items.txt file does contain the change noted above, confirming the change works. If you want to replace the entire section here it is - changes in bold:

    #PALM NV ,Set Default Carrier to AT&T for now.
    8001,NV_PALM_LPM_MODE_I,1
    8500,NV_PALM_UIM_POWER_DISABLE_I,0
    8502,NV_PALM_CARRIER_I,2
    8503,NV_PALM_INTERNAL_TEST_OPTIONS_I,1,0,0,0
    Last edited by TopTongueBarry; 09/13/2011 at 12:23 PM.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and donít necessarily represent AT&Tís positions, strategies or opinions.
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